Well this is from the "Ryanair" passenger charter

Whether you can believe a word that O'Leary says is another matter..but one thing is sure. Ryanair are not a "pricier" airline...

But Jetliner... the fact that airlines put "get out of jail free" clauses in their contract is exactly my point. Airlines operate the most outregeously one sided contracts which are unfair and abusive, and pay politicians millions to keep their legal protection to allow them to do so...

This makes my point.. if a customer is late, the ticket is forfeited, because the timings on the contract are totally binding on the customer. If the airline choose to oversell, then the airline has no responsiblity to the customer, because the timings are not binding on the airline and form no part of the contract. Because all the airlines put this abusive text into their contracts, customers who do not agree are prohibited from accessing a key public transport service. Meanwhile, their taxes are used to support the infrastructure... it is wrong and re-regulation is the only way this will be sorted.

Jim, if the airline oversells their flights, then they have EVERY obligation to the customer. Most if not all airlines, have within their contract what's to be done if a person is in an oversell situation. They have to rebook them on a flight, they have to be given a hotel (if necessary or ground transportation), and they have to give cash compensation maximum $800. So in fact the airlines have EVERY responsibilty to the customer. While I don't agree with everything in an airlines contract, I do agree with this one, in fact I think the amount should be increased so that maybe airlines won't overbook so often.

And I will add that the fact that the airlines must compensate those who are involuntary denied boarding is an incentive not to overbook by too many people. This is why they keep historical data on flights and set a limit on the number of tickets they will sell for a specific flight. If you were to listen to some "pro-consumer" people on this board you would think that the airlines regularly sell 300 tickets on a 150 seat aircraft. That just doesn't happen. In my experiemce when I have been informed of how many a flight I am on has been oversold by the number is almost always in the single digits. And again (and hopefully this time without snarky accusations) I will relate to you that many times I have put my name on the list because an hour before departure the flight is in an over-sold status only to end up being boarded because of no-shows. The vast majority of the time the system works. Just read the DOT numbers. Airlines are required to report the number of passengers they "bump" every quarter.

Thanks Bob, but we only slightly disagree. You think airlines should be fined more for overbooking as a disincentive. I think it should be banned altogether.

Phx..we will never agree on this. When you finally get round to admitting you like me and invite me to Madison Square Garden to see Rufus Wainwright live, I would be mightly ****** off to get there and be told "sorry, we oversell so many seats because people don't turn up. Here is a ticket to see Britney Spears tomorrow instead".

It is not acceptable..plain and simple.

Bad analogy. You would not only get to see Rufus Wainwright (albeit the next show, not the next day normally) you would also be entitled to back stage passes. You would not be given tickets to another performer (although I wouldn't mind seeing Miss Spears in a private setting)

My point is you still get to your final destination, a bit later, with compensation.

Fat lot of good that will do you... if you were going to a wedding, christening, funeral, meeting, etc... (the usual litany of important things that people travel for).

Is Britney your type? I would have thought Hyori Lee was more you thing!:rolleyes:

jim jim jim, re-regulation will NOT solve the cures of the airline industry, its an industry that no matter what will be flawed and people will not ever be satisfied with it

re-regulation would create more of a monopoly than deregulation, it would give the strong more and the weak less, the empolyees will be the same and you will get the same responses from them (rude FA, unhelpful disrespectful check-in agents, so on) the policies and rules may change but even with regulation will still be in favor of the airlines, and wont improve anything, theres a bunch more

total de-reg and regulation are not the way too go, however i believe everyone agress that things need to change, but there are losses either way you go and the initial step may be a big one that will only create more havoc and chaos which will disrupt everything


yeah we all know that there are lobbyists (ehat industry doesn't) and they pay politiceans, but i believe that there are smart politiceans for the most part that see this and will try to do something about it..........granted that the politiceans aren't from here in nj or from illinois (i believe i heard a stat that your twice as likely to be caught in a scandle in office that could have them in jail than a murderer being caught)

on a side note, i hear that continental, american and delta are having peak day travel fees and may think about adding days to them (for example $50 the day after the superbowl)

Mars wrote...

re-regulation will NOT solve the (ills) cures of the airline industry

First, the only way there will be any meaningful reform in the domestic airline industry is through some catastrophic event possibly involving deaths or injuries. Otherwise I don't think there is the will, in Congress, to act.

The Air Transport Association needs to abandon its fantasy that the status quo can be sustained until such time (5 to 10 years, or more?) as a major overhaul of the air traffic control system is complete. Some of the nation's major airports, such as New York--LaGuardia and Atlanta, simply have too many flights crammed into time frames that are too short. The government needs to ration flights while insuring that all affected airlines bear the "pain" proportionately. Within such a reform mechinism the practice of gates being the "property" of a given airline would need to be abolished. Obviously the airlines would have to be compensated, through tax brakes or otherwise, for such a government "taking."

The public needs to understand, and accept, that meaningful airline reform will be a "back to the future" experience. $75 fares, from New York to Orlando, will be history and Greyhound will, once again, become the choice of those who can't afford the increased air fares. At a minimum, those who want to fly on the cheap would be relegated to using secondary airports and the inconvenience of extended ground transportation to and from.

mars.. your views are little surprising from someone who lauds Singapore. Singapore is one of the most regulated places on earth. So much so, even the press is regulated.

How regulation creates monopolies I don't know. Will regulation of the financial services industry create monopolies? There are loads of industries out there which are regulated.. and they are not monopolies.

Passing a regulation which prohibits overselling of seats. If they are worried about empty seats, they can have a concession. They can sell cheap "standby" seats which are released 15 minutes before departure.

Some hotels and car rental agencies overbook as well. Do you propose regulating those industries? Regulation isn't the answer to everything and overbooking in the airline industry isn't as big a problem as you make it out to be.

I have never heard of hotel or car rental overbooking... EVER. I have never been refused a room or a car when I book it. I have however, a number of times been denied boarding, or been on a flight where offers have been made to encourage passengers to disembark. Every time that has happened to me, I have been in the US.

You've never rented a car and when you went to pick it up were told the class of vehicle you rented wasn't available? Unless I need more room for a specific reason I always rent the lowest or next to lowest economy class vehicle and nearly half the time they will be out of them and have to give me a free upgrade to a sedan or SUV. It's a great way of gaming the system for free upgrades as much as volunteering your seat in an oversale is a great way of getting free travel.

Next week I'll be flying three segments out and three segments back on the two busiest days of the travel holiday. I did so intentionally to increase my chances of getting a bump. I also intentionally booked the last flight out of Las Vegas on the trip home so I might be forced into an overnight stay there. A free hotel room in Vegas is just the break I'll need after spending 4 days with the parents et al!

I have regularly been upgraded with my car... but this is not at all the same thing. I adopt exactly the same tactics. I am writing this from Madrid. I booked a Ford Ka. I always book a Ford Ka. The reason for this is that I have NEVER been given a Ford Ka, as most airport car hire places don't have them. I am driving a nice Citroen C5 instead but paying about $60 less than if I had booked it ahead of time.

This is not at all comparable with the airline scenario. Have you ever heard me complain that a customer has been upgraded to 1st Class? But I can honestly say I have NEVER not been able to get a car when I have booked one.

I have no problems with your tactics to get a free room in Vegas and perhaps some top up miles, especially after Thanksgiving with the parents. However, the fact that you can organise your schedule in such a way as to increase your chances of not getting on, illustrates perfectly how common this reprehensible practise is. Furthermore, the airlines overbooking at critical travel times, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc is doubly problematic. How many precious family holidays have been ruined by airlines.