Where's the Moderator?
 

I thought this might get his attention. Why do days go by with this board getting spammed and hijacked with no intervention whatsoever? I can't imagine anyone who gives a rat's ass about his own forum would be such a *****! Of course, I am only using such language to try to draw him out of hiding. Ollie Ollie Oxen Free!

You can, of course, delete this thread as I suspect you will. And suspend me if you must! I just wanted to see how severe things had to get before you grew some balls and actually did anything you lazy lummocks wanker!

I believe my point has been made
 

For those of you who may find the above post inappropriate, regardless of its motive, I refer you to a post of mine of about three days ago.

http://www.airlinecomplaints.org/showthread.php?t=3582

Specifically, I direct your attention to the last paragraph within post #4.

I expect there will be posts following in this thread which will, actually, attempt to defend the above outburst.

Go **** yourself, BUTCH. I've been nothing but civil the past few days. I post a thread to illicit some sort of response from the person that runs this site and you seize it as an opportunity to attack me yet again.

Guess what Butch. I have all sorts of internet dirt on you. Do you want me to air your dirty laundry here? I'd be glad to do it. You'd better SHUT THE **** UP or anything you post from here on out will be dismissed as yet another ranting from a crazed idiot. How did that election go? Are you still taking the photos of the municipal truck in Tienamen Square?

Where does this all end??
 

How do the friends of PHXFlyer defend this??? The post dated 02/19/2009, 5:49 AM is a prime example.

One might wish to note: Not too many posts ago, PHXFlyer was questioning my mental stability. Again, I suggest one review the previous post.

Finally, it looks like PHXFlyer is ranting-on about how he plans to "expose" me. About what, who knows??? Anyway, he makes reference to a political website I maintain. Here's the link.

http://www.jcordner.us/

Like PHXFlyer, I DO hope the moderator of this board takes some action.

Butch - I have to agree with PHX in that his original post here was solely to get the attention of the moderator, and as he pointed out, you took that and twisted into a tirade. I'm not sure that I agree with some of his other responses, but you did provoke this. You can't say something that will cause a response and then throw a fit at the response that happens.

His was a reaction. In your case, I too question you mental status.

Can I play instigator here and double dog dare PHXflyer to air what dirt she has on butch lol come on, hit me come on i want you to hit me.... HIT ME! (sorry too much Dark Knight... love that movie) Come on everyone, why so serious?

And by the way PHX - he didn't take that picture in China - he made it. It's a photoshop job. Notice how the lighting on the truck is from the front, but in the rest of the picture, the sunlight is from the back.

For those who wonder what the heck this is about - he asks the question if anyone has seen the town truck where it should not be.

http://www.jcordner.us/FRANNIE_CIVICS_LESSON.html

http://www.jcordner.us/sitebuilder/i...04-481x346.jpg

Free advertising and "mental status"
 

Jetliner & PHXFlyer:

Thanks for the free advertising. Is that pic the scandalous piece of dirt you have on me???
Just like on this board, there are individuals in our Town who feel rules and laws do not apply to them. That's what that pic, and the attached commentary, was all about.

So, Jetliner & PHXFlyer, I suppose you will now join in competition with the professional spammers on this board and start pasting every last tidbit about myself on the internet. Please, go ahead, be my guest!! There may be some people who let embarrassing aspects of themselves out onto the internet. I am not one of them. So, please, flatter me, cut and paste away.

I was giving some thought, today, to Jetliner's analysis of my psyche. Jetliner feels my "mental status" is in question. I realized that airline passenger rights advocate Kate Hanni has been called mentally ill by American Air and the Air Transport Association. Kate is suing American Air for unlawful imprisonment, among other things. I guess American Air thinks the courts are interested in name calling. Dianna Fairechild, an advocate for passenger health and safety was, likewise, called mentally ill, by a poster (an airline employee) on another board. Evidently, to the airlines and their supporters, if someone advocates for more fresh air, in flight, they are mentally ill. On the other hand, PHXFlyer's obscenities, and threats, of the past 24 to 36 hours, are seen as perfectly rational by Jetliner? Seems like "mental status"/"mental illness" are words used by the airline industry to describe their opponents. The question is, what happens when those words lose their credibility? I guess the "new disease" will be leprosy??

Finally, countrynewsman's recent post has given me something to think about. Between the spammers; PHXFlyer; Jetliner, et al, it appears this board has become an uncontrolled obscenity/threat contest.

Caught me, redhanded!!
 

And by the way PHX - he didn't take that picture in China - he made it. It's a photoshop job. Notice how the lighting on the truck is from the front, but in the rest of the picture, the sunlight is from the back.

Boy, a regular **** Tracy! No, he's right: I, really, thought everyone would believe the driver of this vehicle drove it to Oakland, then had it, secretly, put on a container ship, then slip it past Chinese customs, etc. I'd like to think poor Jetliner was joking here. But I don't think that's the case. Maybe there's something to Jetliner's preoccupation with "mental status" disorders. Note the following comment from another post, of his, from today:

Obviously she had some sort of mental episode.

Has anyone noticed? Jetliner has an uncanny ability to do remote psychoanalysis! I think Jetliner is giving us all some insight as to why we, occasionally, hear, on this board and elsewhere, of airline staff just "losing it."

Again, Jetliner, thanks for the free advertising. Look forward to more of your cut and pastes. If the moderator ever comes back from vacation I hope his view is equally as charitable, although I doubt it!

When i said she obviously had a mental episode, that sure as hell didn't take any psychological training to figure out. Why do you insist on posting out of context? For those of you who didn't read the actual post, long story short is a lady posted that her mother was on Air Canada, got stuck somewhere along the way, and called her asking to be picked up at the airport, but the mother apparently though she was calling the lady's brother. The poster clearly indicated that the mother was confused due to being tired. She was saying that AC didn't help her mother. My point was simply that her mom may not have gone to the AC counter. What Butch has posted was where I simply stated that in spite of the poster later saying that her mother is able to live alone and is mentally fine, she still had some sort of mental episode during this trip.

Also, Butch, as I am a former employee of an airline, and nowhere have I stated my current profession, how do yo know that I don't have some type of Psychological training?

I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of airing out other's dirty laundry, as it has been called here. I know that the truck did not actually sit in China to have the picture taken. But as I stated previously, this goes to show your character online. That's were I see that you have no credibility. Because no matter what it is, you are a disagreeable SOB. I think Pattis hit the nail right on the head a few posts ago. You bitch about everything. I'm sure your neighbors just love you. The point is, you go to absolute extremes, and will say just about anything.

Here's the bottom line. The point of this site is for people to post their complaints about the airlines. In the process, there are going to people such as myself who, for whatever reason, see things from the other side of the ticket counter, so to speak. It may be Airhead who works for an airline, Me who used to, Abutterfield (spelling) who works for the DOT, or PHXflyer who is a passenger that probably spends more time on planes then some flight crews. But the complaint gets posted, and some of us respond if we see fit. But you can't just leave it at that. You have to resort to bashing others, and before long, look what has happened. Your crap is starting to take over the board. And as I have pointed out somewhere here before, this is not the first board you have transformed from genuine complaint board to bitch about other members board.

We are here and we're cleaning up the house.

No personal attack against members of AirlineComplaints.org will be tolerated. No exceptions.

Foul language will also not be tolerated.

We were investigating the spammers on the board and came to the conclusion that usernames

Cuckabum
HotWalnut
shmedly123

were all the same person. All 3 usernames have been permanently banned as a result.

Thank you! Can you also disappear their posts that are still here?

PHXFlyer has been permanently banned from AirlineComplaints.org for threatening the Admin of this forum, for using sarcasm in most of his posts, for threatening other members, for insulting other members, for using foul language, and for generally being unhelpful to this community.

On the foul language and and the like, no argument from me. But saying he is generally unhelpful is wrong. Is that observation only because he is in support of the airlines and not those filing complaints? That is the only conclusion that can be drawn given some of the helpful advice he has posted.

Also, by some of the other reasons, why is Butch still here? Sarcastic comments, insulting other members, and generally unhelpful (most of his posts are time spent bashing airline people and going on and on about arrest).

Feel free to report any members posts and we will look into them and apply the same standards.

We have a new Infractions System in place to quickly give out infraction points for foul language, disrespectful posts, or generally unhelpful responses. As points are accumulated, the System automatically hands out temporary bans to give the offender time to cool off. By reporting posts that fit any of these criteria, you make it easier for us to hand out infractions.

And I am gong to second Countrynewsman here - the spammer posts need to be deleted. There is another user name C--dumpster - it's obviously the sam person. This time he has posted that he is watching two US Airways employees, well, let's just say, having some back door fun in the gate. These are obvious bogus posts.

I don't know about the software used here, but I know on phpBB you can ban an IP address. Can the same be done here? It's obvious that whoever this is, they are just creating new user names to still post.

Jetliner...I emailed the administrator about banning the IP address. I'm not tech savvy, so I don't know how this is done, but if it can be, it should be done immediately.

I have had run ins with PHX myself and indeed have been on the receiving end of an abusive private message, but I have to say I am disappointed that he has been banned permanently. I rarely agreed with him, but he did provide a counterpoint and ironically I think some of his later posts have actually been helpful to some posters. He needs to get a grip on his temper without a doubt, but personally I think a shot across the bows would have been enough.

The software being used here is called VBulletin. I've never used it on the admin end, but I have used phpBB, which is the other very common forum software. I know that on phpBB, there is a user log that logs everytime we all log in, the date, time and IP address. From that is an option to ban that IP address. I am sure that this software has the same type of feature.

In fact, I can tell you that is how the Admin knows that the three listed spammer user names were all the same person. I know it doesn't take a lot of detective work to figure that out, but that would be a definite.

Trash talk and rational dialogue
 

abusive private message

For those who feel PHX has redeeming characteristics, I fail to see how such traits could have justified his continued access to this board. One of PHX's "lesser offenses" was failing to identify himself as an airline employee. As of last night, on another site, he identified himself as a "flight attendant." Today, that same site has the words "flight attendant" omitted.

http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile?...98b1c4d5a03aaa

I printed-out a copy of the site, with the "flight attendant" words.

I think input, on this site, from airline employees, and their friends, is a GOOD thing. Said input can turn BAD when airline employees try to suppress topics that make them uncomfortable--through name-calling or otherwise. Again, when someone violates the rule of this board requiring identification of airline employees, then their motives can be called into question.

As I said in a previous post: Boards like this are, essentially, the ONLY outlet for the expression of customer complaints and possible resolutions, like passenger rights. Those, on this board who support the airlines--blindly, and otherwise--have the backings of the well-paid staff and resouces of the Air Transport Association and the hefty contributions the airlines give to political candidates who support the status-quo of airline-customer relations.

Hi Butch, well I must admit it is a revelation that he is an airline employee because he repeatedly denied it and instead implied he was a first class frequent flyer!! I don't dispute at all that he oversteps the line, and he was in fact abusive to me a few times. However, I do think on boards like this the presumption should be to let me have their say, however stridently. Of course there have to be limits, but I am not sure a lifetime ban was justified. Offensive speech is a very subjective thing. Although I agree with much of what you say for example, the way you express it seems to me to go over the line at times. I regard that as your freedom of speech and I would always reserve the right to disagree just as vehemently. Obscene speech, such as the posts by Walnut et al on the other hand is just pathetic and deserves being totally blocked.

Well, back to the original post for just a second, I don't understand the moderation on this board at all. You have the spam posters like Hotwalnut whoever, and although they have been banned, their foul mouth posts are still there. And how long was PHX's original post there before it even got noticed? The moderator came on about a week of so ago and said that bad behavior would not be tolerated from anyone and warnings issued, etc, but nothing seemed to be done. So PHX basically set a fire on here, and finally a few days later got noticed.

And the part about all we have to do is just hit the report button.....I've been doing that, and it has not done any good. The posts I was reporting violate the rules that had been stated, and they are still there.

I understand the moderator started this board for people to voice complaints, but the only ones that seem to get into any real trouble are the anti airline people. The ones (spammers) who post something negative about the airline....well he just bans the user name, but leaves the foul language posts, and doesn't block the IP address to keep them from coming back under another name, which has happened.

Sorry, Mr. Moderator, but you need to keep tabs a little better, and apply the rules more fairly.

Butch, I'm not going to call for you being banned here - You also have some good input, but you too have been guilty of the above quite a few times.

With that said, I will say that I disagree with some of the reasons the moderator listed for banning PHX. One that I had not listed in my other post was threatening the Administrator. If he had sent the Admin a PM, then so be it. I don't know what would have been in such a PM, so no comment if that is the case. However if the Admin is referring only to the original post, then there is no threat, and I feel the Admin is in the wrong on that.

However, and this is a big HOWEVER, I do not agree with what PHX did in some of his last posts. I understand what he did with post #1 here - he felt it was the only way to get the Admin's attention. It's like having the town cop asleep on the side of the road with a bank robbery going on right in front of him, and he threw a rock at the car to wake up the cop. But, the posts saying, um, well, screw you Butch and how he was going to air dirty laundry....I can't disagree with the admin on that one.

And yes, I know you might say that I did post the picture of the truck he was referring to. My point on that is you do go a bit nuts on things online. Refer back to the first paragraph of this post. I'm also not so sure that I can agree with putting out his personal email address, but I understand why that was done.

I'm simply going to ask one thing of you Butch, and that is to please lay off of off remarks about the airline employees. I know that there are ones that should be shot, but it's kind of like the Catholic church. Priests are good people, but you have a few that are giving them a bad rep. I'm not always going to side with the airline automatically. I will read the post with an open mind. And if I think I can offer some advice to help the person, then I will. But if I smell BS, then I am going to call it what it is. And yes, there are going to be times that I may be wrong (I have had a post or two that I missed a detail) but I will do the best I can. It's just that after spending many years in the industry I have seen many cases where people embellish the details, or plain make up a story just to get something for free. I've seen my share of complaint letters on a situation that I saw first hand, and the passenger filled the letter with tons of BS.

The biggest problem with the lack of rights, as you put it, is not the airline folks, it's the TSA. Please don't get me started on them. But that's a whole different set of forums. Just keep in mind that the airlines have no control over what they do or what regulations they put in place.

I believe that PHX works for Southwest. He may be a flight attendant now, but I don't believe that he always has been. And it's not unusual to have someone from the airport transfer to in-flight.

Here's why I think this: He has posted quite a bit of advice that has to do with ticketing and such, and some of what he has said are things that a flight attendant simply would not know. Not in that much detail. So either he was at one time a frequent flier on paid tickets (not an airline employee) or he has worked at the airport.

But, since he has been banned, I have come across a couple things he has posted that make me certain he does or has worked for an airline. In one post he used the term IRROPS for a flight delay. Some airlines use the term IROP, but it't the same thing. It means Irregular Opperations, and it simply refers to the flight being delayed or canceled. I know that there is probably going to be some frequent flier out there that knows what this term is, but there can't be that many.

But what really has given it away for me, and why I am sure he works for Southwest, was his last post about a part falling off of the plane. If you have not read that post here's the short summary. Someone posted claiming they had just flown on Southwest and while in flight took a couple pictures with their cell phone camera. In the pictures there is something that looks like is is outside the aircraft. To make a long story short it was proven (by Me) that it was simply something stuck on the lens. (I superimposed one image over the other, and object is in exactly the same postion in the frame) Anyway, the OP there kept insisting that it was some part that fell off of the plane, but she stopped when someone (I think Jimworcz??) said that the pictures were not actually of a part from the plane, and he was done with the post.

Someone recently posted something on there asking how do we even know it was on Southwest, that if there had been one of the winglets in view we would know. PHX previously had said he PM'd the lady and she gave him the times of the flight, and he was able to find what flight it was. OK, so far. That is easy enough to find on line. But, after the post about the lack of winglets, he said that the aircraft had left for it's next flight without delay, and that the aircraft was currently in the hangar getting winglets installed. It would take quite a bit of digging online to find what the next flight was, and actually since this was days later, it would not be out there at all. But the only two ways to know that the plane is in the hangar for winglets is either A- someone on Airliners.net happened to mention it,which if that't the case, it's time to play the lottery or B- he works for Southwest. And what seals this part of it for me is that even after he had the flight number from the info she gave, there is no way on the outside to find out the aircraft number or registry. So how else, other than working for the airline, would he be able to know that the same plane she flew on was now in the hangar?

Methinks Jetliner should change moniker to "Sherlock".:D Brilliant thinking!

Ditto... I am impressed and can you now solve the mystery of the man who parachuted from the airplane with a ton of ransom money in the 1970s?!!

Firstly hopefully PHX is not banned for good I really enjoyed his input and his character. Secondly if we expect airline people (current and former) to identify themselves as such. Out of fairness why not make everyone say what they do. Seems only fair. If it wasnt for the fact that he know about the plane going to the hanger, I would say he does like I do, 1. I goggle a lot 2. I live in an apt. complex with several American and Southwest employees and show them some of these postings to see what they say 3. I deal with airlines air freight departments and have also show them the emails/posting. When dealing with the airline employees I will get told inside terms(and then after, asking what them mean) and being in my late 40's I came from the era of taking notes :) .
While its going to be a busy next couple of days (scarey when funeral homes say, business is good and busy :) ). we had 3 come in today and since I am not licensed director I get to type up paperwork and get the rooms ready for the wakes.

Hello all,

I know i am not a regular poster on this forum, however I do try and help out when I can, but would like to say that I have watched with interest over the last couple of weeks the escalating issues regarding posting. I myself have been on the end of one of PHXflyer's tirades, however I do not agree with banning him forever. If that is the case, then so should Butch! You cannot tell me that they were not antagonising each other, they were.

Both used foul language and both got a little hot under the collar, so why should one stay and one go? Moderator, there as to be consistancy in your actions, as presently the situation is unfair. I enjoy coming onto this site as airline staff, to help people and learn from others, and if a little heated debate happens so be it! But dont ban one when the other has jus cause to be banned also for the same reason.

I now understand that it has been found that PHXflyer alledgedly works for Southwest, Please believe me when I say that I DO NOT agree with his personal comments, however his working knowledge was pretty spot on, he didnt get it wrong often, however his personal opinions overshadowed this alot of the time.

There! I have had my say :) ... Boy do I feel better :)

I agree Cazzi, even though I rarely agreed with phxflyer. I have had a private communication from him and he still denies being an airline employee. Of course, it is the internet, so you can never be sure, but after his last communication with me, I am inclined to believe that he is not, in fact, an employee of Southwest. He has explained how he was able to find out where the Southwest plane went into the hangar. (Airliners.net and links with others in that forum helped out). I am not sure that the moderators are likely to change their mind, but I would hope they would re-instate phxflyer with a "red card". (For those who are not into football, (or soccer as you call it) you may need to google that reference!).

Well, I will stand corrected then as it seems he did do it with option A that I listed.

On another note:
Because one is pro airline, the other anti airline. There is an obvious double standard on the part of the moderator. This is made very clear by the fact that while he has banned HotWalnut and his/her other user names, he has not deleted the posts as he did with other spammers. The other spammers were just putting up links, presumably to ads or the like. HotWalnut has actually said something bad about the airlines, so those have stayed, even though they are vulgar posts and violate the set of rules the moderator put out.

I, too, believe there is a double standard on the part of the moderator. As I have noticed, the vulgar posts by the individual posing as three (or is it four?) different people still remain here. Why?

Something just hit me like a ton of bricks. And because of it, PHX, if you are reading this, I sincerely apologize. Why?

As I said before, if PHX was a flght attendant, he still had other experience. What he posted does not come from the knoledge of a FA. I can't believe that I fell for this. Who wants to take bets that Butch made this up?

The muted voice of the airline customer
 

To paraphrase a recent editorial in The New York Post: To those with unfettered motives—If my posts have offended, I am sorry. To those who’s agenda is to silence commentary favoring airline customers—no apology is due.

To the latter, and to anyone else, I direct your attention to the following link:

http://www.airlines.org/

As can be seen, this organization (The Air Transport Association—“ATA”) mirrors the sentiments of those on this board who, while not always defending airlines, tend to defend more often than not. In addition to this website, the ATA has paid lobbyists and publicity staff. There is, at least, one other similar organization representing the interests of smaller US-based airlines. On the other hand, airline customers are left with little more than boards like this to express their concerns. Accordingly, I submit the power of effective communication, and influence, is clearly on the side of the airlines. I fail to see how, to any reasonable person, it can be said the airlines do NOT have a meaningful voice on this site. My posts about the absence of civil rights on airport property, and on-board aircraft, have received strong criticism. Whether some would cite this position as, yet another, reason for my being banned I do not know.

As to my future posts, I may be less than congenial. However I expect all of my posts should conform to any reasonable (and agenda-free) person’s standard of decency. I acknowledge the moderator as the final arbiter of what is appropriate content.

As to PHXFlyer: If he is allowed back on this board it appears he, first, has some explaining to do. Based on his postings, elsewhere on the internet, the phrase “flight attendant,” or “former flight attendant” should appear below his screen name on this board as is the case for other airline staff who post here. For those who do not know, “CharliePhxAZ” is the prefix on PHX’s e-mail address. I suppose someone else could use that as a screen name, but I don’t think the statistical probability favors that. Anyway, here is a link, to an internet posting, where PHX, or “Charlie,” admits to being a flight attendant. For those who have said e-mail address, you will note the screen name matches the e-mail prefix right down to the case variations. As far as I know, PHX does not have the ability to delete his posting as contained in this link.

http://longboardsector.com/longboard...erhead-storage

PHXFlyer as a flight attendant--present or former
 

Who wants to take bets that Butch made this up?

Just like Alan Keyes will never accept the idea that Barack Obama is a native-born US citizen, there are those on this board who refuse to accept anything negative about PHXFlyer. In anticipation of a comment like this, I took the precaution of printing-out the web page in question--before PHX made alterations to it. I scanned the print-out and could post it on here. However, for those "PHX-defenders" I suspect the answer will simply be that I "photo-shopped" the relevent text. Likewise the link I referenced, in the previous post will, somehow, be denied.

How did you even find that? It does not come up on Google but plenty of other sites do. There are not post dates or times there. How do we know you didn't post that yourself?

The leopard's spots
 

Jetliner went into a detailed explanation of why he thought PHXFlyer WAS a flight attendant. The minute he finds-out I'm the one who raised that question he denies everything he said!

I think we are getting diverted from the issue. To be honest, if Butch was making that link up, it takes a lot of imagination to have picked such an obscure point of reference, and kudos to his vivid imagination. Phxflyer may have been playing with the skateboarder, may be playing with everyone on this board or Butch might be playing games. It is the internet, so you should always have a healthy amount of scepticism about anything you read on these forums.. in the end, what difference does it make?

Butch, I am not anti you or pro-Phx. I am pro-debate and feel that speech should be protected unless there is an overwhelming reason not too. The obscene and childish postings by Walnut et al needed to be banned because they were nuisance, spamming type posts and contributed nothing.

Both you and phx overstepped the mark when the debate got heated, and I have no quarrel with the moderator exercising control over that. You were wrong to post phx's personal email in the public forum. Phx was wrong to get so overheated that he posted abusive private and public messages to the mods and other posters.

But why is it necessary for people to launch into demands that each get banned from the forum. By all means suspend, issues warnings and if the behaviour doesn't change then as a last resort ban. The internet is one of the few truly free forums for debate, is highly democratic and limiting debate should always be a last resort.

Frankly, whether phx has been an airline employee or not is neither here nor there.

No, more in the line that someone who wouldn't normally be one to stand up for him indicated that I might be wrong. Then it occured to me that the only source of "He's a flight attendant" was you. You are the only one who has such a woodie that he must be an airline employee.

You are also the only one on here griping that anyone is trying to supress anyone's views, yet you are also the only one trying to do so.

Getting back on track, I would agree with the majority as I also believe the mods here are actually looking at those who are pro airline, more so than those who are anti. I do believe there is room for both; this site was made clearly for those who want to vent their fustrations about the airline. However one cannot expect others to site idle by and not say something in defense, especially to those situations where its clearly the passengers fault and not the airline. I've gotten in a few heated discussions, but once was I threatened with being banned because of the language I used. However no sooner after the threatening of banning was issued when others started using foul, even worse language that what I did. I didn't say anything at the time because I believe the mods had to have seen the posts and were gonna do somethin about it, but that wasn't the case. PHXflyer should not be banned for calling out the mods, whethere he was a FA or not, is besides the point. HE had great views and offered excellent opinions and advice, plus he believed things were getting out of hand. And the mod's answer to that was to ban PHX? That's crazy and clearly unfair. This board is getting out of control with posts that attack one another, spammers, and total unfairness. If the mods want to keep some kind of order, and instill such rules as no foul language, then they need to start sweeping up around here, viewing pasts post and banning those who deserve it. You can't ban one and not the other, it shows your one sidedness by stating that those who defend the airlines can be ousted and those who are anti can have a pleasant day.