Negligent information with catostrophic consequences
 

This is a copy of a letter I have just sent to Delta Customer Care.

On Saturday 5th December, my girlfriend and I were due to fly on the 21.30 flight from Buenos Aires to Manchester via Atlanta. During the check-in procedure it was discovered that my girlfriend did not have the relevant visa to travel to the United States. We found out that to transit the United States, a transit visa is required. We could not believe this as she had previously enquired what she would need to travel on this trip and she was told she would need a passport and a return ticket. This was in the Delta call centre in Chile before she bought the ticket. Now, in the airport, Delta were telling her she needed a transit visa as well. This is a totally different answer to the one given by the employee in the call centre. Furthermore, Delta were telling us that it is the customer’s responsibility to get the correct documentation for flying. This is perfectly fine. I do not have a problem with this. What I do have a problem with is that Delta misinformed my girlfriend by missing out one vital piece of information when they told her what she would need for this trip, and that is the visa which is vital for the trip.

Since Saturday evening we have failed to get any form of satisfaction from Delta who simply give us the same spiel about it being the passenger’s responsibility to get the correct documentation for travel. I have spoken to the call centre in Chile three times after being told by the manager at the airport and the girl who works in the office in Buenos Aires that there is a customer care team I can speak to regarding this. However, when I get through I am assured that there isn’t and if I do have a complaint I can only reach customer care by email or fax. I have already sent three emails to Delta regarding my plight to which they have responded once. This however, was a very unsatisfactory but expected response from Delta. They chose to ignore the fact that Delta had told my girlfriend that all she would need to travel was a passport and return ticket, and responded by saying that it was the customer’s responsibility to find the correct documentation to travel. They also copy and pasted the company’s terms and conditions and attached it to their response. They failed to make any relevant comment to the email and have simply ignored what the problem was.

On Monday, I went in person to the Delta office to try and get this sorted out once and for all. However, it soon became apparent that they couldn’t help either. I need to speak to someone who can actually help and understand this particular case. The girl in the office told me to speak to customer care which shows how much she knows about the department who hides behind computer screens and cannot be contacted by phone. When she realised that customer care aren’t a phone friendly department she told me I would need to send a fax or send an email.

Since that time I have sent another email which I have had no response from. However, now as I have no other option I am also sending a fax. As I have explained to everyone who has been connected with this terrible mess, this is an absolute disaster for my girlfriend and I. With every day the situation becomes more impossible. On Monday we found out that my girlfriend would not be able to get a visa until the 14th of January at the earliest which is two days later than we were originally due to return to Buenos Aires. I need to start work again when I get back, therefore it is impossible to wait and travel with Delta. Because Delta only told my girlfriend that she would need a passport and return ticket for this trip to Manchester, when she specifically asked what she would need, I hold Delta 100 per cent responsible for our predicament. They have failed to tell her the one piece of information that is fundamental for travel on this trip and as a result we are living the worst nightmare of our lives. I will miss Christmas and New Year at home with my family who I haven’t seen for over a year. We will lose all the flights I have booked for when we get home ( we were supposed to be flying to Dublin today, then Rome, Edinburgh, and London), plus train tickets, coach tickets, hotel rooms, football tickets, tickets for shows in London. Not to mention the costs of taxis and the fact that I will have to pay a fine as I have now gone over the date I am allowed to stay in Argentina. My girlfriend is distraught and her dreams of visiting England have been smashed. The whole thing is a disaster for us. Our Christmas, New Year and all of the holiday have been ruined by Delta who could so easily have avoided any of this happening if they had answered my girlfriend’s question correctly and told her she needed a visa. Instead they have accepted no responsibility for their negligence and continue to blame us for not finding out the correct information for travel. What more did my girlfriend need to do to find out what she needed to travel than to ask Delta, the very same company she is flying with what she needed? I am livid.

I have already sent an email telling Delta what I need and so far it has been ignored. I need you to listen to the conversation between my girlfriend and the Delta call centre worker in Chile who did not tell my girlfriend that she would need a visa for the trip, even though she asked specifically what she would need. I would also need a copy of this conversation.

I would also like Delta to pay for a flight for both of us that does not include a stop in the United States, therefore eradicating the problem that my girlfriend has with waiting over a month for the transit visa. As Delta only fly via the United States this would have to be with another company.

Finally I would like full compensation for taxis to and from the airport, fines for not leaving the country before the date on the passport, flights in Europe, trains, coaches, hotels, football matches, shows, and loss of earnings due to arriving back in Buenos Aires later than originally planned.

I want this complaint fully escalated within Delta. I will also be writing to the CEO of Delta. If you do not fulfil my wishes I will also be complaining to the relevant regulator/ombudsmen of the airline industry in the United States. You may also be interested to know that I have gone public with this story and will have absolutely no hesitation in giving my full story of this disgraceful situation to the interested parties back home and in the United States.

Chris Alexander

I hate to tell you this Chris, but this is routine for Delta. They absolutely will not help you, regardless of the circumstances. They will fall back on their terms and conditions. The truth is, Delta should either adopt a position that whenever a customer asks advice about visas, the stock answer is " you must check this yourself, as we cannot be held responsible" or if they give advice, they should be prepared to stand behind the advice. Whatever the situation, you will not get a resolution in the timeframe you are looking for.

I would call the reservations. Explain your dilemma and ask if they could help you to transfer the tickets to Air France, via Paris. This avoids the US and is the most likely option, as Air France and Delta are in the same Skyteam Alliance. They may not be willing to do this, but it is worth a try. No amount of indignation will get you through Delta's anti-customer attitude. Don't get abusive or threatening. I would ask politely, bordering on pleading to help you have a Christmas.. if there is an extra charge, be willing to pay it. If you don't get anywhere, call back and try a different agent. Some are more sympathetic than others.

In future, avoid US carriers for international transport.. they are invariably worse than the competition and should be avoided at all costs.

You will get a load of abuse on this board from people telling you how stupid you are and how it is totally your responsibility. They will deliberately miss the point of your post. It would be your fault, if you were not mislead by Delta. This is what makes it their problem and why they should step up to the plate and assist you. My advice, ignore them. They enjoy twisting the knife into people who are in desperate straits.

Is that my cue?

I agree 100% that the OP was given the wrong information. That's the bottom line. Their fallback however and Jim touched on this about whether they should or shouldn't give out the information is that it is posted on their website and probably somewhere in the mess of rules you agreed to by clicking that it is up to each traveler to hold the right documents. The OP was proactive and asked the carrier, DL, what was needed. That should be enough. But it won't be. Your complaints, I'm afraid, will very possibly fall in deaf ears. I wish you well and keep us informed please.

I'm in agreeance as well, sorta, in that the OP "might" have been given the wrong info, but the tenacity and the amount of compensation for something that is really the responsibility of the passenger, well it's a bit absurd and highly doubtful you'll get anything more than travel vouchers. I'm guessing they took your letter, highlighted your demands and pasted it on a wall for all to point and laugh at.

But in order to make your case rock solid, try this: call up the call center (call a few times) ask about the requirements to leave Buenos Aires, transiting through the U.S. and see if you get the same answer, but also record it. Why i say do this? Because you mentioned telling the media, mind you only a small time news outfit MIGHT carry your story, but it won't go global as such instances of what happened to your girlfriend, isn't anything new and most will probably tell you that "You should have known this before hand" (trust me I've been there... Brazil why dost thou haunt me?). Yea certain airline occurences make headlines, but you need something mindblowing to really catch people's attention. And if you can back up you're story with a recording of a rep stating that you don't need a transit visa (or several reps), then that might help your case big time.

From TimaticWeb:

Should the call center agent have been aware if this? Absolutely. Should the OP have also been aware of this? Absolutely.

Have you lot gone soft in your old age.. or is it just because it is Christmas? In the good old days, the OP would have been eaten alive. :confused:

Thanks for all the advise. I will certainly be back in touch with the call centre to try and get them to change the tickets for Air France if they are in an alliance. However, I rate my chances at 0 per cent for getting a positive result, as Delta have been 0 per cent helpful in any of this.
One thing I would like to respond to however is the post from PHXFlyer who says and I quote, "All aliens travelling to or through the United

States must be in possession of a valid visa. Should the call center agent have been aware if this? Absolutely. Should the OP have also been aware of this? Absolutely."

I agree with the first half of the statement in that the call centre should be aware of that. It is their job to know that. But why on earth should an Argentinian girl who has never left the borders of her own country know that to transit in the US (ie waiting in an airport to catch a connecting flight to the UK, she needs a transit visa. Just to point out as well, that this visa costs the same money as a normal holiday visa. I have told this story to about 70 people since this incident occured on Saturday night, and not one single person had any idea that you need a transit visa to travel through the United States. This includes people from Argentina, Britain, Dubai, and Australia. But for some reason you think that this is common knowledge.
If my girlfriend had been told by the call centre worker the same thing that everybody is saying now, ie it is the responsibility of the passenger to get the correct info, she would have looked on the US Embassy website to check what she needed to travel and found this information out for herself. But because she was told all she needed to travel was a passport and return ticket, she had absolutely no need to check what she needed to travel on this flight, because Delta had already told her! What she did do was go to the website of the British Embassy to see if there were any special requirements for her to enter my country. Why did she do this you may ask? BECAUSE THIS WAS THE COUNTRY SHE WOULD BE SPENDING THE NEXT 5 WEEKS IN AND SO SHE WANTED TO BE SURE SHE COULD ENTER THE COUNTRY. In all my years of flying I have never seen this before, that you need a transit visa to enter a country's airport. It is for this reason (that it is totally absurd and unobvious) that Delta should be telling all passengers this as a matter of basic customer service! And furthermore, they should definitely tell someone what you need to transit the USA if they specifically ask what they will need. It is crucial. However, I would further point out that to obtain a USA transit visa is a lengthy process and takes over a month. The interview can last upto 2 hours of intense questioning and may result in not getting a visa if they think the potential passenger hasn't got enough proof behind their story. Not only this but also the cost involved; 15 dollars just to ring up for the interview, 131 dollars for the visa and 45 pesos for DHL to post it to you. A little overbudget for the average Argentinian. Not to mention it is the same cost as a holiday visa to the US. And you wonder why Delta do not see fit to tell all passengers that they will need a transit visa to travel? If you were the passenger, wouldn't you just go with an operator that went via Europe or Brazil and just put your 2 fingers up to Delta? Lying thieves.

yeah see if there is a way for air fance to accept the ticket and book you on their flight, or even if delta will extend the ticket so you can fly on them since you now understand that a transit visa is required

i understand why people need visas to ENTER the country, i do not see why one is needed when transiting in the country since your not entering the land, just staing in the airport, mainly airside so you for all purposes dont touch the soil........this isnt the first time i have heard about people not being allowed on a flight due to a transit visa, and i understand that its not exactly the airlines responsibility that people have visas, but there has to be some form of communication that says a visa may be required when called, since you took the initiative........it can just be something like, it is not our responsibility, but please check with the US embassy to see about visas

i ll finsih this later i gotta go

Even if Delta were to give compensation, reasonably it should only be for your girlfriend since your staying was your choice. Nothing preventing you from flying on December 5, 2009, and your girlfriend buying another ticket from another airline so that both of you got to England. That would have solved half the problem.

sry......continued

i have been on flights where i was checking into/dropping off my bags and a couple next to me were flying to Canada, Mexico, or South America and were flying through the US to get to their destination and had no idea that a visa was required, so they were denied boarding

so if you call the airline before you fly and ask what documents you may need for the entire trip (and telling them the segments and tell them your not a US citizen) than they should assist you, and let you know that there is a possibility that you need a visa but that YOU have to check that as it is not the airlines job, responsibility or know the complexities of visas, that is what the embassies are for, and for the individual to find out since their situation maybe different than another persons, such as greencards etc.....basically if you are active and call the airline than they should tell you that you need to check the us embassy website.

Also airlines should either offer credit for the amount you paid for that flight for another flight, or allow you to reserve a flight for another date at no charge, so that you can still get there

Because as someone traveling internationally it is incumbent on them to be aware of any and all rules and laws of entry to any country they visit or transit. Ignorance of a law does not excuse not being in compliance with said law. If she plans to continue to travel abroad she needs to be more diligent in learning these things. Perhaps this whole situation can be written off to a learning experience. Now it's time to move on and stop pointing your finger at the airline. Sure their mis-information was a contributing factor but your, and her, lack of follow-up to verify that information was just as much to blame.

You may feel it is totally absurd, however,

you're still putting all of the blame on the airline. Do this. Go to the mirror, and say to yourself, "I was at least partially to blame for this mess." Feel better now? Good. Now you can get on with your life.

PHXFlyer, you ****ing ****. I'm not sure what sort of a website this is but I joined because I thought it was for people who could help people with problems regarding airline issues. It looks like it is some sort of old wives website where a load of sad ***** without a life comment on people's dire straits without any concern for how the passenger may be feeling or how this may be affecting them or ruining their life. I do not want to get into an arguement with you you sad piece of ****. I just want to know what sort of person comes on a website such as this (an airplane complaints website) as some sort of hobby where they can pick apart someone's problems and point the blame on them, knowing full well that they have plenty other problems beside said cuntbag telling him to look in the mirror and getting on with his life. Jesus ****in Christ what sort of a person would write something as pathetic as that anyway?
I'll tell you what you ****in **** why don't you personally show me which mirror you want me to look at and I'll be quite happy to smash it over your ****ing head and stab you in the neck with it? Then I will be able to get on with my life. Fair enough? I think so. Now **** off you paedophile.

He ain't taking your nonsense Phx!! If US airlines provide services which involve transit through the US, and they mislead customers into thinking they do not need a visa, then I would say they are culpable. A customer should be able to rely on an airline to give them honest, straightforward advice. If they don't know, they shouldn't say it. How hard would it be for Delta to say to every visa information request, we have a link to the State Department or Homeland Security website whihc will proivde this information. The issue is, he was mislead.

chrisal.. let us know if the Air france option comes through (if you havn't been banned for abusive language. You are new, but you may not last long!!) Good luck and I hope you and your gf get to see England at Christmas.

I spoke to Delta call centre today and they refuse to budge saying it is impossible to shift the flight to Air France. I didn't expect them to say anything different. I pleaded my situation and it fell on totally deaf ears just as all other requests from them have. They are totally rebotic and inhumane. I cannot believe they don't have a customer care number that I can call and actually speak to someone who might be able to help. My last hope is to go to the office where my gf bought the ticket and try to plead with them again. If she can speak to the manager who we initially spoke to on Saturday night he appears to have some clout and he has already offered to change her flight without charge. This is the nearest to humanity we have had from Delta so we will press to speak to him again. Of course changing her date will be of no use as she cannot get the visa until after the date I have to return here to start work. What we can ask is if he can shift her flight to Air France so she doesn't need to fly through USA. It is our last hope. Failing this I am going to have to return home by myself without her thus losing her ticket which I worked 3 months to afford (I am earning pesos and not pounds here).

PHX, I have calmed down a little now, but I fail to understand the relevance of your quoted message. What were you actually getting at? Some sort of reference to me shouldering the blame I believe, but I don't fully get what you are on about? I just find what you said to be an utter disgrace with reference to me looking in the mirror and getting on with my life. I think you forget that I am currently stuck in Buenos Aires, and have been for the past 6 days, trying to come up with a solution to try and get me and my gf home for our holiday that I we have been looking forward to for a year. So far we have been hitting our heads off brick walls with Delta's lack of taking any responsibility for what is going on. I joined this site because I thought it was a site that could help, not a site that would tear me apart and gloat. If it is such a site then I will have no regret if I am banned from it for foul and abusive language.

Wow......wow. All I can say is wow!! :eek::eek:

If that was an attempt at an apology it's a lame one. :rolleyes:

In the OP's defense..he did preface the profanity-laced post with a smiley. :)

PHX, I can personally guarantee that it was not an apology. No the purpose of my previous email was to ask what you meant in your message as it unfortunately wasn't clear enough and I didn't understand. Infact it was more like a reply from Delta with all that copying and pasting, which is something they did with their reply to my initial email to them, when, instead of responding to my problem all they did was copy and paste their terms and conditions to me, thus totally missing the point of my arguement. Infact, do you work for Delta as you too seem to purposefully missing the point of my arguement?

Your "arguement" [sic] has very little meaning now that you've degraded your own post into a expletive filled rant. You, sir, deserve every bit of the misery you find yourself in now. Happy Holidays to you and your girlfriend and have a nice day.

To PHX I would like to repeat what I told him in earlier emails but would now like to wish him and all his paraplegic family the worst Christmas of all time, and hope that the next time he gets in a plane, it crashes.

Merry Christmas and have a lovely lovely day!

**********

Can I just pass on my condolencies to PHXFlyer who has recently received an infraction that will eventually lead to a temporary ban for comments made about my story. Perhaps he now understands how bad it is to be on the receiving end of some bad news and may be a little more tactful with what he says in the future. What he now needs to do is look in the mirror and say "I am at least partially to blame." Then he can get on with the rest of his life.

Furthermore, can I just thank him for giving me the only laugh that I have had since my own terrible situation began on Saturday night. This is hilarious!

Also PHXFlyer has started a new post poll regarding why I only received a warning when he will receive an infraction leading to a temporary ban. As this is a site that has been set up to help consumers who are having problems with airlines, what PHXFlyer has done is purposefully ignored the point of my arguement, and instead of helping me, has only served to twist the knife in further. I for one, do not think that this is reason for this website. Please feel free to visit his poll and vote on it.

Again, my sincerest condolencies (albeit tongue in cheek - his quote) for your ban. Rough justice eh? We are both experiencing it now!

Wait wait a second, Phx gets an infraction and this guy isn't banned for his latest comments which involve some serious vulgarities and that's doesn't deserve a ban? Someone's not reading their board properly, nor are they taking action soon enough. So does this open the door for everyone to use vulgarities against other members on an open board?

i was wondering the same thing

it seemed like chrisal came out of the blue firing vulgar language where none was needed, if you dont agree withsome that doesnt mean call them names and drop every curse word and degrigatory comments out there, it just means that you have to find ways to get around it.....everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if you dont agree with something than argue about it or talk about the differences in opinion........throwing out those words is just inapropriate no matter where you are, it can only harm the cause, and makes it seem immature and childish

i personally do not see what phx did to get a ban, definatly not compared to chrisal, i am all for open debate and whatnot, and equality but from this "example" i dont see how this is fair at all

i understand how chrisal is frustrated from the situation and i am sorry that it happened, but what was said was uncalled for and i know he may have been in the "heat of the moment" but there has to be some amount of control taken where some civility is in place, calling people names like that is just inapropriate

i also question how chrisal said things about phx family being parapalegic, calling him a pedophile, threatening that he would kill him (I'll tell you what you @#(*ing *&nt why don't you personally show me which mirror you want me to look at and I'll be quite happy to smash it over your %#!%ing head and stab you in the neck with it? Then I will be able to get on with my life. Fair enough? I think so. Now !@#k off you paedophile.)

and saying he hopes the next plane he is on crashes? comon dude thats just messed up


i think that something should be looked at and reviewed

i agree that you should be helped in some way, and that the airline should have provided you with assistance about a travel visa, even though it is your responsibility to get your own visas you asked and they didnt give you the correct answer so they should shoulder some blaim....if they aren't/weren't allowed to provide that info or dont have it than all they have to do is tell you to ask the embassy or check on the embassy website

i agree that there should have been assistance, i dont agree with your lack of control when someone doesnt agree with you and a uncalled for rant full of explicitives and threats

In all honesty I am not in the least bit concerned if I have insulted anybody with my impressive volley of insults presented to PHX. What I was concerned with was his original attack on me when he said, "you're still putting all of the blame on the airline. Do this. Go to the mirror, and say to yourself, "I was at least partially to blame for this mess." Feel better now? Good. Now you can get on with your life."

I came on this site for help, not to be ripped apart and insulted. It seems that this site is full of airline sympathizers. Infact many of the responses I have received since posting my story have been very similar to what I have been hearing from Delta. They too purposefully ignore the point to my arguement and offer little or no compassion either.

On top of everything else going on for me at the moment I read this comment from PHX and that is it. I lost all the patience and composure I had been keeping inside of me since Sat night. I am just thankful that the owner of this website is pro-consumer because it seems that all the readers work for Delta or some other lying heartless inhumane robotic American airline company. If I was banned the only contributors would be the sympathizers of the faceless corporates who give no regard for the lives of the consumer that they are ruining.

One suggestion; if you don't like my language why don't you stay away. Perhaps you could look at the Barbie website where there isn't any offensive expletives. And if you don't like the fact that this website favours the consumer why don't you log into Delta Airlines .com. You could join their fanclub and buy their souvenir hostesses calendar for 2010.

I've got a lot more to be worried about at the moment than to be bothered if I've upset a few airline complaints enthusiasts.

Mars, my lack of control was not caused by someone disagreeing with me, it was caused by his pathetic remarks re me looking in the mirror saying that I was partially to blame and then getting on with my life. He had no need to write this and only did so to get a rise from me. He has no interest in my problem and his advise regarding looking in the mirror is disgraceful and insulting to me. I sent him back something that I felt was equally disgraceful and insulting.

Hope all goes well with the Manager...maybe face to face people are able to show a bit more compassion. One big lesson though is avoid US based airlines for international travel in future...especially the worst of the lot.. DELTA. They really are very very arrogant and anti-consumer. They recently went into bankruptcy, ripped off their suppliers and staff, and were rewarded by being given anti-trust immunity to take over NorthWest airlines becoming the largest airline in the world. If that isn't screwed up, I don't know what is.

Jimworks thanks for the encouragement! I don't suppose you would know how I might be able to get in touch with the american airline regulator or ombudsmen regarding the lies and lack of customer care that Delta have thrown at me? What would be the best way to go about it?
I actually had a woman call me today from Delta which I couldn't believe. However, it was a complete waste of time and although the call lasted for over an hour she refused to put herself in my position and accepted no part of the blame for what has happened. She even went so far as to say that even though Delta had told my girlfriend that she didn't need a visa to travel, it still wasn't their fault as it is not their job to tell people what they need to travel. I asked her why they didn't just tell my girlfriend that it isn't their job to tell her, instead of lying to her, and she just continued to repeat some legal nonsense.
The conversation went nowhere and left me without any doubt at all that Delta are the sickest, most arrogant, lying, cheating, thieving, double standard company that I have ever had the misfortune to get involved with. And what makes it all the worse is that I still have to fly home with them, when I decide that there isn't anything more I can do from here.

With regard to international travel: I would always rely in information supplied by the embassies/consulates of the countries in question. As to information provided by an airline: I would follow that ONLY if the airline appears to be under the impression that ADDITIONAL documents are required. For example, the embassy of country X says I only need a valid US passport, but Delta says I need a US passport AND a birth certificate, I would also bring the birth certificate knowing that there is no way I would ever win an argument, as to entry requirements, with Delta, or any other airline.

To second Jim's thoughts: If I lived in Buenos Aires, I'd take my chances with Aerolineas Argentinas, or LAN Chile, even if it meant I had to stay overnight, at my expense, en route, in Miami. Delta probably has made some nasty comments about you on their records by now. So, if you try to fly them again, you'll be walking into a hornet's nest.

i am still a little worried about how he made a comment that wasnt exactly harmful, just hinting that you should take some of the blaim since it is your responsibility for your own paperwork, and than you retaliate saying that you want to stab him in the neck and just some unexplainable comments that had nothing to do with anything

and if you read any of the other posts i commented on in this thread you would have realized that i was on your side

Chris,
Here is how to complaint to the DOT

Complaints about airline service other than safety or security issues may be registered with DOT's Aviation Consumer Protection Division (ACPD). You can call, write or use the web form.

Call the ACPD 24 hours a day at 202-366-2220 Calls are returned Monday through Friday, generally between 7:30 am and 5:00 pm Eastern time.


Write to:

Aviation Consumer Protection Division, C-75
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Ave, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20590

You can send a complaint, comment or inquiry electronically by using the web form.

http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm


Whether you call, write or use the web form, be brief and concise in the description of your problem and be sure to include the following information:

your name

address

daytime phone number (including area code) and e-mail address

name of the airline or company about which you are complaining

flight date

flight number if known

origin and destination cities of your trip.

If you send a letter, you should also include a copy (not the original) of your airline ticket or itinerary sheet and any correspondence you have already exchanged with the company.

You should also consider asking Delta for a copy of the telephone call. Many calls are recorded and you may have the right to a copy. If you can obtain this, and can prove you were mislead, I think you may have a reasonable chance of winning in small claims, if you have such a thing in Argentina. You may also ask the DOT if they are able to obtain a copy.

Delta will defend this vigorously though. If airlines had to stand behind the lies their staff tell customers they would go bankrupt. (Oh I forgot, Delta did go bankrupt, but somehow in the US, that's no deterrent!!)

Mars please note that I have no problem with you and fully realise that you were on my side. My problem is with PHX and for the way he antagonized me. If you read what he said about "looking in the mirror and getting on with my life" this was not meant to be helpful constructive advise, but was only written to make me look stupid and make my blood boil. Why do you think he got 2 strikes for it? And he has apparently been warned for this type of thing in the past and even served a ban before. He's a nasty piece of work who I'm sure finds my predicament quite funny and that's why he wrote what he wrote. And for me to read these words after coming on this site for help after receiving so much rubbish from Delta, well! I thought I'd be receiving help, not getting laughed at and ridiculed. So to get this was just a little too much.
So just to repeat, I have no arguement with you.

Butch C, I have a ticket with Delta that I still have to use, although the thought of flying with them makes me fell sick inside! What do you mean about "if I fly with Delta again, it will be like flying into a hornet's nest?" They can't stop me from flying home with them! And my girlfriend is going to have to use them when she finally gets a visa in mid-Jan. If she doesn't we will lose the tickets.
The sorry thing about this situation is that I only bought her a ticket with Delta because it was to be her first time flying and she was too scared to fly alone. I already had a one year return ticket that I unfortunately bought with Delta a year ago so the only way my girlfriend could fly with me was if she also flew with Delta. I wanted her to fly with someone else (Tam) as they were much cheaper but she was scared to fly alone. So we bought her ticket, but now, ironically, she will not only be flying alone (as I cannot wait til mid Jan to go home) but she will have to go throught the fascist interview with the US Embassy and have to pay 131 pesos for the priviledge. Paying this money will in turn allow her the priviledge of sitting in Atlanta airport for several hours so it is money well spent! No, if Delta had of told her to find the info out for herself when she asked what she would need for the trip, istead of lying to her, none of this would have happened and she would have chosen an airline that did not stop in the States, thus ruling out the visa necesity.

Jim thanks for the info, much appreciated. I've already asked them a couple of times for a copy of the tape but they refuse to be of any help whatsoever. Delta have been the most unhelpful group of lying individuals that I have ever come across so this doesn't really surprise me. Anyway I'll get this complaint sent off! Cheers! And how is the weather in England? I'll probably be back home next week, unlike my girlfriend who will have to wait until mid-jan for her visa.

i dont know if this will help, but maybe if you call the US embassy and ask if they could fast track the visa request, it is worth a try.........i know that it wont help with the delta problem but it would allow you to get her over sooner if it goes through (and its christmas season they may feel oh its a present, its the season of giving and may process the visa quickly as its a transit visa)

anyways back to the lack of decentcy and utter lost of common sense and customer service of delta.......maybe if you go to a media outlet and tell them that you asked delta what documents were needed and they provided the wrong/no info and didnt assist you until it was too late and wouldn't allow your gf to fly and that it has caused alot of pain and aggrivation and that you feel that they have ripped you off and are taking advantage of the situation....and that it must happen alot more frequently than people believe and that people have the right to know and a light needs to be shed on this matter (so if it doesnt help you than it may help others in the situation.......also it brings bad publicity to delta who than may accept the ticket and put your gf on a flight) not saying it will work but its a way

either way i wish you the best of luck and that you get to see and be with your gf asap and that delta shows some compassion

Chrisal wrote...

What do you mean about "if I fly with Delta again, it will be like flying into a hornet's nest?"

Because of your complaints Delta may have, unjustly, noted on your reservation record that you are a "trouble maker." Since travel on a South American airline is not an option be very carefull of what you say and do in the presence of Delta airport staff and flight attendants, or during any phone conversations with Delta. Bring a notepad with you so you can note any relevant comments, and your response to them. Include names (when available), times and dates. Make notes of any phone conversations you have (or have had) with Delta. Don't turn-over any notes to Delta staff unless you have copies.

Thanks for the advise Mars! I have already tried to ask the embassy to bring forward my girlfriend's visa interview date but they, like Delta did not want to help and said that they couldn't (or wouldn't) help. Also, as far as getting in touch with the media, I've just sent an email off to all the UK newspapers. Next I'm going to hunt out all US newspapers addresses and Argie ones too. Hopefully there is someone who wants to bring down these lying scumbags a peg or two!
My girlfriend's mother told me a story before about the brother of a friend of hers from Argentina who was supposed to be going to Ireland. However, when he arrived at the US he was detained for 2 days for flying into the country without the relevant transit visa. Eventually he was allowed to fly home to Argentina when a translator was found and he was fully interviewed nazi style. He was asked why he was travelling and who was he going to see and if he could prove if he had any money. The poor soul has never had the courage to leave his country since. Thanks US Customs!
I hate to think about my girlfriend if she had actually been allowed to fly and then held in the US like a terrorist before finally being shipped back home whilst I had to continue to Manchester and then Newcastle where I'm from. This type of thing obviously happens all the time, as normal people who have never travelled in their life just don't know info like; it is necessary to have a transit visa to transit in the US. However, his case is a bit different to ours as my girlfriend proactively asked Delta what she needed to travel and they told her lies. This is the problem. But we'll see what the press and the American aviation regulators make of it all now.

Thanks Butch I'll heed the warning! Nothing about Delta would surprise me now. I'll be careful with them.

i just thought of a scenerio where alot of problems could occur.......a death in the family, one who lives overseas, how would you be able to get over there since there would be no way to get the visa in such a short amount of time, and you dont have the money to pay for a more expensive flight?

and to the scenerio you told about your gf's mothers brothers friend (if i got that right) language barriers do not help at all and even though they say fair and equal treatment, you really never can tell unless they speak the same language or you understand english, they could have easily taken advantage of him, and they could see that he attempted to get a visa but unfortunatly it was the wrong one, so they should have let him continue his flight and just warn him that next time he needs to get the correct visa (as it may have been the embassys fault for issueing the wrong visa) and it can be hard to know exactly what the visa's say when you do not understand the language

also there is another website, flyertalk.com , which is a website that informs people about flying and issues, so i believe that you should warn others if you want/have time

another thing that may help you is if you write to the congressman/official in the country of origin (argentina) and explain the situation and see what they could do about it

i think we should all start an online petition to get airlines to have a page before purchasing that shows what documents may be needed through and to the final destinations (visa's, and any other documents, so that you can see if there are anything that you have to do........the airlines would than be happy than coz they wouldnt get frustrated customers at their feet, and than they could say that they saw the page with the requirements its the cust. responsibilit they saw it clear)

so my other suggestion is write to an official in argentina and maybe one in the US and explain that things need to be stated clearly and how it has effected you and cost money that you do not have (they cant see your finances so they cant say that you can or cant afford it) and ask them to see if delta will reimburse you or honor the ticket

I just did a test booking on Delta.com to travel from EZE (Buenos Aires) to MAN (Manchester, UK). After selecting the flights and at the bottom of the page where one is given the fare breakdown and the option to "Review and Purchase" the following appears:

When one clicks on the link provided, the following information is given:


Aftyer this information is displayed there is an area where one can fill in their nationality, what country they are originating in, their destination, etc. which links to IATA'a TimaticWeb application which will tell you exactly what is required in the way of passports, visas, etc.

And just to add to the above...

There was another whiner on this forum who claimed he had no idea a visa would be required for a US citizen to enter Australia. If you scroll down furhter on the page mentioned above you'll see this:


So do you see that all you imbeciles who think you can just go jetting off anywhere you goddam please without checking entry and transit requirements. Even the friendly nation of Australia requires a visa from ALL VISITORS. So now don't go crying the blues when you're turned away at the airport for not having the proper visa to travel.

with australia you can get it same day or within 24hours, and you can do it online and get accepted on the spot

The situations are not exactly analogous Phx. The US citizen who was going to Australia and didn't know they needed a visa was entering the country. A US citizen who is transiting through Australia, provided they are remaining within the airport terminal and staying less than 8 hours would not require a Visa.

Chrisal's girlfriend was not intending to visit the USA, she was simply intending to change planes there.

Chrisal,
Sorry you won't get to spend Christmas with your gf in Geordieland. The weather is pretty good actually, cold but clear blue skies and no rain!! I was in Newcastle on Thursday... so mild, no-one was wearing a coat!;)

yeah i heard the weather in england was pretty good, my parents arrived there this morning from singapore and said it was pretty cold at first (considering they got off at 5 or 6 in the morning and coming from hot singapore they would feel cold) to see my dads twin and family before coming to the US for xmas and new years

visas are a pain, if they are transit visas than it should be a quick electronic visa that can be printed at home, it shouldnt take weeks, as your not staying or moving there, however i do not see the use of transit visas if your staying in the airport