Another customer with items stolen from luggage
 

I travelled from Las Vegas to Bellingham, Washington on January 31st and had my expensive camera and lense stolen from my suitcase.

When I reported this a day later, customer service told me they would do nothing except make a report and send me a letter stating that they will not cover the item. With security rugulations only allowing you one carry on and personal item, it makes it hard to carry a large camera with bag on board unless you want to bring nothing else.

I am so apalled and its no wonder that these staff members are stealing from bags, they are getting away with it! Alaska Air claims that "... Our goal is to always provide safe, reliable transportation" They are failing. I will not travel with this airline again.

It is posted, it is written, with just about every airline that they will not be held responsible for expensive items in checked luggage. Cameras, computers, etc. NONE OF THEM should ever be in checked luggage. This is nothing new, it's been a universal policy among airlines for decades.

Your carry on could have been your camera bag, and just pack clothes in your checked luggage.

As a note, it is likely your stuff was stolen by TSA who scans the luggage, or Menzies who actually handle Alaska's luggage operations. There's no way to prove who did what. In the future, whomever you fly with, use TSA locks on your bags. Available online at any travel store. These are locks that TSA has a master key to. So if something goes missing, you can point the finger accurately.

Thank you for your note but I think that your are missing an important point.

Regardless of who stole from my bag during this process, travellers deserve to feel comfortable and secure when they check bags. It is that simple. The airline should take some responsibility for a system that is obviously flawed. I will also file a complaint with TSA.

Also, I don't carry clothing on board and as a nervous traveller, my carry consists of things that ensure my comfort on board such as books, magazines and a pillow and blanket. This does not allow for me to carry another backpack with camera.

Simply said, the finger cannot be pointed at one organization alone, this is a collective problem and as an Alaska airline customer during this trip, I expect a certain amount of courtesy and responsibility from the airline....regardless of the fine print.

Gromit has no basis for saying

There have been numerous cases of thieving airline employees taking customers stuff, and many have been prosecuted. He goes on to contradict himself by stating the more truthful "there is no way of knowing who took it". But what the customer does know is this: they placed their luggage in the care of the airline, and the airline didn't take sufficient care of it to ensure it was delivered whole to the customer.

You should file a claim with the DOT. This might help. Spirit Airlines was fined a couple of years ago for refusing to cover laptops left in luggage. This was found to be unlawful by the DOT.

Thank you for the tip
 

I agree. I have a problem with the airline refusing to take any responsibility for their cutomers basic travel needs.

If that is the case, agents should ask you each and every time you check in to ensure you have not packed valuables and state that they take no responsibility for the contents.

Thank you for your tip on reporting with the DOT. In the meantime, I will choose airlines that meet these needs.

Seriously Jim? So TSA can't possibly be guilty of taking things out of peoples bags? And there are "no" cases of TSA thefts? I know you didn't say it but it would seem that way. So you mean the guys with the actual x-ray machines and tools to break locks, can't possibly be.... thieves? Wait, wait...


This was in 2004 - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in643165.shtml


This was taken last year - http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-b...-From-MIA.html


One more? How bout my personal favorite?
http://gone-hollywood.com/2008/10/ts...00-hbo-camera/


To say Gromit has no basis is bull. It is HIGHLY likely that the camera was taken by a TSA agent. If ever valuables go missing from a checked bag I'd blame TSA first and foremost.

To the OP: if you wanna find out who took your camera, or look to be compensated for the loss you cannot blame one. Blame all! Start with TSA, whom are the first hands in the cookie jar and work your way from their. You cannot automatically assume an airline agent took it, though jim is correct, Airline agents are not innocent, they steal as well. But it is also well documented that TSA agents, customs agents, hell even police officers have a tendency to "dip in the till".

I would also agree with Jim that though the airlines state they are not responsible for the loss of valuables doesn't mean it's open season to your stuff. I would file a claim and if they won't do it, file a lawsuit (small claims). If you have receipts for the camera or any documents (credit card statements, online receipts, warranty) all would be most helpful.

I would also follow Gromit's suggestion and get a TSA lock on all future checked lugguage so if something does go missing you know who to blame first hand. Make sure before the bag leaves your site all the locks are in place. Finally, regardless of the check bag rule, never pack your valuables, medication, important documents. That's just common sense.

TO the OP:

Some bad advice above that you can safely ignore.

When the airline accepts your check in bags they put themselves in the position of a bailee. They are responsible to return it to you at the end of the flight. It is for the airline, not for you to monitor where this bag goes and to ensure that no one steals from it.

TSA conducts the scans right there under the nose of the airline and you as the passenger do not have to point any fingers as to who stole. You demand compensation from the airline, and let the airline investigate.

It may be a good idea not to put electronics, cameras into checked bags if they can fit in your carry on, but notwithstanding their disclaimers, the airline is responsible both under the DOT regulations and under the principles of the common law. If they want you to check these items, then they can't at the same time limit your space in the cabin.

And this from Cicero:


First sin... ooops I mean Cicero, don't reply to me in private in such a manner, I'll out you. Doesn't matter if the mods do anything or not (most likely not) it gives the other members a heads up. Second it doesn't matter if TSA works "right under the airlines noses" that hasn't stopped them from stealing. My examples have proven that. You ask me "how does the passenger start blaming everyone? Easy file a claim with both TSA and the airlines, report it to local authorities. Why so? what if there's a rash of thefts on either side? Possible, no? Keep all documents, document whom you speak to and at what time.

Oh and that's "frequent flyer jackass to you."

wait...... ahhhh forget it.

Cicero attacks yet again
 

Why do I hint the smell of sinfail......


After I will just ignore him, why waste my words.

Bob,
Did you just spend ages writing a response which rebutting claims I didn;t make? What was the point of that?

I did not say TSA don't steal, nor did I imply it. I simply stated that there is no evidence they are more likely to steal than airline employees. None of your links provide that evidence.

In these days of digital CCTV, there is no excuse for the TSA and the airlines not having comprehensive video coverage of the bags. In particular, there should be video of every bag opened by the TSA and when a customer complains of theft, the video digitally recalled and checked. That would inhibit the TSA thieves and perhaps help uncover some of the airline thieves.

Love that idea. Probably cost may be why it's not already done but it would be great for the customer. Wouldn't stop the airline thieves that already exist but it would cut down on any TSA sticky fingers.

The cost, compared to the staggering scale of the loss through theft, is pretty minimal. Almost all shops these days have CCTV..don't tell me airlines, airports and the TSA can't come up with the money. It isn't an original idea.. I understand when a bag is opened in the UK, by Customs or security, it is filmed. It doesn't just protect the customer.. it also protects the honest employees from false allegations.

This board had a somewhat similar discusson almost a year ago. I guess the powers that be didn't read that thread otherwise this problem might have already been well on the way to being fixed.

Video monitoring thread

Look on EBAY and if you find your stuff call the police.

i want to know how many carry on items the OP had. he states he had his books, magazines, pillow, and blanket, that could be put into one backpack. you are allowed 2 carryons. rollerboard and personal item. he says he couldn't carry another backpack with the camera in it...why not? you could have, thats 2 carry ons. if they state reliable safe transportation...they did that right? you made it to your destination safe, just without your camera unfortunetly

Jim the point of my statement was to show that Gromit does actually make a point (Where you say he has no basis and you "appear" to disagree with him) and also that there is more than enough evidence out there to show it's very possible and more than likely a TSA agent could/is more than likely to have stolen the OP's camera as opposed to an airline agent.

I know that, but in your first statement you push blame solely on the airline and in the second you state:


Really? but that hasn't stopped them from doing it and I've given you three, CURRENT examples of theft by a tsa agent, one of which was very high profile - the TSA agent who stole the HBO camera and mind you he was not caught on CCTV he was caught trying to sell that camera on ebay! You think having CCTV deters theft? I think not sir.

First, I am a she. Second, I was told that I could have one carry on and a purse and that I could not bring my camera bag on board unless I wanted to check my carry on which contains simple items to ensure my comfort, items that the airline no longer provides for customers.
If I had to carry everything on board that I didn't want stolen, I could never travel. This is insane!!

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...ith-theft.html

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0809/653820.html

http://www.denverda.org/News_Release...20forgery.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1123292.html

Bob, I am not defending the TSA. It seems to be staffed by people who are too stupid to work for a real public security agency like the Police or FBI. I also have no doubt that they have a lot of thieves working for them. I have made more links for you. It doesn't prove anything, other than what I said. There is simply no basis for claiming that the TSA are more likely to steal from a passengers bag than an airline employee. Indeed, scroll down on the first link and look at the comments. There an airline employee admits it is a regular occurance and he is one of the thieves!

No Bob.. I said that there was no way to know did it. However, we do know one thing. The bag was in the care of the airline when it was robbed.

On CCTV, it does not always act as a deterrent, but it would allow crimes to be investigated and the culprit found, if they are TSA. I am sure it would act as a deterrent if they knew every time that it was filmed and traceable.

Anyway, I am offering you a compromise. Many TSA and many airline employees are a bunch of thieves.

TO Ms Hexton:

There is nothing insane about air travel. There are adequate remedies and the most obvious is a complaint to DOT which people don't bother with and a claim in small claims court which still less people pursue.

Some airline diehards seem to be missing the point which I think you have recognised, which is that the airline's liability arises not from your being able to identify that the theft came from its employees or agents. In fact the suggestion that you blame TSA is only a distraction to you.

You don't need to talk about theft at all. That is usually a matter for the police.

A passenger's claim is a civil claim. He gives the airline his bag at the start of the trip and at the end he says to the airline, just hand over my bags otherwise pay for my stuff lost while the bag was in your care. The airline doofuses don't appreciate that t's not the passenger's concern how the bag was pilfered.

The moment you start talking theft, you put the burden of proof on yourself and it is a heavy burden, to prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.


The pertinent point here is as Jimworcs says:

[html]
However, we do know one thing. The bag was in the care of the airline when it was robbed.

[/html]

And that's all you need to prove, plus the value of the lost camera.

It only adds to the strength of your claim that the airlines have not set up the simple steps of monitoring the bags with security cameras. It is not at all costly as someone suggested. These things have become so cheap now that for a few thousand dollars a homeowner can have a string of cameras around his home connected to a computer and monitor through the internet from a remote location.

ok, sorry you didn't state you were a she. i manage to carry everything i dont want stolen with me. camera, video camera, ipod, laptop, blanket and at times a pillow, all fit into a bag. my best friend has a $2000 professional camera he also carrys on along with a backpack and has never had problems

Lucky for you and your friend.
The airline did not allow this in my case.
From now on, I will pack dollar store clothing, 99 cent shoes in an old cheap bag because I am not willing to put all of personal items in the hands of a system that is taking no responsibility for lost items.
In the meantime, I am confident I can find an airline which provides top customer care and puts the CUSTOMER first, even if this means only flying on Canadian airlines going forward.

Also, I feel like people are forgetting about customer service, going above and beyond to ensure that customer needs are met. These are the businesses that will flouish while the ones that have piles of unsatisfied customers complaining on this site along with a variety of social and mainstream media outlets will suffer. Never underestimate the power of bad publicity in a airline business where customers have choice and the companies that commit to doing WHATEVER they can for customers will come out on top.

This was the first time I flew Alaska after seeing a brutal story years ago about their baggage staff. One time is enough for me, that's for sure. Should have trusted the first news story but you live and learn.

It is astonishing how airline employees have become adept at blaming the victim. The customer is a victim of a crime. Cortney, in a typically stellar performance by an airline employee, seeks to blame the victim, because they shouldn't expect airline employees or TSA employees to be honest. Why not? Outrageous

First Jim, I didn't say you were defending TSA, I actually agreed with you that airline agents are thieves (so you don't have to sell me on that, I know). I said your statements appear to blame one party and I say why not blame both? If BOTH are prone to stealing, why blame one party?

No Jim, you didn't say that... GROMIT said it, you merely quoted him in your reply that started with Gromit no basis for saying. Need a refresher?

Unless you were referring to this statement:

I never said you said TSA don't steal nor did you imply it, I merely stated your response was too one side. And I don't see how my links are wrong, they clearly show TSA agents caught in the act of stealing from passengers bags, the end results they were fired and prosecuted. How are the links you provided different from mine? Can I argue that your links provide no evidence to your cause? I don't think so.

If that were true yes. But obviously it does not as theft by TSA agents is still on going. You would think that if a CCTV camera was in plain site people would be LESS LIKELY to steal, and I say yet again, it doesn't deter crime. If the person who has it in his heart to steal wants something, he will take it.

Oh and jim, you can choose the "compromise" cop out but I choose not to compromise on this one. You talk a big game, but point for point you cannot keep up. Your links (evidence) support your argument as do the links I provide support mine, but in the end its your one-sided nice that will always be your loss. Always.

WHOA!! i didn't blame the victim of ANYTHING!! is it their fault that TSA or an airline employee stole the camera?? NO! but it is their fault that they checked in an expensive camera, where the airlines policy (all airlines) state they are not responsible for lost items as such. if i were the poster i would have decided to forget the blanket and pillow and carry on my camera. i'll wear a jacket to keep warm. i think its terrible that this kind of crap happens to passengers and i would be ticked off too. i think both parties are to blame. im sure some tsa employees are theives as well as some employees. but i have worked the ramp part at a small airport and believe me, it gets chaiotic out there, and i dont know where some would find time to open any random suitcase and start stealing

1. The one carry on and one personal item rule is not an airline rule. It is an FAA Regulation and enforced by TSA. The airline AND the passenger can be fined for breaking that regulation.

2. It is up to the passenger to decide what it important to them. If their "comfort" items are more important then their expensive camera gear, that's the passenger's choice.

I'm a serious film photographer in conjunction with my career as a graphic artist. I will often have to pack photo gear and a laptop. There are camera backpacks with enough room to pack both, as well as clothing and comfort items, and still fit in the overhead.

Check the Tamrac Expedition Series.

Gromit......I believe you're mistaken. According to the FAA's travelers website, they advise passengers to check with the airline as to the size and number of carryons allowed. Here is a snipet that I'll provide the link for later.........."Check with your airline before packing to determine it's carry-on guidelines regarding the number of items you may carry and the maximum size of those items."

FAA's travel website

Also, the TSA is not the enforcer, the FAA is. TSA is part of Homeland Security not the FAA or even DOT.

This wasn't part of what I did so this will serve as my disclaimer for any wrong statements. Haha.....I'm covered.

Bob,
I know you love this kind of pedantry, so I will make this my last rebuttal on this topic or it will never end.

My basic premise is this: there is simply no evidence to prove that the TSA are more likely to steal items from your bag than airline employees.

You posted links to stories about thieving TSA employees. I posted links to stories about thieving airline employees. Neither address the basic premise. All we have proved is that both organisations have thieves.

Gromit said I challenged this and said there was no basis for him saying this.

Nothing you have said in your elaborately pseudo-forensive responses contradicts that. Neither Gromit nor you have any clue who stole the OP's stuff and neither of you can say with any evidence, that is it more likely to be the TSA vs an Airline Employee.

That is my position... and now, I am done on that topic, so your next post will be the last word. Fill your boots!

Gromit,
Despite airlines seeking to disclaim responsibility for items which are in their care, I do not think they can impose terms and conditions which absolve them of their legal obligations. The best avenue is to go to the DOT and Small Claims. The airlines will often lose and some, such as in my earlier link, such as Spirit have been fined by the DOT for attempting to do so.

Yes, they can pose terms and conditions. Just like renting an apartment, or sending stuff via UPS. Anyone can impose terms and conditions in a business transaction.

Since TSA has been documented for stealing items from bags, I have quite a solid basis for saying this.

Gromit,
Yes indeed... any business can impose Terms and Conditions.. except where those terms and conditions breach regulations, international treaties or the law. For international travel, these are governed by treaty and no airline can create T&C's which abrogate that treaty. Therefore on international travel, the airline cannot exclude electrical items. This doesn't seem to stop them trying. Equally, for domestic travel, the airlines are regulated (with a light touch, sadly) by the DOT. Despite their best efforts, airlines cannot change the regulations by putting it in their T&C's. This explains why many airlines have been heavily fined by the DOT when they are found to be in breach. I have provided a link to a fine for Spirit in an earlier posting, in which one of the breaches was specifically an attempt by Spirit to refuse to cover the theft of a laptop.

So, I am afraid you are wrong. You can impose Terms and Conditions, except where they breach the law.

Yes jim, move on because you're really bad at this. You're right, your original stance was not to say that TSA is more likely to steal than an airline employee, you're original stance doesn't statement doesn't mention TSA, Your original statement tries to refute gromit's statement, who originally said "There's no way to know who took it".



Jim = Fail

My original point was to show that a TSA could have done it as well. Why argue that? Why ask who is more likely than who to steal if BOTH are capable of it? (again my original stance). It doesn't matter if you provide links that says its an ongoing issue. It's an ongoing issue on both sides. My original point was to show that TSA is capable of theft. And to the OP I included both parties rather than point fingers at one. Here's a reminder:


Yes jim, let this go. This is much to big for you to even attempt to defend, because you simply don't know how or just too blinded by what Delta did to you.

Apparently this board has an examiner in the person of Mr Silent.

Better keep silent, Mr Silent.

Sinfa... I mean Jerkero.... I thought signing up twice was an automatic banning? You can try to silence me..... but it ain't happenin.

And the terms and conditions set by the airlines do not breach US law. Just like leaving your car at a garage, they post they are not responsible for belongings left in the car. This has been upheld in courts.

That analogy doesn't work Gromit... a garage with public access is in a very different position compared to an airline which charges people to transport their luggage and keep it in their care. What is your explanation for Spirit being fined by the FAA for refusing to cover a laptop, even though electronic items are excluded in their T&Cs?

Where in my post did I say anything about public access? If I take my car across the street to the garage (repair shop) they are not responsible for items left in the car. It's posted, and upheld in the courts.

It's upheld by the courts but the DOT imposes fines on Spirit for not accepting responsibility for a laptop.. what could the explanation be? We will never know, but you never answer the question.

My senior partner and mentor Silent Bob Jerkero says that there is a DOT regulation saying that once the airline accepts the bag, whatever is in it is protected.

Here is the link

http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/webnotice_04012009.pdf

Notices disclaiming liability are not always accepted by the Courts as binding even if it is posted.

Silent Bob Jerkero considers (and I agree with him), in the case of a car being taken to the garage, the owner can reasonably be expected to clear the car and leave his belongings at home. So the disclaimer is not onerous on him. In the case of the passenger, it may impose an unfair burden on him to comply with a requirement not to check in electronics if it is too large to fit in his carry on.

I'd like to say this is my last post on this site.

Probably a wise move. You will be missed though. I will especially miss our PM's in which you've shown me what kind of a guy you truly are. The board will never know the the real you. So long, Sybil.

This is the pm from The Judge
 

Private Message: Re: Quiet in here, isn't it??
http://www.airlinecomplaints.org/ima...n/post_old.gif Yesterday, 08:40 AM
The_Judge http://www.airlinecomplaints.org/ima...er_offline.gif
Former Airline Employee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 451


http://www.airlinecomplaints.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Quiet in here, isn't it??
You should have your own tv show. It could be called, "I'm a ****face and have no life so I have to go to airline websites to make myself feel good".

When my mom was getting paid to be ****ed, she was taking dollars not baht. Get your ****en facts straight, you imbecile. You like to make your ideas fit the story despite the facts. What a **********. How much do you get paid to suck ****? I hear you do it for free cuz you like the taste right after it comes out of your ass.


Judge I wasn't goint to post again, but since you were brazen to come here to talk about pms, perhaps the board should see the above pm you sent me, esp what you had to say about your own mother.