[Vfguy]

I checked in for a return flight from Pittsburgh to Phoenix and we were about 30 minutes late waiting for the flight crew that was stuck on a shuttle in traffic. We board and after 20 minutes are told there is a leak of some sort and the pilot spent the next 40 minutes trying to find out the status. I saw all the luggage being taken off the plane and not until that was completed did the pilot tell us we would have to exit the plane and wait 4 hours for another plane to arrive.

Everything in Pittsburgh shuts down around 8pm so good luck finding food.

The plane arrives, we get on and then are stuck on the runway because of something to do with the weight of the aircraft. The flight attendants do a head count and they we take off.

We land 5 hours late in Phoenix and get nothing but a bunch of appologies. Not even a meal in Pittsburgh even though I asked. Didn't even bother to let us know at which carousel we could retrieve our luggage. At least the luggage actually arrived.

89 people missed their connections.

Nice of an airline to take better care of the luggage than the passengers!

I'm just thankful that I don't have to fly that often anymore because these airlines all stink!

[xjcaptain]

Would you prefer to fly in an aircraft with a mechanical issue? I'd certainly prefer taking a delay to get it repaired. They certainly should't ignore it based on the operating hours of a particular airports restaurants.

[jimworcs]

This was not a complaint that the airline should have taken off with a mechanical fault...and it is fatuous to respond in this way. The complaint is about the lack of communication and any effort to take care of the basic needs of passengers. The OP was not asking the airline to operate unsafely, it is ridiculous to suggest that he did.

[Vfguy]

TY Moderator. I worry about someone who can't read and uses incredibly faulty logic flying airplanes! :-)

[xjcaptain]

I don't see a lack of communication. You know why the flight was late originally, late crew. You know why it was further delayed, maintenance. You know why it was delayed during taxi, weight issues. As far a knowing which bag carousel perhaps looking at one of the many monitors located in the baggage claim area would be appropriate. I just don't see any lack of communication. Frustration about delays is understandable, but it is just that. Frustration. You also started that the restaurants were closed what would you suggest the airline do about that? You do know that the restaurants are not operated or controlled by the airlines right? Airlines are in the transportation business, not the food industry so most adults should be capable if providing for their own nourishment. The delay was in the terminal, not in the aircraft, so nobody was held in a confined place with no options.

[jimworcs]

Lack of communication:

I saw all the luggage being taken off the plane and not until that was completed did the pilot tell us we would have to exit the plane and wait 4 hours for another plane to arrive

Poor service:

If it was known the aircraft was no longer servicable, as indicated by the actions of the ground crew in removing the bags, then the passengers should have been let off the aircraft. Perhaps then, there would have been time for them, as adults, to take care of their own food needs.

Too often, airlines herd passengers around like cattle, causing enormous inconvenience and discomfort for their own operational convenience. After much lobbying around the rules regarding passengers being held hostage on the ground, the rules forcing airlines to behave decently, by offering water, air conditioning, toilet facilities and the option to disembark was implemented. The airlines screamed that this would cause havoc, massive delays and the world would come to an end. In fact, none of this happened. The truth is, the airlines simply don't care about the inconvenience to passengers.. they care about their own costs and operational convenience.

[xjcaptain]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Lack of communication:



Poor service:

If it was known the aircraft was no longer servicable, as indicated by the actions of the ground crew in removing the bags, then the passengers should have been let off the aircraft. Perhaps then, there would have been time for them, as adults, to take care of their own food needs.

Really, that's the big complaint? The 10 - 15 minutes it most likely took to remove baggage? You do know that the pilots were most likely very busy working on the issue, discussing it with all the various departments including the local station, the ramp controller, the dispatcher, the maintenance controller, and the local mechanics as well as keeping the flight attendants informed not to mention the passengers. When you are wearing 10 different hats managing a very fluid situation, that 10-15 minutes can go by quite quickly. In the back it may seem that time drags but I can guarantee you ahead of the flight deck door they were very busy. Not to mention that during the entire delay, do not forget that the flight attendants as well as the pilots were not getting paid. If the door isn't closed, and the aircraft hasn't began to taxi....nada. The perspective is quite different when you actually know what it takes to get a flight out of the gate vs whining about a few minutes that were irrelevant since it took several hours before the flight finally departed. I'm sure the crew was just as anxious to get the flight out and either get home or off to the hotel for what was now likely to be a very short night on FAA reduced rest. (Probably 5 hours of actual sleep before the next 12-16 hour duty day).

[jimworcs]

This illustrates precisely the problem. Lets accept that the captain had made the decision to disembark, as suggested by his order to have the luggage removed. Having made that decision, the right action was to notify the customers (it is a service you are providing) and set things in motion to minimize the impact of the inconvenience to them. This is simple and instead you highlight all the busy, operational things that are keeping you busy, filling out manifests, logging the faults, calling ops and whatever else you have to do. The flight was going nowhere, safety is not an issue, the priority now is customer comfort and convenience. The rest of the stuff... whether it be staff issues or operational matters comes second.

I am not a pilot, but I know you guys are very busy. I have flown in the cockpit jumpseat a number of times (admittedly prior to 9/11, so some time ago). I was shocked at how busy it was up there, before, during and after the flight. My perception before then was that the plane "flew itself". I was quickly disabused of that notion. However, this is not the issue. The issue is timing and communication and attempting to mitigate the effects of the problem.

The issue of pay arrangements is utterly bogus. You accepted the T&C's of the job you are doing.... we all have choices. I work in healthcare....I cannot count the number of hours I have put in unpaid. It goes with the job..... you think I could walk out of the emergency room after my shift has finished? Think again.

There is a disregard for passengers and the standards of service and even civility have declined dramatically in US based airlines.... it needs to change.

[xjcaptain]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

This illustrates precisely the problem. Lets accept that the captain had made the decision to disembark, as suggested by his order to have the luggage removed. Having made that decision, the right action was to notify the customers (it is a service you are providing) and set things in motion to minimize the impact of the inconvenience to them. This is simple and instead you highlight all the busy, operational things that are keeping you busy, filling out manifests, logging the faults, calling ops and whatever else you have to do. The flight was going nowhere, safety is not an issue, the priority now is customer comfort and convenience. The rest of the stuff... whether it be staff issues or operational matters comes second.

I am not a pilot, but I know you guys are very busy. I have flown in the cockpit jumpseat a number of times (admittedly prior to 9/11, so some time ago). I was shocked at how busy it was up there, before, during and after the flight. My perception before then was that the plane "flew itself". I was quickly disabused of that notion. However, this is not the issue. The issue is timing and communication and attempting to mitigate the effects of the problem.

The issue of pay arrangements is utterly bogus. You accepted the T&C's of the job you are doing.... we all have choices. I work in healthcare....I cannot count the number of hours I have put in unpaid. It goes with the job..... you think I could walk out of the emergency room after my shift has finished? Think again.

There is a disregard for passengers and the standards of service and even civility have declined dramatically in US based airlines.... it needs to change.

Looks like you are grasping for straws for things to be upset about. The people were kept apprised of the situation every step of the way, and deplaned in a timely manner. The airline then provided a replacement aircraft and the people arrived within a few hours of the scheduled arrival time without safety being compromised. Also keep in mind that the crew may not have even been made aware of the decision to remove the baggage. It is quite common for the ground crew to be advised before the flight crew, and typically the captain does not "order" the bags to be removed. That decision typically comes from the ground station based on a variety of factors, including security issues and type of cargo being carried (live animals, hazmat, etc).

My opinion is that this was most certainly an inconvenience for everyone involved, but was handled in a proper manner.

As far as the issue of pay the only reason I brought that up is that most of the public isn't aware of how flight crews are paid, and I have seen passengers accuse flight crews of delaying flights at the gate in order to make extra money which is entirely ridiculous.

You also mentioned the customer service aspect with the decision to deplane "set in motion". You may have hit on something there without even realizing it. When the decision to deplane is made, we do not just dump the passengers back to the gate without the agents being made aware of the situation. It may take a few minutes to get the agent back to the gate, and possibly have an extra person or two get to the gate to get in place to answer questions and work on re-booking if that is going to be an option. People would be irate if they were released to the gate and nobody was there to help or answer questions. All these things take time.

You also talk about the busyness in the cockpit and how the passenger convenience should come first. You may not realize that that might be exactly what they were doing. Delaying those tasks will most certainly delay the eventual resolution which may entail getting maintenance to the aircraft or starting a plan in motion to get another aircraft in position. People like to complain, I understand that and have done so myself at times. This however seems to have been a rather minor issue that was handled quite well. If the OP was just venting that's fine, but the airline did what was expected.