[pkgofgkp]

I am sure this does not happen often.

I asked two more minutes to switch off my cell phone. But the lady attendant wanted it switched off "NOW". I tried to explain that I am sending a mail and its taking time to finish that operation and then I will switch it off as son as it done. Another attendant came and asked to switch my phone "NOW" I explained the same reason. He did not like it and said "you are off" and went away. My phone was off and I put it away. The lady attendant (who was standing right there all the time) conveyed to front that my phone is off and away. But the male attendant came back after 5 minutes told me to get off the plane and also said my bags are also taken out of the plane.

I went through all the rituals of explaining, begging, feeling sorry etc but he did not budge. And kept directing me out of the plane. And kept saying I was warned. BTW, I did tell him that I was on a international flight and I may miss it if I don't get back on this flight. That did not matter to him.

I wanted to know about my bags, nobody there was able to tell me about that. Apparently they were still on the plane.

Anyway, I actually had come out and the plane left the gate after spending 10 more minutes there.

Now you would think I may be a less frequent flyer etc. But the fact is I fly every week (in a better airline).

Anyway.. just want to know if anybody else has similar experiences?? Having difficulty accepting that this really happened to me. Was wondering if airlines are for passengers or passengers are for airlines.

And what should I do in addition to "pray for those flight attendants that they be forgiven" and doing deep breathing :-)

-a ******-off Guy

[PHXFlyer]

You were told multiple times and by two different flight attendants to turn off your phone. Obviously this was after the general announcement was made to turn off all electronic devices including cellphones. Instead of complying with their instruction to turn it off you made a case for keeping it on. Do you think that somehow you are above the rules and should get special treatment just because your e-mail was still being transmitted?

What you did was disobey the orders of the flight crew which is actually a federal offense punishable by fines and possible imprisonment. You are lucky you were just put off the flight and not arrested. Instead of "pray(ing) for those flight attendants that they be forgiven" (which I might add is a highly hypocritical statement since they were only doing their job) you should instead say a prayer of thanks that you weren't led away in handcuffs and charged with a crime.

[jimworcs]

The problem is Phx, there is no consistency. In another situation, he could have said can I have a couple of minutes to get this email off and they would have said yes. (I am not excusing his behaviour, he should have immediately complied when they said no the first time).

FA's have been given powers beyond their training and capability, as demonstrated by the regular stories of people who have been treated very badly by them, including my favourite, the 5 year old boy who disobeyed an order to stop saying "bye bye plane". Until this situation is rectified, passengers will be at the whim of the mood of people who have powers beyond their pay grade.

[Gromit801]

Same powers a cop has when he pulls you over for speeding. Usually you get the ticket but sometimes you get a warning.

No situation is 100% cut and dried. If the OP had cut off the phone on the first warning, they'd have continued on their flight. But there was the announcement, and two FA's instructing them to shut it off. Often, the plane is not going to move until the passenger complies.

Be thankful you weren't arrested, or smacked by other passengers being delayed by your selfishness.

[jimworcs]

My point exactly... the powers a cop has are serious and require significant amounts of training. They are also highly regulated by the judicial system. FA's don't have the training, (nor in some cases the intelligence or sensibility) to exercise such powers and have acquired them almost by default. It is a mistake which should be rectified.

Just to be clear, I did not and DO NOT defend the actions of the OP...

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

My point exactly... the powers a cop has are serious and require significant amounts of training. They are also highly regulated by the judicial system. FA's don't have the training, (nor in some cases the intelligence or sensibility) to exercise such powers and have acquired them almost by default. It is a mistake which should be rectified.

Just to be clear, I did not and DO NOT defend the actions of the OP...

CNBC produced a documentary "Inside American Airlines." You can view it here on Hulu.com. In it they show flight attendants in recurrent training, not new-hires, being trained in self-defense, how to properly use restraints, etc. I believe one senior flight attendant interviewed said back in the day we were issued white gloves and now we're issued hand cuffs. The friendly skies aren't so friendly any more. Prior to 9/11 flight attendants probably had to put up with the same kind of crap they do today. Post 9/11 they now have ways of dealing with it which is backed up by the law.

I think we can all agree that a cellphone or blackberry or similar device isn't going to bring down an airplane but rules are rules. When you're told it's time to turn them off then turn them off. The OP's refusal to comply could have been indicative of his behavior in any situation and the crew did not wish to risk him being a problem once they were underway. Suppose the plane veered off the runway and he was told, "Go open that emergency door now!" and his reply was, "In a moment, let me grab my carry on first."

[jimworcs]

Notwithstanding being shown how to restrain someone, the training of FA's is nowhere near the level of their powers...

The OP was stupid to persist, but it doesn't change my basic point... the lack of consistency and utter capriciousness of the decision making. In this example, sounds like one of the FA's was drunk on power and more interested in exercising it than the other...

Incidently, Hulu does not permit streaming outside of the US.. so sadly I can't see your example...

[pkgofgkp]

PHX: Thanks a lot got taking to reply here. I wouldn't have got a reply earlier than this else where. I am sure u work for AA and get paid to reply here and you are doing a good job.

And to Yr point (and that of Gro...) of being arrested and imprisonment.. all that are far fetched and extreme measures and it would have unfortunate for everybody involved if that had happened.
You totally missed the point: I never said I will not obey the "orders" and keep my phone ON no matter what !!!! I just said I need few moments to switch it off. They never gave me any time. It was a small plane and they made the announcement and came to my seat and remained there waiting for me to turn it of. I have never seen that before. I observe that every week when I fly. They make announcements and go on rounds and make announcements again and by that time everybody complies.

And I am not even defending my actions. I am just saying that asking to leave the plane was a little too much.
Laws are made for the safety of people and using a cell phone for 2 more minutes was not going to cause any harm to anybody.

To all AA representative here......"Its easy to say that I dis-obeyed and that's why I was punished" But the situation could have been handled in 100 other ways and it was unfortunate that the FA chose this way.

To substantiate Jim.... point that there is no consistency on how FA behave.... on my next flight... the FAs were very cheerful and pleasant. They kept standing behind a passenger (without him noticing and smiling while he kept using his phone after the announcements. She waited fr a while and they asked him to switch off and in a very cheerful ways.
But I was not so lucky my flight got some FA who just wanted to prove that they had powers. Which, BTW, Nobody denies'

-PKG

[The_Judge]

PHX....how many airlines do you work for now? You get told this all the time. Your pension (if there are any left) will be great.

This is a case where the "nice" FA's make it hard for the others to make sure the rules are enforced. When a passenger gets some leeway once, he/she makes the argument," They let me do it in xxx" It's unfortunate and makes the "bad" FA look like a monster when he/she is actually doing what is correct.

To the OP....you said " never said I will not obey the "orders" and keep my phone ON no matter what !!!!"

I think you have missed the point. You were told (your own words), "But the lady attendant wanted it switched off "NOW", and "Another attendant came and asked to switch my phone "NOW"

You were not following the request of the crew. That's a no-no nowadays. As Jim said, might have been a power-drunk FA and I tend to agree but one should really follow the requests of a crew member or bad things can happen.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

PHX....how many airlines do you work for now? You get told this all the time. Your pension (if there are any left) will be great.

Let's see, I work or have worked for US Airways (ugh), Southwest (might consider it however I have skinny legs and hate wearing shorts), Continental (I actually applied for a position in Houston several months ago, but decided I couldn't take the loss if I had to sell my house in the current market), and now AA. I don't know how the OP came up with that since all of AA's corporate operations are in Dallas (actually Irving I think) and all there is in Phoenix are airport positions. I think they might still have a call center down in Tucson but then again in this economy who knows.

If anyone can tell me how to collect all these paychecks and pensions, aside from the one waiting for me from "Ma Bell", I'd really like to know!

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by pkgofgkp

PHX: Thanks a lot got taking to reply here. I wouldn't have got a reply earlier than this else where. I am sure u work for AA and get paid to reply here and you are doing a good job.

See above.

Originally Posted by pkgofgkp

And to Yr point (and that of Gro...) of being arrested and imprisonment.. all that are far fetched and extreme measures and it would have unfortunate for everybody involved if that had happened.

It's a good thing you didn't refuse to deplane or you probably would have found yourself in a much worse situation. However your refusal to follow the instructions of not one but two crew members was indeed a violation of federal law and just for that they could have pressed charges and had you arrested. Again you were lucky that they merely asked you to leave the plane and didn't call law enforcement to meet you when you did.

Originally Posted by pkgofgkp

You totally missed the point: I never said I will not obey the "orders" and keep my phone ON no matter what !!!! I just said I need few moments to switch it off. They never gave me any time. It was a small plane and they made the announcement and came to my seat and remained there waiting for me to turn it of. I have never seen that before. I observe that every week when I fly. They make announcements and go on rounds and make announcements again and by that time everybody complies.

As The_Judge pointed out, it is you, sir, who "totally missed the point." You're trying to play the semantics game in an attempt to justify your actions. Bottom line is you were told to turn it off more than once and didn't.

Originally Posted by pkgofgkp

And I am not even defending my actions. I am just saying that asking to leave the plane was a little too much.

Laws are made for the safety of people and using a cell phone for 2 more minutes was not going to cause any harm to anybody. [/quote]

You say you aren't defending your actions and in the very next sentence go on to defend your actions. It doesn't matter that having the cell phone on is a critical safety issue or not. You were told to do something and not only did you not comply but verbally challenged two crew members. The second FA you encountered was most likely the head FA for that flight.

I will also take this opportunity to correct you on a point you made in your initial post. When you said "And what should I do in addition to pray for those flight attendants that they be forgiven..." you are blaming the FAs for removing you from the flight. The only person on the plane who can make that decision is the captain. When the 2nd FA you encountered left for the front of the plane he was reporting what had happened to the captain. It was the captain who decided to give you the boot.

Originally Posted by pkgofgkp

To all AA representative here......"Its easy to say that I dis-obeyed and that's why I was punished" But the situation could have been handled in 100 other ways and it was unfortunate that the FA chose this way.

Instead of thinking about the 100 other ways it could have been handled why not think of the one way it should have been handled. When the first FA approached you and asked you to turn off your device you should have turned it off. Period. End of story. I'll bet you'll never challenge the instructions of a flight crew again so perhaps in the end this was a good learning experience for you.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

The OP's story is another example of the need to travel defensively. If one assumes that ALL flight attendants are power drunk freaks, and acts accordingly (submissive, "yes sir," "no sir," "don't whip me too hard sir," etc.) then one's chances of an uneventful flight are increased. I'll admit this isn't a great way to deal with the majority of decent flight attendants, but it IS effective.

When Professor Gates, of Harvard, was arrested in his Cambridge, Mass. home some said the only crime he was guilty of was "contempt of cop." Thus a significant part of the OP's story could be written-off to "contempt of flight attendant."

Finally, if it were me, I would have turned-off my cell phone on hearing the announcement. I would not wait until I had to be, personally, asked. If one's schedule is so tight that they have to be sending e-mails at the risk of getting kicked-off a flight then they need to brush-up on time management skills or re-assess the amount of work they are being asked to complete.

[Gromit801]

Gee Phx, I though we both worked for Alaska? lol

[airhead]

Try this link for the show. A very good documentary indeed.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?vid...3494763&play=1

[jimworcs]

Thanks for the link Airhead.. it was excellent! Didn't address my biggest bugbear... communications with the passenger, but other than that... I thought it was great.

[NeilArmstrong]

I empathise.