[negs]

As it turns out, no real problem ever came up, but I'm wondering about this situation in the future:

Last week, I'm traveling from Washington National to O'hare. I have two pieces with me: a small carry-on suitcase, and a very modest computer bag.

Because I want to be confortable, and I know what it's going to be like when I board the plane, I check the small carry-on suitcase, even though it would have easily fit into an overhead bin. And, I paid $20.00 for the priviledge of doing so.

When I fly economy, it's my choice to fly in the rear of the plane, so I was in an early group to board. I placed my very-modest-sized computer bag in an overhead bin.

The flight was 100% full...not a single open seat. Listening to the FA announcements while boarding continued, I heard that if you have two carry-ons only one can be in a bin, and the other must go under your seat.

So far, in the above description, everything is normal. Now the part I question:

The flight attnedant announced that if you only had one carry-on, and it was small, like "a purse, briefcase or computer bag, you must put it under the seat in front of you to save the overhead bin space for passengers who have wheeled carry-ons."

REALLY?? I go to the trouble of checking a bag that I could legally bring on board, and pay to do it, and now I'm denied the ability to put the one (smaller) piece that I have with me in an overhead bin??!!

Is this within company tarriffs?

As I said in the beginning, it really never became an issue; I was never asked to remove my small piece from the bin and place it under the seat.

But I'm wondering.....could the airline demand that I do that?

I'm wondering because:

On the one hand, I have as much a right to use the overhead bins as the next guy, and hey, I'm even using a smaller part of the bin than most;

on-the-other-hand, is there something such as "you must obey the flight crew" even if said crew is dilusional and making whacky demands?

What do you think? I want to know, 'cause I'm *sure* that this situation will come up again!

Thanks!

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by negs

REALLY?? I go to the trouble of checking a bag that I could legally bring on board, and pay to do it, and now I'm denied the ability to put the one (smaller) piece that I have with me in an overhead bin??!!

You were being nice and checked it but bottom-line is, it was your decision. You were within carryon limits and could have carried your other bag on the plane.

Originally Posted by negs

on-the-other-hand, is there something such as "you must obey the flight crew" even if said crew is dilusional and making whacky demands

I don't think it's a whacky demand to put a smaller item under your seat so a larger item can be accomodated in the overhead. Could just be me though.

My point is, choose your battles. This is not one I'd choose. It is such a minor issue. Just put the laptop under the seat. Chances are good you'll be using it inflight and this way you won't have to get up to re-arrange the bin above you to get it out then put it back.

[justme]

negs, I wish more people would follow your lead and check their bags to minimize the amount of carry-on luggage. Boarding would be a much faster, and much less agonizing experience if everyone only had a laptop bag. (Or something similarly as small.) Oh, we can only hope. And as far as picking your battles and The Judge thinking this is one to avoid, I would disagree and stand my ground if someone "demanded" I put my laptop bag under my seat. I'm with you negs, you have just as much a right to the overhead as everyone else, and sounds like you are prepared to make some sacrifices (paying to check a "overhead sized" bag, sitting in the back of the airplane) to ensure you have the opportunity to use it. Safe travels negs!

[jimworcs]

Just me..

That is not great advice. "Standing your ground" with FA Nazi's could get you frog marched off the plane. It is a requirement that passengers carry out any lawful request of the Flight Attendants. This was intended to stop disruptive passengers from interfering with the safe operation of the airplane. It has now been re-interpreted by power crazed airline personnel to mean that children waving at airplanes and saying "bye bye plane" are disembarked, as are over weight women who are not dressed in accordance with the FA's taste, etc.

Troy.. whilst it may not be a big issue, the amount of personal space on these planes is tiny. If you are even moderately tall, you may make the decision to pay the rip off charges in order to ensure that you some leg room under the seat in front on you. You have paid for that small comfort, and it should be respected.

[The_Judge]

You bring up an interesting point about space. Will the airlines now start charging for use of the overhead space? The ticket entitles you to a seat on the plane and with some airlines, a bag checked free. That ticket now entitles you to overhead space. They might start charging for carryons that aren't laptops, purses or briefcases.

Anyway, I didn't think this was a big deal, some people may it seems. I would actually prefer my laptop not in the overhead as it could be crushed by someone else's large roller bag. jmho.

[cortney]

the flight attendants ask you to do this on full flights so that people with larger carry on suitcases have room to put their larger item. of course you have a right to the overhead bin space but it wouldn't be worth arguing about to a crew member if they asked you to place it under the seat. as what was stated earlier, pick your battles this isn't one to get hot and bothered over. most the airlines do this on full flights.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Looking upon use of the overhead bin as a favor, to be doled-out at the whim of the cabin crew, is probably the only “safe” way to travel. One of the few things the crew CAN’T do is to blatantly discriminate, such as saying “no Arab-looking passengers may use the overhead.”* Talk to US Airways about the latter and the court settlement they were forced into. While the same unknowns, technically, apply to first class if you fly with an airline that bans coach passengers from using the first class bins you may be in luck. Otherwise, look-up the maximum allowed dimensions in the Contract of Carriage, or elsewhere on the airline’s website; if you will be travelling on a (connecting) commuter aircraft use the dimensions applicable to that aircraft, not a larger “mainline” aircraft; note the restrictions as to number of pieces for crowded flights; put tape measure to carry-on; resign yourself to the idea of flying with your kneecaps on your chin; and pray you don’t encounter a gate agent, or flight attendant, who decided to make-up their own set of rules.

* For the benefit of that mob of 66% (suppressed control freaks, drunks, and lesser offenders): Yes, I know, the case against US Airways in Minneapolis did NOT involve usage of the overhead bin, but rather whether or not passengers could dictate what ethnic group is, or is not, allowed to board—hence garden variety discrimination.

[airhead]

On some small air crafts, the weight and balance is pretty weird and sometimes some carryons are removed from the cabin and placed in the cargo bin to satisfy weight requirements or vice versa.

If you want to stir some problems for the crew and the airline then refuse to place your carry on under seat and see what happens next. If you do decide to do this please let us know what happened as I am sure the results and responses will be entertaining for us all.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

The “overhead” is a favor, not a right

Is that your way of describing that overhead bin space is on a first-come, first-served basis?

[jimworcs]

The only specific point I would make is this: this particular customer had paid extra to avoid having anything in the space under the seat. If he is then asked to put something there anyway, to make way for others who have huge carry-ons to avoid paying baggage fees, there is a basic unfairness and it will have the consequence of encouraging everyone to take on the maximum size luggage as hand luggage. If that happens, no one will be able to use the underseat storage.

[airhead]

You are right and I agree with you. The problem is the comprehension of what exactly is the consumer buying. A safe trip from point A to B? Or a safe and comfortable trip from point A to B? In many circumstances a passenger buys a certain seat to ensure a certain degree of comfort and rightfully feels violated when something does not go as planned. Many buy a first class ticket for such privilege but still no guarantee exists unless a refundable fare is purchased but going through the trouble may not be worth it as that creates problems for everyone if someone decides they want off and a refund or a rebook as that is not always possible. One is still subject to bumps or sitting next to an annoying passenger who just does not shut up.

I am sure the number of passengers that don't complain greatly out number the ones who do but how many want to complain but feel their voice makes no difference? What is it about air travel that so many still buy tickets even though so many things don't go as desired? Take this forum for example, so many post regularly including myself all dedicated to airline complaints. Why is that? Is to improve the industry? To vent? Or inform?

One final question, how has the market allowed for such complexity of an industry that has the basic job to provide safe air transportation from point A to B?

[jimworcs]

Airhead..

As I have said before, the market is not functioning properly and is distorted. The airlines have colluded to develop large fortress hubs which are effectively local monopolies. When monopolies develop, markets don't work. This is why they are regulated all over the world. However, in the US, the dependence of legislators on huge funds to get elected has resulted in a system in which large industries can buy a "free pass". A similar problem has arisen in the health care system. Only consumer pressure will change this.

The problem is the comprehension of what exactly is the consumer buying. A safe trip from point A to B? Or a safe and comfortable trip from point A to B?

If the airlines go out of their way to slice up the fare into many different components, then they create the perception that the customer has "purchased" that service. For example, if I pay for my luggage separately, then you create the expectation that it will be done competently and in a timely manner. This is a consequence of the strategy adopted by airlines to charge separately for each service.

I am sure the number of passengers that don't complain greatly out number the ones who do but how many want to complain but feel their voice makes no difference? What is it about air travel that so many still buy tickets even though so many things don't go as desired?

They have no choice.. and the consumers and airlines know this. The only solution is political. This industry has to be re-regulated.

Take this forum for example, so many post regularly including myself all dedicated to airline complaints. Why is that? Is to improve the industry? To vent? Or inform?

From my perspective it is to vent.. and perhaps spur people on to take political action. There is no value in "informing" the airlines.. they know perfectly well what they are doing. They pay millions to protect their rights to hold passengers hostage on planes for up to 11 hours for example. It is naive to think they don't get it.

One final question, how has the market allowed for such complexity of an industry that has the basic job to provide safe air transportation from point A to B?

Because the "market" is not operating.. these are complex monopolies, sustained by bribing legislators.

[mars6423]

as it turns out it comes around full circle to bite you in the butt, you do the considerate thing and it even cost you to do this, and your expectations are not high, and your are being reasonable with a small bag, so it shouldn't be a deal

i understand the predicament that it puts the FA's in but there is no need to tell people that the small bags must go under, you paid for your ticket just like the passenger next to you, you are permited x amount of space to use

i understand that people dont want to pay the fees so they use these big "small" bags that may or may not be regulation size as they dont seem to check half the time, which fill up the space, and they are too big to get under the seat, and that the flight attendants are trying to accomodate but that doesn't mean making you or someone else with a small bag put it under your seat just for others comfortability

but yeah you dont want to tick off FA's as they have very long days and a tough working condition with many people that they have to deal with, and it stresses them out, there are ones that are just outright grumpy, but many FA's are actually pretty polite and helpful but even they can get a frazzled, but once you have 1 experience with a bad FA than your experiences are always going to seem worse, and if you look out for negatives in them than you overanalyse everything......anyway back to the situation, i would kindly suggest to the FA that you paid for your bag to be checked and so that you could have a little more room and comfort and that it was a small comp bag that is up there that shouldnt make too much of a difference and if it is ok to keep it up there (if the FA asks about it.........also whenever i fly coach/economy and i have my laptop with me i dont really like putting it up there personally, i have had a laptop break due to someones bag smashing into it as they kept throwing their bag directly on my laptop-obviously overweight bag as the man was struggling just to pick it up of the ground and this guy was telling me how he works out everyday for 3 hours (weight training))

so yeah you should be allowed to use the space since it is within the dimensions and you have as much a right as everyone else, you paid to have your other bag checked in (other passangers and teh FA's wouldnt have known that- but what difference does it make? none you only wanted to put a comp bag up there which if need be can be positiond ontop of another bag, between other bags or however way it can fit, but it will fit and you are entitled to that space

jimworks, how would others know if he checked in a bag or not? also its not a monopolistic situation, again each airline has a hub, even the small ones, and airlines are biggers than others and have the means of routes as they have that capability, other airlines are by all means free to use the same routes if the so choose, they can charge what they want because there is competition (dirct flights with other airlines or 1 stop) and it is perfectly legal for an airline to have a "home base" where they have many flights into and out of, just like other businesses they have their headquarters somewhere (in many cases over here they are in Delaware for the taxes) so do they have large amount of market shares in certain regions? yes but thats because the size of the company and the planes need to be somewhere and the nature of the business, its not a monopoly but resembles aspects of it but there is still substantial amount of competition that allows passengers to choose if the want to fly airline a or airline b, or they could choose other means of transport...... i question you sometimes because you bring up good and intelectual points and thats a healthy thing