[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Sounds like you just like to complain because you're an a-hole.

And, if you're at the airport, or on on a plane, and he says this to you---you better say:

"Why thank you sir!"

Otherwise, he'll call the cops, lie, and say you threatened him!

AAhole: This is why some of your colleagues, at AA, brag about being “Sky Nazis.”

Hopefully, the Obama Transportation Dept. will shut-down low-life organizations like your's.

Again: A customer who is physically assaultive, drunk, refuses to remain seated, or smokes in-flight, deserves whatever they get. Likewise, an airline employee who files false police reports, or calls the cops just because he/she doesn't feel like dealing with a customer, deserves whatever THEY get!

Constitutional protections are NOT suspended on airport property, or on-board an aircraft. Hence, police state rules do NOT apply on airport property, or on-board an aircraft. Until you, and your scum co-workers, get that into your pathetic brains, YOU will pose a far greater danger to this nation than any terrorist.

And, no: I have never been arrested, or even threatened with arrest. Knowing the kind of low-lifes I'm dealing with, I say, and ask for, as little as possible when I'm on airport property or on-board an aircraft. If something goes wrong, I remain quiet; make careful notes, and wait until I'm off airport property.

[Leatherboy2006]

The irresponsible statemants of "will shut-down low-life orgranizations like yours" do you realize how many honest incomes are effected by that statement, especially with unemployment rates the way there are right now. Not only the "shut down" honest employees would be out on the street needing unemployment benefits, food stamps and other benefits that our tax dollar pays for, but so would support companies that would have to layoff or go out of business. Change would be better then shut down or were going to end up with more soup kitchen then during the depression era (which thanks to W we are probably close to....Herbert Hoover can now rest in peace knowing someone did more damage to our country then he did ).
A small trickle effect from a totally unrelated industry is we have a special cargo rate with AA and UA sales for transporting human remains when burial is out of town or state. If either went out of business we would have to go to another shipper and if we can not get a lower rate would have to pass that on to the deceases family.

[ldl007]

As honest as any other human being could be; but I am not sure that these jobs (numbers) are needed. One does get tired of rude TSA, gate agents, and flight attendants. Same is true of unruly, impatient, cell phone addicted, drunk passengers.

Certified Emergency Passenger Assistants in flights might be an idea.

Quck question: How much weight do junk in the seat pocket-airline magazine, Sky mall etc add? How much money these cost the airlines?

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Leatherboy:
If American Air went belly-up the physics of the marketplace would not allow a vacuum. Don't know how old you are, but Eastern Air jumped into the South American market when Braniff (the first incarnation) went bust. Likewise, United filled the same space when Eastern collapsed. In another example, almost all of the former Pan Am routes are now operated by United or Delta.

As to cargo: You are, doubtless, aware that cargo, compared to your average coach customer, brings in, comparitively, more revenue. Passenger carrying airlines will not calmly stand by and allow UPS and Fedex to lock-up ALL the cargo action.

Meaningful government intervention will, almost certainly, force the demise of US Airways, Spirit, and possibly even American and United.

* To weed-out the misfits, cabin and gate crews should be licensed in the same sense that cockpit crews are. A badge, with the given license number, and prominently shown, would be worn, with penalties for those who fail to wear the badge, or try to hide the number.
* Minimum seat pitch of 35" for flights of 90 minutes and longer.
* Minimum seat width: 18" (most airlines, to my understanding, are already within this range)
* Children, under the age of 16, who are travelling with an adult, must be seated NEXT to said adult. No more spreading families all over the aircraft. This is a dangerous practice if an evacuation were to take place.
* Connecting times must take into account situations where the two given gates are 1+ miles apart.
* Tarmac delays: Passengers to be offered the option to safely disembark after two hours.
* Foreign control of US-based carriers PERMITTED following a review, and approval, by Transportation and Homeland Security (FBI.)

I could go on, even more. But you get the idea. As you can see, I'm not talking about chateaubriand, or in-flight manicures. With the exception of the foreign ownership, and id badges, we're, really, talking about going "back to the future"--circa 1965!

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by ldl007

Quck question: How much weight do junk in the seat pocket-airline magazine, Sky mall etc add? How much money these cost the airlines?

Junk? The airline magazine and SkyMall both generate revenue for the airline which surpasses the cost of carrying them. Why get rid of something that's profitable?

[airhead]

A box of fifty magazines is about 20lbs. Not much.

[azstar]

Skymall acutally pays airlines a fee for carrying their magazines to compensate for the additional weight.

[ChrisH]

You can't regulate all of that stuff. Requiring certain seat pitch, etc. That would never become a reality. Also, the airlines do not create connections. They happen by default. The airlines create flight schedules based on flights leaving from, and returning to a hub city. They do not create a connection specifically for you, flying from Orlando, FL, and wanting to go to Little Rock, AR. They create a flight leaving from a hub, to Orlando, then returning to hub. It is you, who had to get on that flight returning to the hub, and then catch a flight going out, from the hub, to Little Rock. Whatever time that flight happens to leave, is whatever time it happen to leave. The airlines cannot work every flight around all flights coming from all cities, just so everybody had a chance to get to Little Rock, and have a specific connection. If what I am saying makes any sense to you at all. It is hard to explain. basically, connections happen by default, based on flights flying from a hub, to a city, and back to a hub. Based on the market, some cities get more flights than others, and thus more options. This is why you may have a very short layover, or very long layover. In all, when you book airfare, you can pick and choose and get better connections. Leave on an earlier flight that gives you more time at the hub, for example.

Allowing foreign ownership of the airlines will cause what has happened in many other industries. It will allow foreign labor to come do American jobs, for less, cutting people's pay, and doing away with people's jobs. That is just what we need more of, in this country. We need foreign people owning, and running our companies, and paying their significantly less wages. That really makes a lot of sense. Just so you know, it is airline labor, not airline management, who has fought to prevent foreign ownership of the airlines, to prevent just that. To prevent what has already eroded income, and jobs in this country.

As per making children under 16 sit with parents. You need to understand. It depends on when you book your ticket. The airlines do what they can to get families, and all people under the same reservation, seated together. BUT, if you buy a ticket, when the majority of seats are already sold, that leaves limited seats open, and results on people being spread out. I'm also very surprised at the people who book tickets, for their family, but book them all under seperate reservations, and complain that the airlines didn't seat them together. And how were we supposed to know yall are family? They are all seperate reservations. I guess we should start sitting any and all people with the same last name by each other, because they may be family. LOL!! Also, unless you request reserved seating, when you book your flights (which everybody should do), the seats are assigned randomly at checkin. If you are going to be traveling as a family, book ahead of time, and get reserved seating. Booking on a last minute flight, with limited seating, results in being split apart. And no, we cannot just go in and start moving people around. That would create a major mess at boarding, when your boarding pass is being scanned, and it doesn't go through, because your seat has been changed, without you knowing, and now your boarding pass doesn't match. You really need to work for an airlines to understand why some things are the way they are. It never made sense to me, until I started working for an airline, but now it all does.

I agree something needs to be done about tarmac delays, and allowing people off.

As per making gate agents, etc., go through training like the crews. So I should go through, as the pilots, years of training to learn how to board a flight, so I can make my current $8-9/hr, what will be less than that when foreign countries are running the show. I don't think so. Believe it, or not, gate, ticket, and ramp agents already have to go through training. Not some extensive training, like flight crew, but if it gets to the point that you have to start having some license to be a gate agent, the airlines better start paying up. Because as it is, if they pay fast food wages, that is the service you will get. AND, are YOU, the passenger ready to pay the bill for all of these things? You do realize if the airlines were forced to do all of these things, it means fares are going to sky rocket, to cover the costs.

In the end, the airlines are private companies (I realize they are publicly traded, but you get the point). They can ultimately do what they want. They can charge what they want, for what service they want, or don't want. It isn't anybodies right to fly, it is a privilage. The airlines are like any other company. They set their prices, and their service, and it is a customer's choice to fly, based on that.

Don't expect anything to change. Air travel is no longer what it used to be. It is the greyhound of the sky. It is a means to get from point A to point B, not some 5 star hotel and restaurant in the sky. And, if passengers want air travel to go back to the days of luxury, maybe passengers should stop flying in tank tops, flip flops, smelling like cigarettes, and alohol. Today's typical traveler is an embarrasment in and of itself, compared to the days of old.

I am sure some people will have some nasty things to say to me, about my remarks. I don't care. I have my opinions. I just think people make a much bigger deal about all of this than they need to. The majority of the time, flights go out on time, and without a problem. When things don't go off as well, well, such is life. Sometimes things happen we don't like. Get over it. I wonder how some people stand to go through life, constantly worrying, and stressing over every little thing. I've been on delayed and cancelled flights. I've sat on an airplane for 3 hours, on the tarmac. Oh well. I didn't find it THAT BIG of a deal. But that is just me.

[jimworcs]

You can't regulate all of that stuff. Requiring certain seat pitch, etc. That would never become a reality

Wrong: it is already regulated, for example the seat pitch at the exit rows and the speed of evacuating the plane in an emergency both limit the numbers of passengers an airline can squeeze into the tube. The debate is not whether is can be regulated, but what is reasonable.

the airlines do not create connections. They happen by default.

Wrong: The whole strategy of the legacy carriers in the US has been to create "fortress hubs" which depend on connecting traffic to make them viable. Without the connections the flights would not be viable, and the airlines specifically create schedules to facilitate these transfers. For someone who works in the airline industry, you show a surprising level of ignorance about how the hub system works.

Allowing foreign ownership of the airlines will cause what has happened in many other industries. It will allow foreign labor to come do American jobs

Wrong: Foreign ownership of an American company does not confer on that company any more rights to bring in foreign labour than an American company. The immigration laws apply to all companies, regardless of their ownership.

Just so you know, it is airline labor, not airline management, who has fought to prevent foreign ownership of the airlines

Wrong: Delta and Continental have both filed objections to the proposed tie up between BA and AA for example. United also objected to the liberalisation of the airways between Europe and the US.

And no, we cannot just go in and start moving people around. That would create a major mess at boarding

Wrong: Airlines regularly do this. For example, moving people away from the exit seats where the Nazi Attendant (sorry Flight Attendant) decides they do not meet the criteria, sometimes safety reasons (sometimes for utterly incomprehensible reasons). The point ButchCassidy was making was that this is a safety issue. Children under 16 need adult help in an emergency and this should be by a parent or responsible adult. For example, there are fairly frequent incidences of rapid decompression. In this situation, the FA's are unable to assist as they must also get O2, and the parent is expected to put on their own mask first and then attend to their child. What if the child is not with the parent? Do we just hope the stranger will be motivated to do the right thing? In an evacuation, a parent is likely to block egress looking for their child... this could be highly dangerous. The airlines should be regulated, and believe me, if the FAA said so, they would miraculously find a way to resolve the problem.

You do realize if the airlines were forced to do all of these things, it means fares are going to sky rocket, to cover the costs

Wrong: There are many airlines around the world, and airports, with significantly higher standards of customer service than the US and they are not all low wage economies. Many European countries and some Asian countries have signficantly higher standards of service. The minimum wage in many European countries is higher than in the US. Besides, in case you are in doubt. I am a customer who is willing to pay more. Fares should increase, the race to the bottom is dangerous and has gone to far.

You really need to work for an airlines to understand why some things are the way they are. It never made sense to me, until I started working for an airline, but now it all does.

It is sad that you have become so jaded to normal standards of service, that the US airlines pathetic levels of service now "make sense to you". Perhaps it is time to change industries and smell the coffee.

They can charge what they want, for what service they want, or don't want.

Yeah, the financial services industry was like that too right? The lack of regulation in that industry brought about a world wide recession and is a financial disaster that will take at least a decade to recover from. Allowing the airlines to go unregulated is also disastrous. Lets learn the lesson and do something before something terrible happens and safety is compromised.

I've sat on an airplane for 3 hours, on the tarmac. Oh well. I didn't find it THAT BIG of a deal. But that is just me.

Such low expectations.. are you sure you are in the right job?

I don't care

Oh yeah, you probably are!

[ldl007]

I am surprised by ChrisH's response. He expects paying customers change their behavior because the gate agent is poorly paid and doesn't care about anymore training. For a gate agent, he seems to know a lot about Airline industry, the psychology of passengers, economy, immigration and others.
Is he really fearful that his job will go to a foreigner if the Airline comes under a foreign control? Does that fear translate into ill-treating foreign looking customers. Does inadequate/poor training clash with excessive powers at the gate?
Airline is a service industry; unfortunately due to 9/11, security is often used as a pretext to mask inefficiency, personal tiredness, anger, and prejudice. Nowadays, in an argument with customers, the airline employess is very quick to threaten calling the security. The customer has no choice-it is used as a weapon to subdue the passenger regardless of how right he or she might be.

[ChrisH]

I know this will be a complete reversal of what I said before. I seem to do that alot. You guys are right. I guess I like playing devil's advocate, sometimes.

Honestly, I work part-time for an airline, while I finish school. This isn't a career for me, by any means. I am well aware that changes need to be made in the airline industry. I just don't personally think it is going to happen. I hope I am wrong.

One of the biggest problems, and I can say this, as airline labor, is the lack of quality people that the airlines hire, and the lack of training. Yes, we go through training, but many of the employees that are hired, can't do something as simple as look up what time a flight is due to land, even after working for the airline for 6 months. To give an example of how easy to find that out is, the entry is simply a "2", followed by the flight number, and then hit enter. It will pull up the information. I get frustrated sometimes, and take things out on this site, against the wrong people, "the customers", because I get tired of dealing with the stupidity that seems to exist in today's youth (people my age), and in general, the pure lack of care, or concern for the labor groups, and the customers, that the airlines seem to be famous for. I guess I some ways, I think, deep down inside, if they can't treat labor well, why should they make all of these changes, to better treat customers.

Honestly ... I can tell you what will happen, if the airlines were forced to implement all of yall's ideas. Labor would take the hit, to help with the finances/costs. And then, the airlines would find new ways to screw the customer.

It is unforunate, but it really is a horrible industry. And, I would highly recommedn NEVER working for an airline. Honestly, I recommend driving, if you can. I nice road trip is fun, sometimes. I understand that in some cases, you must fly. Honestly, I think if people would try to stop flying as much as possible, the airlines may begin to change. BUT, then again, currently our flights, out of the airport I work at, are going out not even half full, sometimes with only 8-10 people, and yet, nothing has changed. Instead, the airlines up fees for everything, to try to make up the difference.

[Leatherboy2006]

Wow, as we get more cameras in every place we go, it sounds more and more like "big brother" watching. Are we now a communist society were every movement we do and make watched.
As for the justice department taking over local police, again big government taking over, thus making the federal government more of a police state. For those that still don't want to wake up and realize, the Confederate States were fighting such big government control, while slavery was the issue it was still the fight to keep a Federal government out of states rights (no were in the constitution is a state forbidden for leaving the USA and yet Lincoln invaded the south with his troops). Also Karl Marx was a big Lincoln fan and used a lot of his beliefs in forming his ideas of commist.

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

And, no: I have never been arrested, or even threatened with arrest.

You know what? I think you're a liar. Why else would you bring this up every chance you get?

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

You know what? I think you're a liar. Why else would you bring this up every chance you get?

A*****e, it’s called CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! The sooner this country is rid of facist pigs like you, the better. As I said to your friend, The Judge:

…use your employee travel privilege to get a one-way ticket to Myamar (Burma) or to Zimbabwe. You…, through your statements and actions, (have) made it very clear that the governments in those countries are much more to your liking.

Indeed, The Judge says he already left the country. Why don’t you join him??

Jetliner, there are tons of dirty films you can watch to get your kicks. Bullying customers, who’s only offense was buying a ticket from your airline, is not the way to go.

I strongly encourage any airline customer who is subjected to bullying, from someone like yourself, to take steps (a civil action) making this kind of behavior very expensive.

42 USC § 1983 (United States Code):Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity…

Hopefully, Jetliner, the Court will believe you when you lie under oath and say that 85 year old lady was threatening you with an AK-47! And if you think this statute doesn't apply, there are a lot of lawyers who will open your eyes.

As far as you, or anyone you work with, being an Iraq war veteran: Anyone who thinks like you do has negated any honor connected with their service—with, or without, amputations.

[Jetliner]

First of all, reality check. Why don't you try reading the forum rules. I do believe you are in violation of a few. Secondly, you mihgt try reading- I no longer work for an airline. I got tired of people such as yourself.

And let's take a look at that Constitutional rights thing. If you go into Wal-Mart, or McDonalds, or even your local groacery store and start yelling and cussing at the staff, what do you think they will do? First, tell you that it's time for you to go, then call the police. Obviously your post was written in a rather angy fit. What would you have been like in person? It kind of goes with that whole "Crowded theater" thing. You can express your opinion, however you may not cross the line.

While it's not right for any airport agent to act rude, you still need to remember that you are dealing with a private business, no different than those aforementioned.

Also, where did I ever say anything about being in Iraq?

[Jetliner]

Hey Butch, where's your response to this one?