[camarors]

I flew from Alaska to Alabama in June 2008 with my two year old. We had to take three flights. WHen I booked online, there weren't two seats together on one of the flights. I ended up with a seat assignment online for myself, but none for my son. When I got to the Anchorage airport, I asked for them to assign us seats together. She said she couldn't do it because I had a seat assignment for one of us and that I would have to get it taken care of in the second airport just before that particular flight. I said that I had less than an hour to change planes, change my son's diaper, and find food for him in the airport as we started flying at 1am. She still wouldn't fix it. So, I arrive in the second airport, run to the other gate and wait in line for for gate staff to arrive. Then I tell them the problem and ask for seats together. She says they are full and will have to wait until just before boarding to see what she can do but can't guarantee anything. They start the boarding process and then she finally calls me back up to the counter and gives me two different rows that are close to each other. I said that wouldn't work, that my son was two and couldn't sit by himself. She replied that she couldn't do anything about it. I asked what I was supposed to do. Her exact words were, "Get on the plane and beg."

I boarded the plane and told the flight attendants at the door the problem. They said, no problem, just sit together at one of our assigned seats and ask whoever came for the second seat to move. If there was a problem, let them know. I did that and the person was willing to move b/c she got an aisle instead of middle seat out of the deal.

I will NEVER fly Northwest (and now Delta) ever again. Plane reservation systems should automatically fix any seat issue when you book online with a child traveling. The system should detect the child passenger and ensure that the child is seated with the parent. Its that simple.

[Gromit801]

I would generally agree with you. But that's not fair to other passengers who might have reserved their specific seats before you did. Everyone has a reason for wanting to sit in certain seats. Of course some don't care, and those are the ones you have to appeal to.

I do sympathize, but I also understand that if other travelers were forced to change seats they already reserved, there would be some very LOUD conversations on the aircraft.

[richjoe]

Originally Posted by camarors

I flew from Alaska to Alabama in June 2008 with my two year old. We had to take three flights. WHen I booked online, there weren't two seats together on one of the flights. I ended up with a seat assignment online for myself, but none for my son. When I got to the Anchorage airport, I asked for them to assign us seats together. She said she couldn't do it because I had a seat assignment for one of us and that I would have to get it taken care of in the second airport just before that particular flight. I said that I had less than an hour to change planes, change my son's diaper, and find food for him in the airport as we started flying at 1am. She still wouldn't fix it. So, I arrive in the second airport, run to the other gate and wait in line for for gate staff to arrive. Then I tell them the problem and ask for seats together. She says they are full and will have to wait until just before boarding to see what she can do but can't guarantee anything. They start the boarding process and then she finally calls me back up to the counter and gives me two different rows that are close to each other. I said that wouldn't work, that my son was two and couldn't sit by himself. She replied that she couldn't do anything about it. I asked what I was supposed to do. Her exact words were, "Get on the plane and beg."

I boarded the plane and told the flight attendants at the door the problem. They said, no problem, just sit together at one of our assigned seats and ask whoever came for the second seat to move. If there was a problem, let them know. I did that and the person was willing to move b/c she got an aisle instead of middle seat out of the deal.

I will NEVER fly Northwest (and now Delta) ever again. Plane reservation systems should automatically fix any seat issue when you book online with a child traveling. The system should detect the child passenger and ensure that the child is seated with the parent. Its that simple.

The gate agent should have relayed to you the option that the flight attendant provided when boarding. Advance seat assignment are tricky as they can be cancelled 30 minutes before departure on originating flights and reservations cancelled 10 minutes before departure. Connecting flight are more difficult for the agent at the originating airport as they can not take away someone seat, just as you would not like to have your seats given away. The gate agent should have informed the flight attendant and then the gate agent should have relayed what the flight attendant told you.

[jimworcs]

But that's not fair to other passengers who might have reserved their specific seats before you did. Everyone has a reason for wanting to sit in certain seats. Of course some don't care, and those are the ones you have to appeal to.

I do sympathize, but I also understand that if other travelers were forced to change seats they already reserved, there would be some very LOUD conversations on the aircraft.

The point Gromit is this. Child safety trumps any reason other adult travelers may have for requesting a specific seat. All airlines have in their Terms and Conditions that seat assignments are NOT guaranteed. In this case, the child is 2. This potentially places another adult with child care responsibilities, for example in a sudden decompression, placing the oxygen mask on the child, helping in an evacuation, etc. Equally, it exposes the child to potential abuse. Any child under the age of 14 should automatically be placed next to the accompanying adult, unless they are under the "unaccompanied minor" programme. Any system which does not ensure this is potentially abusive.

[camarors]

Originally Posted by Gromit801

I would generally agree with you. But that's not fair to other passengers who might have reserved their specific seats before you did. Everyone has a reason for wanting to sit in certain seats. Of course some don't care, and those are the ones you have to appeal to.

I do sympathize, but I also understand that if other travelers were forced to change seats they already reserved, there would be some very LOUD conversations on the aircraft.

The issue here is that the airline should have a block of seats reserved to deal with issues like children sitting with their parents, online problems that have messed up seating, etc. Airlines have policies that large people have to buy two seats. This doesn't happen until they check in. So, the airline has to have two seats together to offer the passenger if they are going to make the passenger pay for two seats. All of these situations require empty seats to accommodate. When I called Alaska Airlines today to ask them if they would treat me this way as I need a flight in July through them that has only middle seats left and I'm again flying with my son, they said that wouldn't happen on their airline, that they reserve a block of seats to deal with the situation. The other thing that should happen is that reservation systems should automatically detect who is flying (ie. a child) and ensure that a reservation will work before letting it go through online. It should have automatically moved us to two seats together that it had reserved when I made the reservation.

[camarors]

JIMWORCS: Thank you!

[The_Judge]

Sounds easy, doesn't it?? When I have time, I'll address a few of the issues raised.

[jimworcs]

I look forward to it Judge, but even if it is not easy, it should be a regulation. Any child under the age of 14, MUST be seated next to the accompanying adult.

[The_Judge]

Okay.....hypothetically and for argument's sake......the DOT recently required all airlines to block 5% of seats on each flight. This will solve the children sitting alone problem, online seating problems etc.....as the OP suggested.

So......on our flight today from ORD to TPA, we have a 757 that has 200 seats. The airline already blocks a number of seats for disabled passengers and now with the additional 5% blocked, there are roughly 15-20 blocked.

This flight is just after school is out and mom and dad are bringing the 3 kids to Disneyland.....yeaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Mind you, this is not the only family traveling. Hazard a guess how many families travel this route.

The flight's booked to 210 and the agent is trying to get volunteers. People are coming up wanting their seat. Folks with no intention at all of volunteering are coming up and asking what's the offer, after the agent has already made multiple announcements. People are coming up wanting to sit next to each other because when people were choosing their seats for the last 3 months, they chose seats that were as far away from another person as possible. A 3 and 3 configured aircraft. Couples obviously want to sit together so they reserved 2 seats side by side. A single business guy sees a row of 3 open and then the single seat next to the couple. Which one do you think he's gonna choose? He chooses a single in an open row of 3. This continues until the alotted number of seats, roughly 110, can be assigned. After that it's closed for reserved seats until 24 hours before flight time.

Well, mom and dad missed that window and when they check, there are not 5 seats together. No problem, we'll get there early.

Well, traveling with 3 kids, it takes longer than they thought and they arrive about 90 mintues before flight time. By that time, the internet check-ins and airport check-ins have exhausted all the available seats except the blocked ones.

Here's the question??? When do those seats get used? By whom? As I said, there are multiple families traveling. Should the check-in agent release them and use them? What if the gate agent was planning on using them for "deals" he has at the gate with other families. Plus, what about all the other couples or families without young kids who've given their name to sit together. The agent at the gate could have a list of 5-10 groups of people or more.

To answer my own question, the seats get released at 15 minutes before flight time. So, the agent now has about 12 minutes (the door should be closed 3 minutes early per company regs) to give those that have no seats a seat, to reseat umpteen people to sit together, take verbal abuse (and believe me, it happens) from those that can't get seated together, generate paperwork for the flight attendants (this can only be done after the seats are resolved), get an accurate count of people including kids and infants along with the crew numbers. All this while also working the boarding door to get the people on the plane.

This is just one scenerio. I also wanted to say, that in over 20 years of working with my airline, I NEVER ONCE saw a child not be able to sit with a parent. It was either handled by the gate agent the way I mentioned above, the flight attendant on board or with other passengers when I walked down with the family to move people. This is a problem but it is overblown and easily handled. Not something that needs regulation. There's alot more wrong with airlines that this.

[jimworcs]

Wow, thanks for taking the time Troy.. that sounds a very plausible scenario. But this my point... I would like a regulation which states that an airline will always prioritise a child 14 and under to sit next to the accompanying adult. To achieve this the following in your scenario would have to give up their seats

Couples obviously want to sit together so they reserved 2 seats side by side. A single business guy sees a row of 3 open and then the single seat next to the couple. Which one do you think he's gonna choose? He chooses a single in an open row of 3. This continues until the alotted number of seats, roughly 110, can be assigned.

There are a number of complaints about this on this site, which must be a tiny number of the overall times this happens. It should be given the same attention as the rights of people with disabilities.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

that sounds a very plausible scenario.

I'm glad you think so. Because it was my life for a long time. Except the planes I worked on were twice that size so twice the number of people wanting seat changes.

As far as seating a minor next to a family member being a priority........it already is. It's just plain common sense that a child has to sit next to mom or dad. A regulation won't change this. Even software to somehow do as the OP wanted won't always work because when people make reservations, they won't say the passenger is a child. And if you don't believe that, I've had people bring their kids to the airport to travel unaccompanied and there were no remarks in the res cuz mom or dad never said anything.

Also, sometimes reservations are made separately and there is no way to link it with a different res.

It's a nice idea but I don't see an easy fix to this one. Gate agents will just continue to save the day in each event with no thanks.

[jimworcs]

Fine, then in Terms and Conditions insert a clause

"We may not be able to guarantee that children aged 14 and under can be given an advance seat reservation to be seated next to the accompanying adult. However, we guarantee that no child aged 14 or under will be seated apart from their accompanying adult with the parent's written consent".

How does that work for you?

[The_Judge]

You missed the part in my previous post where I said......."I also wanted to say, that in over 20 years of working with my airline, I NEVER ONCE saw a child not be able to sit with a parent."

How many times do you think a plane has pulled away from the gate when a 5 year old can't sit next to his mom or dad?? I would bet my next paycheck it's zero times. If I was a dad and the it worked out that the gate agent, the flight attendant and no passengers would work it out that I couldn't sit next to my son, I would not take the flight. I would walk off and demand and get 2 seats together on the next flight along with compensation for not being able to take the flight I booked.

[jimworcs]

You wouldn't get compensation, because some arsy employee would tell you that you voluntarily came off the plane and you would need to buy a whole new ticket. Especially if it was Delta.

If the child is never separated from the parent, the the airline should have no compunction about making it a guarantee. That way the passenger is reassured and would be due compo in the eventuality that they could not do it. If it was in the T&C's, it would strengthen the power of the FA's and Gate Agents to reassign existing passengers.

(btw, I set 14 as the guideline.. I doubt you can say a 13 yo has not been separated in your 20 years)

[The_Judge]

You can say I wouldn't get compensation, I say I would. I think I've learned a thing or two about how to get what I want from an agent.

I"ll rephrase my comment then........I've never seen a parent not be able to sit next to their child when they so requested in my career. Child by definition is 17 and under. I've seen families that have no issues with a 16 or 17 year old sitting alone and it's happened but I'm saying if they requested it, it was rectified.

[mars6423]

i think this should just be plain and simple clear cut no ways around..........kids must be accompanied by a person in care for them....if a mother and a 2yr old come and they have seats apart from one another and the flight is full then the airline MUST do something to accomodate them by moving another passenger who isnt with their family members, and if that person says no then offer compensation such as a voucher or free food and drink and a refund on bag fees

but obviously not in the emergancy exit row and maybe not even in the bulkhead if say the mother booked her seat there and then ask the passenger to move, it should be for equal seating instead of having someone move who booked the bulkhead for extra room (wow my grammer is horrible today)

[jimworcs]

mars.. we are in danger of agreeing here...

[The_Judge]

Time to be a bit blunt. Have either of you ever worked for an airline? Yes? No? I would say no. I have. I don't know if my posts are invisible or just the parts you wish to ignore. I've said it twice, 2 different ways. I have never, ever seen a child not sit next to a parent when it was brought to my attention. It is just obvious that they have to be accommodated.

I have done exactly as suggested many times. Gave drink couipons, meal ticket in the airport and even upgraded people so families can be together.

This thread seems to be turning into a bashfest that agents are out to purposely not seat families together. Try being on the other side of the counter and taking verbal abuse when you're doing all you can to get it done. This is not that big of an issue because the airline gets this problem solved everytime. Also, if you'll re-read the OP, the problem was solved by the flight attendant. Not sure why the issue.

[mars6423]

hey by making sure that the child and the guardian are together it will make everyone happy a win-win. The child wont be running down the aisle every few mins to go see who they are with and there wouldn't be a deal with the guardian coming over to keep checking on their child, which would be very annoying for all parties.

I dont care how the airline does it, it shouldn't even be thought about, they should see someone with a young child and make sure they are together no questions asked. Who cares if they "block" 20 or 30 seats it shouldnt matter a child is a child and they need to be safe at all costs. That way there is a full proof way that nothing will happen to the child that can be controled.

And if worst comes to worst then the airline should upgrade the passenger to business class so that the family can be together

Besides dont they say that assigned seats are not final but they try and keep what you selected? they have the right to change seats, so there should be little complaint if the seat that someone moves to is comparable.


Now if the family is large or is a group flight then this may be a little more difficult to handle with all the seat requests if there are already assigned seats. So the scenerio her would be this: AT BOOKING the family/group is told that there is a chance that the whole group will not be sitting together but they will make sure that every child will be with a adult member of the group and that they will arrange it so that the group can stay as close to each other as possible.

I know a few years ago flying Singapore Airlines from Singapore to Sydney my company arranged a family vacation package and booked it all as a group and since many members of the group were young (kids) SQ blocked off a whole area of the plane for us, we had I believe 3 rows all to ourselves from the left to the center and onto the right. That was probably because they actually take care of their customers and value their passengers.

Me and a few friends were going to book a ski trip to Colorado and went through group reservations with 3 different airlines (Continental, Delta and United) and the best they could do was having 2 people together and the whole group scattered

point being is keep children with their adult supervisors (parents, family, who ever is responsible for them)

[mars6423]

Judge, no i dont and never have and never will work for the airlines (thank god)

that being said.......yes i have seen children seperated from their parent on more than one occasion, all with US based airlines. I was even sat next to one and i asked the mother if she would like to switch seats with me so that she could be with her child.......unfortunatly the FA was walking past and as we were about to switch she basically yelled at us saying YOU MUST SIT IN YOUR ASSIGNED SEATS!!! so i sat back down and at cruising altitude we switched at which point the FA stormed down when she realized and demanded me to explain why i wasnt in my assigned seat and for me to go back.......i told her i didnt feel comfortable with the configuration and that everyone was happier with this seat assignment to which she said that she would get her supervisor when we landed.....she did and the supervisor gave me a vouchar and was utterly upset with the FA and thanked me for doing the FA's job

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

I don't know if my posts are invisible or just the parts you wish to ignore.......

I have done exactly as suggested many times. Gave drink couipons, meal ticket in the airport and even upgraded people so families can be together.

Originally Posted by mars6423

And if worst comes to worst then the airline should upgrade the passenger to business class so that the family can be together.

I rest my case. Nobody's listening.

[mars6423]

judge i read what you said but your one employee, i doubt you speak for all of them.......the vast majority of the time i highly doubt that someone would be upgraded unless there is an overbooking issue and all seats were filled up

[The_Judge]

Not necessary the vast majority of the time and only in extreme cases, like if there was not one seat to move to. But I've done it on more than one occasion.

The best situation I ever had was asking someone to move so a family could be together. This person saying no and me getting someone very near them to do it and I upgraded them on the spot so the other passenger could hear it. It's alot nicer in first class from HNL to the coast than in economy, wouldn't you say?? Pays to be nice sometimes.

[jimworcs]

Judge,
It is not that no-one is listening to your point, but I think you are choosing to ignore a fundamental element of what the point is. In all your years of experience you have never come across a situation where a child has been separated from the adult. This site is littered with examples where parents and their children have unnecessarily been subjected to anxiety and stress because the airline would not guarantee that they would be seated together. mars has now given a first hand experience of it actually happening.

Whether it happens to a tiny number of people or not is not the issue. The issue is the passenger should have the right to insist on it and the airline should be required to comply.

[The_Judge]

Agree on both counts. They have the right to insist and the airline should and did comply. I'm too lazy now but maybe you aren't. Find me one complaint on here that says the parent was made to sit the duration of the flight away from their minor child and I'll shut my yapper completely on this subject. I'd also like to find the airline agents involved and ask the WTF they were thinking.

We are all on the same side here as far as kids being next to their parents. I'm not sure if I'm coming across that way or not but all resources need to be used to make this happen even if it means telling Mr. Businessman to move his rear-end out of his seat. I had/have no problem with that at all.