[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

I would be nervous about the fact that they have not given you a ticket. BA will likely be on strike on that date, which will put enormous pressure on other airlines on the route. Not giving you a ticket suggests that you may not be confirmed and travelling "standby". I suggest that you ask when the Manager who gave you his word is next working and go in and talk to him face to face. You are getting the Delta treatment you can expect.. they are very arrogant and anti-customer, but you may find the odd one or two people who are not so hostile. Good luck

He has a ticket. The original one he was supposed to travel on. He also has a reservation on the flights they promised him. I'm sure they will honor that reservation as long as he pays the change fee. As was pointed out before he had the choice to travel on that original ticket without his girlfriend who didn't have the proper visa to transit the US. He chose not to fly without her. That's a voluntary change.

To expect that he'd be accommodated on a flight from EZE to the UK regardless of the cabin class is ridiculous. As one who has shelled out good money to travel in international business/first class I can tell you if I knew that any airline had put a slag paying a cheap economy fare in a premium cabin for such nonsense I'd raise bloody hell. He paid for an economy ticket and should expect nothing more. Sorry but you don't get to dine on caviar and champagne when you've paid a cheap fare. And the change fee is completely justified given the circumstances.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

PHXFlyer wrote...

if I knew that any airline had put a slag paying a cheap economy fare in a premium cabin for such nonsense I'd raise bloody hell

Delta provided the OP's girl friend with information (about entry/transit documents) they were NOT obligated to provide. The gf relied on this information, which turned-out to be wrong. As a result the gf has suffered/may suffer some damage (severe inconvenience, etc.) Buying an airline ticket should not be a game of chess. The customer, to receive the product he is seeking, should NOT have to outwit the airline. Unlike Walmart, a (US-based) airline is a public trust by virture of its certificate of operation and its right to use the public airways. Accordingly, given all the circumstances of this case, an upgrade, on a "space available" basis, does not seem unreasonable.

As to raising "bloody hell," you might want to stick to my strategy--a John Gotti impersation--wherein you cite your right to remain silent (depending on the question/comment from the flight attendant.) Picking-up on a post from Jim, the link below shows a tv interview with an American Air first class customer who dared to ask for orange juice with his breakfast.

http://cbs13.com/local/orange.juice....2.1369891.html

[chrisal]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

He has a ticket. The original one he was supposed to travel on. He also has a reservation on the flights they promised him. I'm sure they will honor that reservation as long as he pays the change fee. As was pointed out before he had the choice to travel on that original ticket without his girlfriend who didn't have the proper visa to transit the US. He chose not to fly without her. That's a voluntary change.

To expect that he'd be accommodated on a flight from EZE to the UK regardless of the cabin class is ridiculous. As one who has shelled out good money to travel in international business/first class I can tell you if I knew that any airline had put a slag paying a cheap economy fare in a premium cabin for such nonsense I'd raise bloody hell. He paid for an economy ticket and should expect nothing more. Sorry but you don't get to dine on caviar and champagne when you've paid a cheap fare. And the change fee is completely justified given the circumstances.

First things first, you say that I had the choice to travel on the original flight. Correct. But given the situation, what type of heartless selfish sick person would have actually gone ahead and jumped on the plane leaving his girlfriend, deeply upset and broken-hearted, behind at the airport? With some of the comments on this site I can definitely think of one or two heartless candidates. Yes I had the choice, but thankfully I didn't choose to fly, thus enabling me to be able to take care of my girlfriend. It is what normal people call compassion. Try looking it up in the dictionary for a definition as you clearly have no idea what it means. However, you are not alone as Delta evidently find it impossible to show any compassion either.

Now you go onto say that to expect to be accomodated on the flight regardless of class is ridiculous and that the change fee is totally justified given the circumstances. As ever PHX you choose to miss out the main points of my story just to put your own little digs in. We all know which side you are on but the way you continually choose to twist the knife at every corner is just spiteful mate! You remind me of a young schoolboy whose own life is so unhappy that he needs to make other people's lives unhappy just to make his sad and twisted life a little better. Anyway back to the quote, perhaps it would be ridiculous to expect to be accomodated on a flight regardless of class, if it had not been for the fact that the manager told me this. These are his words not mine! He realised the terrible situation Delta had put us in, and saw fit to offer his help and if necessary upgrading us if it meant we could get home in time. So ridiculous? I don't think so as he agreed to it!
And you also say that the change fee is totally justified as well. Again and as always you are missing the point. You are either missing the point on purpose just to show the airlines how much you love them, or maybe it is because you are too thick to take in all the information that I write. I'm not sure which and to be fair I don't really care. So anyway, change fee totally justified? Let's just think about this shall we, manager gives his word that we would not face any fees for changing our tickets....and when I go to change my ticket I am told that I will have to pay a change fee of 100 pounds. So you are saying that it is totally justified that I have to pay this change fee of 100 quid after the manager tells me that I won't have to pay it? Again please read this again if you don't understand it the first time. Maybe you will need to read it several times before it sinks in. To me it is basic stuff, the manager told me that I wouldn't have to pay a change fee, and now they are telling me that I will have to pay a change fee. Are you trying to say that to go back on a promise where the manager gave me his word and shuck my hand is totally justified?

Right now then let's get down to it, "As one who has shelled out good money to travel in international business/first class I can tell you if I knew that any airline had put a slag paying a cheap economy fare in a premium cabin for such nonsense I'd raise bloody hell." What an absolutely despicable snobbish upper-class idiotic thing to say. However, it helps me to picture the type of person you are. I thoroughly despise the likes of you. To know that you would kick up a fuss if you knew that a member of the working class was situated anywhere near your caviar and champers chums, makes my skin crawl. What difference would it make to you if some "slag" had been accomodated in first class to help a manager keep an earlier promise. The slag isn't going to stop you from eating your prawn and cucumber sarnies with the crust cut is he? And what exactly does this slag reference actually mean? One online dictionary says:

coal waste: the mixture of coal dust and mineral waste produced after coal has been mined

I remember when I was young I lived a few miles from a slag heap , which was a huge dump of mining waste that looked like a massive black hill. This is in Newcastle which in the past was a big coalmining area. However, it was terribly working class where the people worked awfully long hours earning very little money - horrible people eh PHX? What a bunch of slags. So I'm not sure what you are getting at with this slag remark but the common meaning for a slag over here in Britain is for someone who sleeps around and isn't too choosy who she will part her legs for.

I'm not sure what you are trying to get at calling me a slag, but whatever it is I feel very angry and offended by it.

[chrisal]

PHX, thanks to his incredibly large and spiteful big mouth, has managed to get himself banned until at least the weekend. I say good riddance, and it is a shame that he will be back again pouring scorn on the innocent and unfortunate who are being shat on by the airline industry. If this spiteful little man doesn't work for an airline industry, I want to know what is the point of attacking every innocent victim who comes on this site, trying to make out that we are stupid and liars and that we are getting all that we deserve. What kind of a sick and twisted individual takes so much joy out of the terrible happenings of others? Ban him that's what I say and give the victims some support. People come on this support for help and advise (of which I have received plenty of) but it doesn't help my own personal terrible situation to have this individual and one or two others twisting knives into my back at every turn along the way. BAN THEM FOR LIFE! They are scum!

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Chrisal wrote...

...champers chums...

I can't remember my grandparents (from Windy Nook, Gateshead) using that one. However, when I checked my Tyneside dictionary, I note the word "champion" (champers) is defined as "first class."

Also can't remember there being any flights, with first class, leaving NCL. However, if I ever visit again, and leave by first class, I'll be sure to get a dispensation from the local Labourite head and board wearing dark glasses and a trenchcoat!

Seriously, the working class continues to get short changed and term ("slag") you referenced is, clearly, insensitive. I still can't understand, however, why my working class neighbors continue to vote Republican!

[chrisal]

Butch, champers in this respect means champagne and chums means friends. However, we do also use champers which means champion which in turn means brilliant or fantastic or top class etc. But in this instance it was just referencing the first class as a bunch of champagne quaffers, because let's face it, the working class slags in economy class can't even afford one of those midget cans of coke....and heaven forbid if one of those working class rif raf types were to wander into executive class!
Nice to hear that you've got some Geordie blood in you and your grandparents are from Windy Nook which isn't at all far from where I'm from, although God knows when I'll be getting back home!!!

[jimworcs]

I hope you get home and find a solution Chris. One thing I would say is try to offer a solution that they can realistically deliver. It will cost Delta a lot to send you home on a carrier that is not in their Skyteam alliance. The inter-line agreements within alliances are more favourable than for non alliance airlines.

Phx enjoys the sport of blasting people on the internet. Although we rarely agree, I hope he is not banned permanently. The debate itself is sometimes useful in bringing out issues and it is the internet afterall, it is just speech. No-one is dying.

On his issue of the upgrade, his response, which was clearly designed to get you riled was ridiculous. You are not demanding an upgrade, you are simply asking to be accommodated to get you home. If they have empty seats, whereever they are on the plane, then you should be entitled to get you home. Delta have treated you very badly and they really should do more to assist you.

[chrisal]

Jim thanks again for the support and all your help. Personally I think this PHX is a complete idiot, and although some of his points may be valid and he may be knowledgeable, he is also a sly spiteful nasty piece of work who thinks it is funny to laugh at the misfortune of others. You may hope he is not banned but I think the comments that he is continually posting on my thread, serve no purpose then to make me angry and upset. He has been banned before apparently, and warned repeatedly. Why wait any longer, ban the little gimp. The way he has talked to me has done nothing to serve me, and has only made me feel worse. On a site such as this, which is supposed to be helping the consumer if they have a valid case, an idiot like him shouldn't be able to write such nonsense which only serves to inflame already volatile situations. I say lock him up and throw away the key!!!
Getting back to the upgrade I really do not think it is anything difficult for them to try to find me an earlier flight and putting me on it. Yes it may be in first class but I don't care, I just want to get home before Christmas Day. They wouldn't be losing any money and it is the least they can do after ruining everything else.

[chrisal]

I received this email a couple of days ago but didn't want to mention anything until i was sure that they would not help out further. It reads:

Dear Mr. Alexander,
> >
> > Thank you for your recent e-mail to our Chief Executive Officer,
> Richard
> > Anderson, our Vice President of Customer Care, Perry Cantarutti and
> our
> > General Manager of Customer Care, Beth Reed. I've been asked to
> respond
> > on their behalf. We sincerely apologize for the inaccurate
information
>
> > provided by our Reservations Department.
> >
> > As our customer, you are in the best position to point out areas
that
> > need attention. Our goal is to provide consistent and accurate
> > information to our passengers at all times. I am truly sorry that in

> > this instance you did not receive the information you expected and
> > should have received regarding transit VISA information for your
> > girlfriend. Feedback like yours will help us improve our
reservations
> > process and customer experience. Please know I will be sharing your
> > comments with our Reservations leadership team for internal follow
up.
> >
> > Also, I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your query about
> > recording telephone calls. While we do record a sampling of
> reservation
> > calls for training purposes, the tapes are not logged by customer
> name.
> > As such, we are unable to locate the specific call mentioned. Again,
I
>
> > apologize for the discrepancy you described.
> >
> > I am truly sorry your girlfriend was unable to travel as planned.
> > Although we are unable to honor your request to pay for a ticket on
> > another airline, I would appreciate the opportunity to further
assist
> > you. I am prepared to authorize a refund of the unused ticket.
Please
> > know that some fares, such as bulk fares, cannot be refunded. In
order
>
> > to review the ticket and make this exception, I will need the
> following
> > information.
> >
> > - Name of passenger
> > - Date of travel, flights, and ticket number
> >
> > Thank you for writing. I will be in touch with you as soon as I have

> > all the necessary information.
> >
> > Sincerely,

I have marked in bold the killer statement that proves without any doubt that Delta are saying that they have done something wrong. Finally, someone from Delta is not blaming me for their ****-up. And to offer a full refund is further proof that Delta feel that they have done something wrong. So why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it PHX, and you can take your side-kick Silent Bob with you. The comments that PHX have made throughout this debacle have been about as welcome as a fart in an astronaut suit, the bloke's an absolute disgrace. He should be banned from this site.
The reason I didn't post this 2 days ago is because I've been posting emails back and forth with Delta ever since, saying how much of a relief it is to have someone from Delta say that they are to blame and to have them apologise for it. But I have also told them about the unpresidented amount of stress we have faced and also that I will not now return til Christmas Day. I have asked them to to help me out with an earlier ticket. I thought since they have actually admitted the blame they would be able to help me find an earlier flight. However, upon receiving a reply from them just now I believe that their kindness has stopped with the refund.
For me this is unacceptable, as I explained that it was because of their lies (which they have now admitted to) that I am in this situation now, and I feel that because they are accepting the blame they should not only accomodate me with an earlier flight but they should also pay for the other financial inconveniences that I have incurred.
However, although I do feel that Delta have only gone a small way to compensate me for their disgusting treatment of me, I do also feel that I have come out of this victorious against one of the biggest bullies I have ever had to face.

A HUGE THANK YOU TO JIMWORCS FOR PROVIDING ME WITH THE EMAIL ADDRESSES OF THE DELTA EXECS! YOU ARE A STAR!

[jimworcs]

Chris, you should now check if there is a low cost small claims process in Argentina. This email does accept that you were misled by the Customer Service Agent. I believe you could have a good case for consequential damages. If you are ableto file a claim and feel that you could pursue that avenue, I would not take the refund.

[chrisal]

Jim I would love to take them to a small claims but I don't have much confidence in the legal system here. Have you ever been to Argentina?
Plus I'm not sure how much energy I have left to keep on fighting. I should have been back in England since the 5th and enjoying the sites of Dublin, Rome, Edinburgh, London, Stratford, not to mention the almighty Newcastle.
I would love to take Delta to court and believe that I could take them to the cleaners since they are now shouldering the blame but I need the money for the refund to pay for a new ticket for her. As things stand I'm still flying home with Delta which makes me sick just thinking about it! But what I'm trying to come up with is the cheapest possible option to get her to Manchester on Christmas Eve where she can stay in a hotel for the night and then be picked up by myself and my bro on Christmas morning before driving back to Newcastle (thanks so much Delta for making this the most inconvenient Christmas ever). Iberia would have been a good option but I notice that the carrier from Heathrow to Manchester is BA so that's that one out the window! I checked out Lufthansa and I think this is about my best option as some of the others are ridiculous. I'm still paying more as it is Christmas time and I can again thank Delta for putting even greater holes in my pockets. And I dread to think how much an airport hotel will cost me on Christmas Eve!
I would love to take them to court Jim, but I need the money now. Otherwise, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to wipe the floor with the lying scumbags.

[jimworcs]

Ok, well good luck. The BA strike is off, so if the Iberia/BA option is still on the cards, you might try that. Why fly BA from LHR to MAN? BA also have flights from LHR to NCL. Lufty is a good choice, and I think they have a Frankfurt/Newcastle flight. I remember seeing a Lufthansa when I flew to Newcastle on a regular basis. So do AF, which saves the nightmare journey to Manchester on Christmas morning.

We have the best chance for years of a white christmas this year. It is snowing now and the forecasters say this is the best prospect of a white christmas in 10 years, especially in Northern England and Scotland... so at least it should look like a postcard!

[chrisal]

Jim, I still stuck with Delta so I still will end up in Manchester on Xmas Day so the trip would have to be made even if my gf can get a flight to Newcastle. Plus she has never met my parents before so she wants me to be there when she finally does.
White Xmas eh? Typical that isn't it, especially since I have to get from Manchester to Newcastle!! This trip is proving to be one disaster after another and I still haven't left Buenos Aires yet!! I'm sure my Argie gf will apreciate a white Xmas though as it is always red hot here at Xmas time!

[chrisal]

But i agree with phx, the fault lies with the OP. You can't trust the airlines for info unless it pertains to their flight... and even then you have to be just a bit wary. Silent Bob quote.

Really Bob, the fault lies with me? Then can you explain why Delta sent me this email?

As our customer, you are in the best position to point out areas that
need attention. Our goal is to provide consistent and accurate
information to our passengers at all times. I am truly sorry that in
this instance you did not receive the information you expected and
should have received regarding transit VISA information for your
girlfriend.

And if the fault lies with me then why are Delta giving me a full refund?
Hmmmmm strange that isn't it

Because as someone traveling internationally it is incumbent on them to be aware of any and all rules and laws of entry to any country they visit or transit. Ignorance of a law does not excuse not being in compliance with said law. If she plans to continue to travel abroad she needs to be more diligent in learning these things. Perhaps this whole situation can be written off to a learning experience. Now it's time to move on and stop pointing your finger at the airline. Sure their mis-information was a contributing factor but your, and her, lack of follow-up to verify that information was just as much to blame. Quote from PHX

As our customer, you are in the best position to point out areas that
need attention. Our goal is to provide consistent and accurate
information to our passengers at all times. I am truly sorry that in
this instance you did not receive the information you expected and
should have received regarding transit VISA information for your
girlfriend. Quote from Delta

Still pointing the blame at me PHX? You are correct with one thing, in that if I hadn't believed what the airline had told me and looked for the travel info myself, I would have found out that a visa was required. But why should I doubt what the airline is telling me? I am the consumer. I should be able to believe them and if they tell me lies they should be to blame, not me. This was the whole point of my arguement but you just didn't want to see it from my perspective did you, just like Delta didn't want to either, initially. Delta now state that they are sorry that I didn't receieve the info that I expected and SHOULD have received. Yes I should have received it. And if I had received it this mess wouldn't have happened would it?

So it wasn't my fault that this happened. What grounds did I have for calling the airline I was flying with a liar who was purposefully trying to ruin my Christmas holiday. What reason would I have for thinking they wanted to misinform me for no reason? And why would I then see the need to look on the American Embassy website to see if a transit visa was required for the US when I had absolutely zero knowledge about this rule??

I understand that if I had looked up this info and double checked to see if they were lying to me, I would have found out that I did need the visa, but this isn't the point here, the point is that they have admitted to me that they were negligent in not giving me this information, that they should have given me this information.

This rather belittles your silly little childish comment to me re looking in the mirror and admitting that I am partially to blame doesn't it? Delta have stated that they should have given me this information (God knows I had to drag it out of the lying toerags at the 25th time of asking!) and because they didn't my girlfriend hasn't been able to fly, and this is why they are giving her a FULL refund.

What I can do now is look in the mirror and say to myself that Delta are the worst company I have ever dealt with in all my life and have ruined my Christmas holidays, have ruined my girlfriend's first holiday outside of her country, have left me severely out of pocket, but at least now they are admitting that they are fully to blame, not me, them.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Chrisal wrote...

I'm trying to come up with is the cheapest possible option to get her to Manchester on Christmas Eve

If I read your posts correctly Delta is now offering to refund your gf's ticket. At this point I would think the price of a new ticket would border on a "walk-up" fare (high cost.) If the latter is true, the only reason I can think of to stay with Delta would be frequent flyer miles (to me most frequent flyer programs are worthless piles of c**p.)

Air Canada is about as bad as some US-based carriers, but last time I checked they do fly EZE to Toronto (one-stop in Santiago) where your gf can connect onto MAN. Also, unlike the US, I don't believe Canada requires a transit visa. However, one should, obviously, check with the Canadian Embassy.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Chrisal wrote...

I'm trying to come up with is the cheapest possible option to get her to Manchester on Christmas Eve

If I read your posts correctly Delta is now offering to refund your gf's ticket. At this point I would think the price of a new ticket would border on a "walk-up" fare (high cost.) If the latter is true, the only reason I can think of to stay with Delta would be frequent flyer miles (to me most frequent flyer programs are worthless piles of c**p.)

Air Canada is about as bad as some US-based carriers, but last time I checked they do fly EZE to Toronto (one-stop in Santiago) where your gf can connect onto MAN. Also, unlike the US, I don't believe Canada requires a transit visa. However, one should, obviously, check with the Canadian Embassy.

From the Star Alliance portal to IATA's TimaticWeb application:

/ 20DEC09 / 2236 UTC



National Argentina (AR) /Embarkation Argentina (AR) Transit Canada (CA) Destination United Kingdom (Great Britain) (GB) Visited Chile (CL) ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW
Canada (CA) Visa required. Additional Information:
- Visitor seeking entry may be required to produce documentary evidence to establish, to the satisfaction of an immigration
officer,For details, click here Warning: - Visitors not complying with entry requirements may be refused admission into Canada and deported at carrier's expense. For details, click here

A visa is definitely required to transit Canada given the OP's nationality/citizenship. Wether or not that visa can be obtained in a timely manner or even at the point of transit is another issue and the Canadian consulate in EZE should be contacted.

Now he can blame you, Butch , for the mis-information!

[chrisal]

Butch I've already bought her ticket. In the end I bought it with BA which is pricey to start with but with it being the 23rd it is even more. I wanted her to go with Iberia or Lufthansa but she is so scared and paranoid that she will not get through customs (the Spanish are particularly terrible with Argentinians apparently) that I went for BA. The ticket is much more than the original Delta ticket but at least it goes direct to Heathrow and then she will take another flight to Newcastle which is where I live and my parents can pick her up on Christmas Eve at 11am. Not bad eh!
My story is a little more desperate with Delta. As my ticket is with them I unfortunately have to fly with them. After the 5th of December which was the date we were supposed to fly, I spent the next week and a half fighting Delta for compensation, and when I decided that they weren't going to help me in any way (a few days before I learnt they were going to refund my gfs ticket) I went to the office to ask for the next flight home. They told me that they had nothing til the 23rd which just made me hate them even more!
So we both fly on the 23rd but my gf will arrive in Newcastle on the 24th. I will be in Atlanta on the 24th from 7 in the morning to 8 in the evening more or less! I have to wait about 12 hours for my flight to manchester which gets in at 8am on Christmas Day. I don't even live in Manchester! I live in newcastle so my poor brother is going to have to get up on Christmas Day at 4 in the morning and drive all the way to Manchester and then to Newcastle.
Delta may have given my girlfriend a refund but they have absolutely screwed up my Christmas! Hopefully I'll get back for 12 or 1ish for dinner!
I asked them to help me and get me home sooner. I thought they would help since they admitted they were to blame so I wrote to the same person who is giving the refund, but thye refuse to help any further. I also mentioned all the money I have lost this month with fines for being in the country longer than expected, taxis, lost flights to Dublin, Rome, Edinburgh, and London plus tickets to shows and football matches. This was also ignored.
I am extatic with the refund but am furious that they will not acknowledge that their lies has left me severely out of pocket, and with an extremely difficult Christmas not just for me but for my family too.

[chrisal]

Also, unlike the US, I don't believe Canada requires a transit visa. However, one should, obviously, check with the Canadian Embassy. Quote from Butch

A visa is definitely required to transit Canada given the OP's nationality/citizenship. Wether or not that visa can be obtained in a timely manner or even at the point of transit is another issue and the Canadian consulate in EZE should be contacted.
Now he can blame you, Butch , for the mis-information! Quote from PHX

Ok so Butch isn't 100 per cent with his info but big deal it is only advise and he doesn't work for the airline who I am going to buy my flight with. And anyway he covers his back by saying one should check with the Canadian Embassy. If Delta had said the same thing, then their misinformation wouldn't have mattered because I would have looked at the US Embassy website. Butch has covered his back, Delta didn't, and that is why they are going to give me a full refund.
So, no PHX, I won't be blaming Butch for this misinformation (mainly because it is irrelevant now as I've already bought her a ticket home with BA) but also as it was only advise and he did fully cover himself by telling me to check on the Canada website to make sure).
Unlike Delta who gave me information (not advise) that was critically incorrect and didn't back themselves up by telling me to double check on the US website.
Even now PHX, you continue to try to play the "shift the blame from Delta game" even though they have sent me an email stating how sorry they were to have not given information that I expected and should have received. They are giving me a full refund, mate, what more proof do you want that they are admitting they are to blame?

[jimworcs]

Phx,
I have read your entry and links and cannot find anywhere were it says a Transit Visa is needed for Canada for the route proposed. My reading of it is that the passenger must be able to provide sufficient documentation to prove intended destination and sufficient funds to get there. Where exactly does it say you need a transit visa?

Chrisal,
I am glad you have got it sorted. Pretty sure you will have a white christmas.. it is thick snow now and cold artic weather predicted for the next 4 days...

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Phx,
I have read your entry and links and cannot find anywhere were it says a Transit Visa is needed for Canada for the route proposed. My reading of it is that the passenger must be able to provide sufficient documentation to prove intended destination and sufficient funds to get there. Where exactly does it say you need a transit visa?

When you plug in all of the required information and click "Get Information" the passport and visa requirements are displayed in two sections. The first is "Passport and Visa Information: Transit" and the second is "Passport and Visa Information: Destinations." If you select an Argentinian citizen embarking in Argentina, transiting Canada, with a destination of the UK it clearly states under the first section ""Passport and Visa Information: Transit - Canada (CA); Information: Normal Passports - Visa Required."

Furthermore, there is this information from the official government website of Citizenship and Immigration Canada:

Countries and territories whose citizens require visas in order to enter Canada as visitors

Citizens of the following countries and territories require a Visa to VISIT or TRANSIT Canada:


A
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Angola
Argentina
Armenia
Azerbaijan

This confirms that the TimaticWeb information is current and correct.

And for future reference, a Google search using the following key words, "transiting united states visa requirements" will produce a link to this US State Department web page providing all of the information one would need. A few clicks and one would see that Argentina is currently not a participant in the US Visa Waiver Program and therefore would require a visa even if only transiting a US airport with an immediate departure to another country.

All of the above information took me all of 15-20 minutes to track down on the internet. Just think if a certain individual had simply taken the same amount of time to do the same they probably would have been in the UK by now!

[chrisal]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

And for future reference, a Google search using the following key words, "transiting united states visa requirements" will produce a link to this US State Department web page providing all of the information one would need. A few clicks and one would see that Argentina is currently not a participant in the US Visa Waiver Program and therefore would require a visa even if only transiting a US airport with an immediate departure to another country.

All of the above information took me all of 15-20 minutes to track down on the internet. Just think if a certain individual had simply taken the same amount of time to do the same they probably would have been in the UK by now!

And what exactly does any of this have to do with the point of my story? Absolutely nothing! It is a bit like saying that if I had chosen the correct lottery numbers I would be a millionaire by now!
The point of my story is that Delta lied to me and as a result I couldn't fly. Furthermore, Delta have admitted full responsibility for their wrongdoing and as a result I will get a full refund.
What you are saying has no reference to the fact I have been lied to by the industry that you appear to want to have babies with.
Just to think that if Delta hadn't lied to me a certain individual would be in the UK by now.
Delta have admitted that they should have provided me with the correct information. They are going to give me a full refund. Fact! I have won this arguement! Fact! You have lost! Fact! Delta are big enough to admit they were to blame. I don't expect you to be man enough to admit it and to be quite frank I couldn't care less.

[PHXFlyer]

Lying implies intention. They did not intentionally mislead you. It was the result of a possibly under-trained agent who didn't know how to access the correct information or the result of an experienced agent who either plugged in the wrong information or who didn't completely or correctly read the output of the rules that were displayed. In either case it is a traveler's responsibility to know what the requirements are and there is only one reliable source for those rules which I have posted above.

There is a legal term called due diligence. Look it up. Also re-read the wording of the response from Delta:

Our goal is to provide consistent and accurate information to our passengers at all times. I am truly sorry that in this instance you did not receive the information you expected and should have received regarding transit VISA information for your girlfriend. Feedback like yours will help us improve our
reservations process and customer experience. Please know I will be sharing your comments with our Reservations leadership team for internal follow up.

There is no clear admission of guilt here. Even so it does not excuse you from doing what is necessary on your end. As I said before airline telephone reservations agents are not immigration specialists. I stand by my statement that it only took me 15 minutes using Google to find the wealth of information that I posted. Information that had you taken the same 15 minutes to research would have resulted in you avoiding the whole situation you're in now. Does this completely absolve the airline of blame? Hell no. Their failure to disseminate the proper information was more than a majority contributory factor. However there is still an obligation on your part (due diligence) which by your inaction was not fulfilled. Therefore you are still, even though in the most minute way, partially to blame. Why is it so hard for you to step up and admit that had you done this one simple thing differently things would be entirely different now? Hopefully you'll use this as a learning experience and also learn to accept some blame for situations in which you had at least some control over the outcome.

[chrisal]

Our goal is to provide consistent and accurate information to our passengers at all times. I am truly sorry that in this instance you did not receive the information you expected and should have received regarding transit VISA information for your girlfriend - Delta quote

There is no clear admission of guilt here - PHX quote

For one thing, they are apologising. For another, they are saying that it is their goal to provide consistent and accurate information to our passengers at all time, and that in this instance I did not receive the info I expected and should have received re transit info for my gf. This is an extremely clear admission of guilt. They start by saying what is their goal and then continue by saying that this goal hasn't been met. They haven't done what they should have done. GUILTY!!!

I am pleased that you now see this as a "majority contributing factor". However, even though the airline that my girlfriend is going to fly with has now told her that she will need a passport and a return ticket (and bearing in mind that she has never flew before) you now expect her to turn into Magnum PI and do some detective work looking up words like "due diligence". She's not a lawyer you know. She took the airlines info and carried on with preparations for the rest of her trip. She shouldn't have to check the story of one of the biggest airlines to see if they had given her incorrect information. It's a bit like saying that I've called up the bank to see what interest rates they've got, now I'm going to do some detective work of my own by finding all these interest rates for myself (just incase they were lying to me).

I stand by my statement that it only took me 15 minutes using Google to find the wealth of information that I posted. Information that had you taken the same 15 minutes to research would have resulted in you avoiding the whole situation you're in now. PHX quote

Yes PHX, obviously if we had looked up this information, we wouldn't find ourselves in this mess that we are in now. This is obvious but as I've said time and again, why should my gf turn into a private investigator when the airline has already told her what she needs. This PI work was reserved for the UK embassy website. What you have to somehow try to do here is to try and put yourselves in the shoes of people who have never flown in their lives. They don't have a clue about flying. Having said that, even more experienced flyers wouldn't even know about this. I've recounted this story many times to loads of people from many countries, and not one knows about this special transit visa for your special country.
If you try and put yourself in the shoes of someone who has never flown before (which I know will be very difficult for you but please try). Now this person doesn't have a clue about anything so they ask the airline what they need to travel and they aren't told about a visa, only about the return ticket and passport. Now do you really think that this inexperienced person who has never flown before, is going to have any grounds for doubting the word of the airline company. Why should they think that they haven't been given correct information.

What I would like to see is for Delta to bring in a model answer for questions like "What do I need to travel?" and this is "We cannot give this information. Go to the Embassy website and find it yourself." This is perfect because the call centre worker, no matter how braindead, cannot get this wrong, and it also puts all the emphasis on the passenger to do the detective work themselves. As you say it is easy enough to find, but only if you have been told to find it. If my gf had only been told this then she would have found it also. But why would she know to find it if she hadn't been told to look for it. Your arguement says that she should have checked this info herself even though she had been given the information already. If you put yourself in her shoes would you still go on the internet to check if you need a transit visa when you have never even heard of a transit visa for the US. She would need to be a mindreader to think about checking for something that she has no knowledge about.

Why is it so hard for you to step up and admit that had you done this one simple thing differently things would be entirely different now? - PHX quote

PHX it is very simple for me to admit this. Obviously yes if we had done this one little thing then we would have found out about the transit visa. But I hope the "put yourself in her shoes" exercise which I described to you above goes so way into explaining why she didn't do this one little thing. If Delta had told her to find this info out for herself then yes she would have looked it up.

Hopefully you'll use this as a learning experience and also learn to accept some blame for situations in which you had at least some control over the outcome. - PHX quote

Damn right I'll see this as a learning experience. I'll never believe another word these lying bastards from the airlines ever tell me again! And from now on I will find out all of the relevant information for myself.
But with all due resepect, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and although you may think that I should accept some of the blame for situations in which I had at least some control over, I do not feel that if I had to go back a few months and repeat this whole process without knowing what I know now, I would have done anything differently. Yes, if I knew then what I know now, then I would have certainly done a huge amount of things differently. Hindsight is not something we have in the past though, is it?

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by chrisal

Damn right I'll see this as a learning experience. I'll never believe another word these lying bastards from the airlines ever tell me again!

Still not getting it. Sad.

[chrisal]

No I think it is you that isn't getting it. You bore me! Goodbye!