[Dritt1]

I have used SW all my life. I always felt they played it straight up. When I discovered American Express and SW was no longer working together I was disappointed. I transfered 90k miles to SW.
Then I tried to book 2 flights to Vegas 3wks out (non holiday) and they couldn't do it... they have 11 flights outbound and 10 flights in bound ALL with seats. I was told all the Rapid Rewards were booked? Then they suggest I use 2x's the miles and the would book it! Doubled the price, not nice SW!

How many seats do they allow per flight. The miles could of been granted to any airline. Little did I know SW was playing a shell game. Where is Herb K. when you need something?

I feel scammed. Now I know why American Express is not working with them. They forgot about customer satisfaction. These points are the same as money to us. They still get paid regardless. If SW didn't like the exchange value then they should of changed the ratio. I have tried to contact customer relations but the LINE IS BUSY! x 8.
I hope this helps someone else from transfering points to SW no fights Rapid Rewards.

[Dritt1]

Jim Ruppel Customer Relations Director for SW your phones are still busy x 12 attempts or put the phone back in the craddle so we can tell you what a fine job you are doing!

An EX SW fan................................ we have lots of airline choices in S.E Florida you have been removed from the options.... Once again don't change your miles to SW. Capital One Visa provides much better options so we limited...

Shame on SW

[Dritt1]

Just talked to the complaint department to verify your phone # after 20+ attempts. They said your department has gotten VERY BUSY the last serveral months and you need to staff up!

I told her SW was going about it the wrong way... instead of staffing up the Rapid Rewards complaint department they would do better by solving the problems so they had less complaints!! Novel idea don't you think..

The supervisor then tried and couldn't get through either and then suggested I use 2x the points to go....

This person is destined for Upper Management too! As a last resort they suggested I start very early in the morning so I could get thru......

I see Presidential material here!!!!

[Gromit801]

Dritt, I would be very surprised if anyone at SWA customer relations reads these forums.

[Dritt1]

Why would they ... but if it keeps you from making the same mistake it will do some good. Thanks for responding

[Gromit801]

My mistake, I thought your posts read like you were trying to communicate with the reps from SWA. There have been some posters in the past who thought the website was a direct link to the airline.

[moshofsky]

Dritt1,
I concur, SW is definitely going in the wrong direction when it comes to customer service/satisfaction. I have been a SW loyalist for years yet they are deleting my expired awards (didn't know expired awards can expire) and now they only have 7 seats on a flight for standard awards... the "freedom" awards (2x) are available instead. I have to spend $16,000 in SW visa charges to earn a round trip ticket... now I have to used $32,000 worth of charges for that same round trip... what a rip off. I also found 5 carries that charge less than the SW web specials for my flight. Sad to say... SW is now not my choice airline...
Any idea of how to sell 7 RT vouchers on SW???
MO

[Dritt1]

Yes, send this email to the Vice President of Rewards. It may not seem like it matters but it does. Several agents I talked to said they are getting numerous complaints. It was sad when I tried to use my rewards... I finally got to an agent who didn't just quote policy. She was able to getting one way out and I paid for the other back. I felt at least she tried so I did fly them and the service on the plane was a good as the old days when Herb was around... Please write them ...

[jimworcs]

Frequent flyer schemes are essentially a fraud on the public. If airlines posted all the miles earned as liabilities on their bottom line, they would be effectively bankrupt. They rely on these miles not being redeemed. Such is the vast number of miles now owned, they have to rely on such schemes as reducing availability, revised expiration terms, increasing the cost of redemption and introducing charges to use them which renders them nothing more than a minor discount over the available fare.

It is really the best policy to simply shop around for the best available price at the time you wish to travel, consistent with the standard of service you require. Obviously avoiding the main culprits such as Delta and Spirit and Ryanair in Europe. Joing FF programs is a con, which creates an illusion of value. They are primarily of benefit to very frequent flyers, who don't pay the fare, such as business travellers. For the rest who pay their own fares, they don't represent any kind of value.

[MJ25]

On the declining Southwest image mentioned, a lot of it is due to the fact that among other ways to save the airline money to continue being the only profitable US carrier, they no longer have separate departments handling calls. It's one-stop shopping, you may think you're dialing Rapid Rewards, but the representative you get just finished taking a general reservations call, which before that just took a baggage call, which before that just took a travel agency call. The training is shoddy and ambiguous and they hardly give you the tools to assist the customer is a respectable manner. Which to piggy-back on that aspect, they are making senior agents take retirement, taking with them their knowledge and probably their greater respect for the job they are doing, so that the airline can hire a ton of people at a starting rate drastically lower than what the senior agents are being paid. It's no excuse, and it's a shame that Southwest has allowed this drop in their service.

I agree with jimworcs that any frequent flyer program is a sham, and Southwest just took longer to jump on that band wagon. And good luck ever getting through to their customer relations department via phone. That's another example of them consolidating different departments specializing in different areas, to one group of standardized service with not enough people to handle in the influx of complaints. The only reason I believe that Southwest doesn't get more complaints than they do, is a lot of time people know what they're getting when they book with Southwest, so when they're wronged they don't feel as though they should speak up. And Herb is probably drunk, since you asked.

[flyhi152]

Hawaiian Airlines does the same thing: Whenever you call to get an awards flight the answer it is either "Sorry, nothing available" or they offer you to pay twice as many miles. It is possible that only 1 seat per flight is made "available" for the regular price in miles and maybe another 3 for "double miles" - you can only guess since airlines keep this information as a secret. Even in a raffle or a lottery the odds of winning are disclosed. Airlines talk about "earning" miles and they would even sell them to you for $$$ without really explaining what they are worth. It is sad that these scam programs are not regulated.

[flyhi152]

I am pretty sure that these "Loyalty programs" have negative effects on some customers who would otherwise be happy with the airline. Hawaiian Airlines has a great service on board, nice flight attendants, sometimes the food is not that bad either but the way how they handled my valid complaint in regards to their "Hawaiian Miles" program made me hate them. I have traveled numerous times with SWA and was always happy with them but it looks like their loyalty program is made to **** off passengers as well.

[Viper]

Gary Kelley, CEO
P.O. Box 36647
Dallas, Texas 75235
Fax: 214-792-4842
Re: Southwest Rapid Rewards.
Dear Gary:
I am told that you read all Southwest consumer mail.
I trust that you will read this letter and consider its content.
Over the past 13 years, I have flown weekly on Southwest for both business and personal travel. The sole reason for this was Southwest's formerly easy-to-understand, easy-to-use web site, and outstanding frequent flier program.
In early March, like so many other loyal, Southwest Airlines customers, I received an e-mail from Southwest Airlines proclaiming how my Southwest Rapid Rewards Frequent Flyer program is being "improved." A quick review of the details, makes it abundantly obvious that this is anything but the plain truth.
Southwest, an airline which once boldly proclaimed: "Southwest gives America the freedom to fly," now no longer rewards its once loyal customers for flying (the essence of a frequent flier program). Now it has done an about face and has distanced itself from the previous rewards program based on flight segments flown, and has succeeded in assembling a complicated, tier/status-based, frequent flier program which encourages and rewards greater spending, ironically for the same airline seats on the same planes. Huh? (This is reminiscent of the same and wasteful excessive spending which caused the larger national economic downturn.)
An airline which once held that such egalitarian principles: "every seat is a first-class seat," now rewards you only for this increased spending, based on a now openly admittedly tiered system (Business Select, Anytime, and Wanna Get Away fares. A-List and A-List Select tiers. ). Both the tiers and the so-called rewards are expensive to achieve and offer little in return for such large expenditures.
Now customers will have to spend substantively more to achieve rewards benefits similar to those in the old plan. The most expensive fare, offering the most Rapid Rewards benefit, Business Select, now more than ever seemingly is designed for just that, the "Business Select." I thought we were moving away from corporate and business excesses and waste?
Under the previous program, most flight segments resulted in the same 1 point reward. Paying more in the "business select plan" achieved 1.5 points per segment, along with the "perks" of earlier boarding and a drink coupon. Now you get ‘points’ based on the dollars you spend. Spend more on a ticket for the same seat to go to the same place, on the same plane - you get more points, basically. 'Sound wasteful, because it is. If you need flexibility on flights with no effective change fee, and perhaps this model "flies." Otherwise, Southwest would propose to encourage you to spend more, to earn more points?
'Don't have enough points? 'Don't worry. You can buy points from Southwest. SW states: "In addition to earning points from flights and Partners, a Member will have the ability to purchase points. Point purchases must be paid for with a credit card. Points will be offered in blocks of 1,000 with a minimum purchase of 2,000, maximum of 40,000, and priced at $.0250 per point."
They are careful not to tell you that these points will not apply to elevating tier status. Southwest won't tell you that your purchase of points is done so at a significantly diminished return, far less than if you simply used dollars, and significant restrictions on how these points can be used. In other words, if you use these purchased points, in turn to purchase an itinerary, this will cost you far more than simply purchasing the itinerary outright in dollars. 'Sounds confusing, because it is.
Throughout the years, I have patronized Southwest Airlines throughout the years enduring its infamous cattle call boarding, limited airport access, old and crowed terminals, peanuts, lack of non-stop flights on long hauls, and a tiered seat system, all with the goal of economical flying, employing both a consumer friendly web site and frequent flier program.
Until now, I have flown Southwest predominantly for both long and short trips, just for its rewards program. I once believed the airline run by Herb Kelleher was concerned about and appreciated its patrons that catapulted Southwest to national prominence in the field.
Since I can now buy on other carriers at cheaper rates and with similar levels of service, this new incentive program actually will actually cause me to start flying other carriers more often. In this, I am sure I will not be alone.
There were clues as to this downturn for Southwest customers. The implementation of the "Freedom Award" - who comes up with these oxymorons? - was a hint. It effectively halved the value of Rapid Rewards Points. In June of 2010, Southwest stopped offering Rapid Rewards points through the
American Express Membership Rewards Program. The Southwest Rapid Rewards Visa card was hugely successful as its chief perk was the accrual of Rapid Rewards points linked with usage of this card. This came with higher interest rates and a $59 annual fee. Without these advantages, the savvy consumer will replace this a card with a card offering rates and more usage advantages. In June of 2010, Southwest stopped offering Rapid Rewards points through the American Express Membership Rewards program.
Southwest had offered both a simple and great reward (emphasis on "reward") program for years. It is through this program that the airline has developed its loyal fan base of customers. The fact of the matter that this a major blow to existing Rapid Rewards member and Southwest patrons.
Southwest now insults its customers with this new program, in saying that this change benefits customers when in reality it benefits more so Southwest Airlines. I am sure the competing airlines just love the new Southwest plan. Perhaps they will incentivize Rapid Rewards members to switch over?
Southwest still has an opportunity to make this right. Southwest, admit you were wrong. Return to the older (simpler) plan. Though I doubt they will.
Shame on you Southwest. Just where has the LUV gone?
In closing, I would like to cite a well written (author unknown) Facebook posting:
"Southwest had one of the most LOYAL customer base out of any airlines. Their passengers regularly raved about the Southwest experience. The company has remained profitable while most of the industry has struggled. Still Southwest felt the need to recruit the coveted BUSINESS TRAVELER who tends to (or is willing to) spend more on a ticket. The new Rapid Rewards program may to do exactly that, but the question becomes, “at what expense?”
While Southwest may increase their income, they’ve hurt–at least in the immediate future–their reputation. They were known for being different, for treating each customer the same, for keeping things simple, and for keeping things fun and honest. Now, many of their loyal fans now say “they are just like the other guys.” Southwest, in an attempt to reach one goal, sacrificed so many of the things that kept them profoundly unique and made them special.
Not only that, but then they failed to listen and at least acknowledge the concerns of a customer base that truly felt betrayed. Instead, they simply said, “it’s better” when most of their customers could plainly see, it was not–at least for them.
I’ve seen this happen to other groups who have tried to hit the same level as another organization and lose the core of what makes them unique in the process. They fold and fail. I don’t think this will necessarily be the case for Southwest, but I have trouble believing they will be able to maintain such a loyal following.
As leaders, we do need to evolve. We do need to make changes, but we also need to ask if those changes sacrifice who we are at a core, and if they truly benefit those that we serve. Southwest had built a reputation by being an airline with affordable tickets, and yet in their press release, the CEO of the company was quoted saying that he thinks the new program will get people to pay more money for tickets? (What was that last part again?)
Have you ever done the same thing in your organization? I’ve seen some schools spend so much money on making a prom “so amazing” (because they heard what another school did) that the price of a ticket
exceeds the amount that many students can pay, ultimately hurting attendance and changing the prom experience.
I’ve seen other schools complain about student apathy at events, but fail to really listen to the feedback from their peers, dismissing any critique as someone “who just doesn’t get it.”
I’m interested to see what happens with the Southwest situation in the coming weeks. I won’t say I will never fly with them again, but I’ll be honest and say that if the new program remains unchanged, they will lose a great deal of my business as it works in my favor to fly another airline now.
As we lead, as we serve, we must remember that there is never a guarantee that anyone will work with us or attend what we plan. We must all have customer service in the forefront of our minds. We must find the ways to benefit our constituents. We won’t always make everyone happy, but we must also find the ways to be real with them when we’ve upset them. It builds a better relationship in the long run. It builds loyalty. It builds advocates. "
I hopeful that Southwest has a glimmer of the humanistic values yet that led to its success to date. The lack of those values or compromise of the same will lead to its downfall.
Goodbye Southwest. It has been a great ride while it lasted.

[flyhi152]

all these games are based upon the assumption that airline customers are stupid and don't realize how they are bullsh****d by the airlines.

this might be true with a large number of passengers but what airlines are obviously are not realizing is that this is not the case with their elite customers who fly several times a week: usually these customers are managers, business leaders, people with academic degrees. You can't fool around with these people. It is just bad business to think that it does not matter to lose these customers because a large part of the profits come from them, actually it depends upon these customers if an airline turns out to be profitable or not.

The way how passengers are deceived by these "Loyalty programs" reflects the typical american way to bulls**t customers with creations like "Free Gift" (which gift is not free ???) or " $ XXX per leg based upon the purchase of a roundtrip + taxes and fees" (I am wondering when Payless Shoes is going to start to offer the price of a single shoe based upon the purchase of a pair....)

[jimworcs]

Sad to see Southwest using this kind if sophistry... The current management seem to be moving away from the culture of customer first....

[april]

I need a new airline program...I've always been able to re-up expired unused credits as many times as I needed to. No mas, no mas. With the advent of the BS points program, it's use it or lose it for previously earned rewards. I've been with SWA since they took on, and beat, Air Cal and PSA. No mas, no mas. I'm no longer a frequent flier, but generally earn 2-3 trips a year on my credit card.

When I complained about the new program, the Customer Service person repeatedly told me how much everyone loves it. I told her to go to her RR blog site and read the comments...

Any ideas on which program I should switch to?

[flyhi152]

As Abraham Lincoln once said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

[jimworcs]

Frequent flyer miles are a scam. Don't join any scheme if you buy your own tickets. Better to shop around and buy on the basis of a combination of price/convenience/experience.....

[april]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Frequent flyer miles are a scam. Don't join any scheme if you buy your own tickets. Better to shop around and buy on the basis of a combination of price/convenience/experience.....

I agree they're all scams of a sort, but since I charge everything from utilities to school tuition, to donations, to food and entertainment, I might as well get something back. So while I'm shopping for my best price ticket, I'd like to know which card to use...BTW, VA just sent me an email for a thousand bucks first class to London....hmmmm

I've thought about discover's cash back, and until the recent SWA change, I always figured I got a $500 round trip to use myself or give away...some folks sell them on auction sites for 300-500 bucks, but now it seems just as rigged as amex....maybe virgin am or virgin atlantic's charge card is in the future for me...