[Gub]

Well, this is an ongoing experience - it is currently 1.30am and I am spening the night in Atlanta Internation airport. To sum up my experience, here is the email I just sent to Delta via their website. It isn't particularly eloquent, but I'm exhausted and just wanted an outlet to vent seeing as none of the employees here are interested. Here is our story...

I am currently sitting in Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, experiencing what has been one of the worst travel experiences of my life. My journey started today at Richmond International Aiport where I boarded Flight DL5138 (departing 2.55pm) to Atlanta. From there I was meant to board Flight DL12 to London Gatwick departing (5.35pm).

Our nightmare jouney started when our first flight was delayed half an hour due to weight balance issues or something similar, that we were assured at the time was a mechanical error and not weather related, although this story would change later. We arrived at Atlanta late, but rushed to the gate for our second flight (DL12). As we arrived we were relieved to find the flight just beginning boarding. As we had boarding passes already we joined the queue to board, despite there being another queue at the desk of the gate, which we were told was for people who had missed earlier flights who were trying to get onto the current flight. Once we got to the front of he boarding queue we found our boarding passes rejected and were directed to join the other queue. We soon found out that our seats (30C and 30D) had been reassigned, and we were unable to get seats on that flight. We were however promised several times by the extremely uninterested staff that we would be able to get onto one of the two later fights, one also to Gatwick and one to Heathrow with no problems. Soon an extremely unpleasant gentlemen arrived, was rude to all the concerned customers waiting, shouted that he was closing the desk, and directed us to the desk at the gate of the next flight to Gatwick. After queueing up for that desk we were told we had not been reassigned seats on that flight and that it was full.

It was here I was treated to the single most unpleasant customer service of my life. A woman at the desk repeatedly 'shushed' me when I tried to ask what we should do, what was going on, why no one was willing to help us, and finally why our seats had been reassigned in the first place. I have never been spoken to in such an unpleasant, sarcastic, patronising way and hope I never shall again. In fact, several other customers standing nearby expressed shock and disbelief at the way this particular lady treated me, and when I asked her name so that I could make a complaint she refused to give it to me. I frequently fly long distance and have never experienced such treatment - I was shocked.

I then used one of the help phones to get in touch with a customer service rep, who booked my friend (friends name) and myself (my name) onto a flight leaving at 5.35pm Sunday this was at approximately 8pm Saturday. We were basically told that it was not Delta's problem and that we should just spend the night in the terminal - something I find myself doing right now and have never been expected to do before. I was angry but accepted it as a debacle of customer service, and just thought I would wait until I finally get back to England to complain to the UK CAA and the relevant EU authoirites.

My anger however escalted immeasurably when I later ran into a fellow customer who had in fact been behind me in the queue for the original flight. She had been given a complimentary hotel room for the night, as well as complimentary food vouchers. Of course when I went to complain I was told that as it was due to the weather that my original flight was delayed that I was due no compensation of any sort. They refused repeatedly to answer questions relating to why my tickets had been reassigned to someone else, why no one had explained the situation at the gate, why other people from the queue had been offered seats on the later flights whilst we had not, why I had been spoken to in such a digusting manner by a customer service rep, nor why other people who had arrived at the gate later than myself had been offered compensation.

Being a frequent long distance flyer I have experienced delays almost as severe with many other airlines and have never run into customer service as shockingly poor and uninterested as that I have experienced today. On other airlines I have been given accomodation, food vouchers, upgrades, and even been appologised to - none of which I have experienced nor been offered by Delta. In fact I've been shocked in the way that almost everyone I have spoken to has tried to pass me off on someone else or even shockingly tried to blame me for the situation. This behaviour is absolutely outrageous and I cannot believe I am receiving no compensation after Delta commited a series of mistakes that have culminated in myself and my friend spending a full night in the airport - with music still playing at almost one in the morning. It is simply unnaceptable and I will be complaining to all of the relevant authorities upon my final return to England.

I would like a reply to attempt to explain this incredibly poor customer service I have received, and why I have been offered no compensation nor even an appology by Delta for the events of today.

Furthermore, to add insult to injury, a woman on the telephone helpline gave me, after spending a full hour on the phone, the phone number (404-715-1450) of what she assured me was a 24 hour complaint hotine. Of course when I called it I found out it had been shut since 7pm, and I just couldn't face another hour on hold - a clever trick to get rid of a displeased customer.

I'm shocked and appauled my the ultimately unprofessional, unpleasant, and generally poor nature of the customer service I've received and very much doubt I will ever fly with your airline again. Even an apology would have gone a long way, instead I have been faced with aggression - completely unacceptable.

(As a quick addition, as I was writing this the gentleman who seemed to be in charge of the desk earlier and had misled and been rude to the waiting customers walked past joking with an older gentleman about the Gatwick flight situation - very professional)

(Signed my name)


Well, thats my story. What can I say, I'm shocked. Curently myself and my friend are taking turns sleeping on the floor - its currently her turn. I'm just shocked that they get away with treating customers so poorly. Never again.

Any advise for the best method of complaint when I eventually get back to England? If it matters any, my friend has also missed a connecting flight on another airline, and will have to pay for another flight.

Thanks for any help

Guy

[jimworcs]

Do a search for posts by Butterfingers on here.. he works for them and is able to explain how to make a complaint. It is disgusting and Delta seems to be worse than average. I once got stranded by Delta in Atlanta after a very similar situation, on a flight from Charlotte,NC. Fortunately, British Airways came to my aid, and I have never flown Delta again, and that was over 12 years ago. They are disgusting and simply do not care. They have a virtual monopoly at Atlanta, are protected from normal competition and don't care about their customers. You wasting your time pursuing them... far better to go to the DOT and complain. If the delay to your original flight was due to weight and balancing issues they have an obligation to accommodate you. I would have booked a hotel and then sought compensation from them for the hotel via the DOT. Perhaps a little late for that now.

[countrynewsman]

I hope Delta management not only reads your letter, but reads this website. I am betting they thought you wouldn't make it to your connecting flight on time and gave your seats to others. This happened to me on a United flight several years ago. I would hope you could get the names of the agents involved.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Send an e-mail to the RichmondAirport management.
http://www.flyrichmond.com/About_Us/Contact_Us.php
Ask for confirmation as to whether there was, at any time yesterday, a weather condition affecting flight departures. Then, when you get home, file a complaint with the EU airline regulatory authority. If the delay was NOT due to weather, you should be entitled to monetary compensation under EU regulations. I would also file a complaint with the (UK) CAA. Also, if RichmondAirport management confirms there was NO weather condition, send an e-mail to Delta asking the same question. Do not mention, in your e-mail to Delta, that you have contacted RichmondAirport management. This way, you can catch Delta in a lie. Enclose the RichmondAirport response, and the Delta response, with your complaints. While you are in the AtlantaAirport be careful of what you say to Delta staff. Some fellow, by the name of Miller, according to a previous post, accused a customer requesting compensation of trying to “extort” money from Delta; he called the police, and had the customer escorted into the main terminal with instructions that he was banned from flying on Delta. For future reference, if travel on Delta is unavoidable (Sky Miles program interest, or other) purchase ONLY a refundable fare. This way you are not held “hostage.” If Sky Miles/frequent flyer miles are not worth sleeping in the airport, I would suggest you explore traveling with Lufthansa. For travel to/from Europe, I've found Lufthansa to be one of the few decent airlines. True, to reach London (or other UK cities) you must transfer in either Frankfurt, or Dusseldorf, however you avoid a lot of aggravation. Lufthansa has an agreement with another bad US airline--United--to fly passengers to smaller US cities. If you book your entire trip with Lufthansa, rather than United, you have a limited degree of protection against anything United might try to do to you.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Send an e-mail to the RichmondAirport management.
http://www.flyrichmond.com/About_Us/Contact_Us.php

This is an e-mail address for the airport authority. They have nothing to do with Delta.

Ask for confirmation as to whether there was, at any time yesterday, a weather condition affecting flight departures. Then, when you get home, file a complaint with the EU airline regulatory authority. If the delay was NOT due to weather, you should be entitled to monetary compensation under EU regulations. I would also file a complaint with the

UK CAA.

The flight from Richmond to Atlanta was domestic. The international flight TO Gatwick originated in the United States. EU rules and compensation don't apply here.

Also, if

Richmond Airport management confirms there was NO weather condition, send an e-mail to Delta asking the same question.

Again, the management of Richmond Int. Airport has nothing to do with this. If there was a complaint about parking, facilities, etc. then yes. They do not have anything to do with the operations of any of the airlines there.

While you are in the

AtlantaAirport be careful of what you say to Delta staff. Some fellow, by the name of Miller, according to a previous post, accused a customer requesting compensation of trying to “extort” money from Delta; he called the police, and had the customer escorted into the main terminal with instructions that he was banned from flying on Delta.

To accept everything posted here as 100% true is mis-guided. This is why hearsay sin't allowed in court testimony. How do0 you know what was posted was 100% true? What I do know is if law enforcement is involved at the airport and the passenger they were called to deal with was banned from ever flying Delta again there must have been a serious breech of protocol on the part of the passenger. Perhaps a threat was made in the heat of anger or the passenger made or attempted to make physical contact with either the Delta employee or an officer of the law. We don't know for sure.

For future reference, if travel on Delta is unavoidable (Sky Miles program interest, or other) purchase ONLY a refundable fare. This way you are not held “hostage.”

This may not be practical or feasible given the price of refundable tickets.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

I would suggest you review the rules of this site and register, as an airline employee, before making any more posts! I haven't reviewed all your posts. But I suspect most, if not all, are in defense of the airlines. Finally, if you're not an airline employee, you're closely related to one.

The purpose of contacting RichmondAirport's management would be to obtain evidence (their statement about the weather on the departure day in question) as to weather conditions. Why do you feel said airport management is unable to supply this information?? Once this information is obtained, it could be compared against a response, from Delta, to the same question. Thus, it's possible, Delta could be caught in a lie. With their credibility damaged, this man would then be in a better position to press his claim with CAA and/or EU authorities.

As to the RIC - ATL portion of this man's ticket not being subject to EU regulations: First, I'm assuming this man did NOT buy seperate tickets for each segment. Accordingly, this would be a single trip for the purpose of the Warsaw Convention--BOTH segments, under international law--are considered to be "international" flights for the purpose of physical injury (there was no physical injury here.) Thus, if BOTH flights are covered under the Warsaw convention, the EU and CAA probably, also, recognizes the RIC - ATL segment as being covered under their regulations.

The purpose of warning this man about a possible bogus police call, by Delta employees, was simply to accomplish just that--a warning. I'm not trying to prove a court case. This, Phx Flyer, is where you REALLY come-across as an airline employee, or friend/relative of one!

The reality is, Phx Flyer, that most US-based airlines simply can't be trusted to, on a regular basis (WITH allowance being made for weather,) maintain schedules that avoid EU penalties (where applicable.) Likewise, the same can be said for reliable baggage handling. Continental MAY be an exception to this rule. That is why I urge anyone traveling to/from Europe to consider Lufthansa, even if it means going out of one's way. Lufthansa, even during these hard times has turned a profit. Yes, I know, Phx Flyer: You're going to lie, and say that profit consists of massive subsidies from the German government!

Phx Flyer: You think you're helping your friends, the US-based airlines, with your rants. Guess what? You're, really, helping us--the abused victims/customers. Your thinking (or, the lack of it!) gives encouragement to the underhanded US-based airlines to continue practices which would be cause for prosecution in any other industry. It astounds me how one can defend, or deny, holding a couple hundred people hostage on a tarmac; bogus calls to police to eject customers who ask reasonable questions; chronic lies as to reasons for delays (so financial liability is avoided); and--unhealthy conditions in coach--limited, or no, movement in your seat on long flights and stale air. This kind of unfettered behavior will result in what government has done in any situation (such as the oil companies and railroads around the beginning of the 20th century) where corporations grossly abuse the public trust. One will, indeed, return to something closely resembling the regulated days of the airlines.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

I would suggest you review the rules of this site and register, as an airline employee, before making any more posts! I haven't reviewed all your posts. But I suspect most, if not all, are in defense of the airlines. Finally, if you're not an airline employee, you're closely related to one.

Wrong! I am the highest level elite on 2 US based airlines and fly approximately 150,000 miles per year. This is not including bonus miles for status, first class tickets, or credit card purchases. 150,000 represents actual flight miles logged. While most of my flying is on SkyTeam partners, I do occasionally fly airlines which are members of Star Alliance and OneWorld.

Being a frequent flier I have had almost every experience imaginable with various airlines. My knowledge comes from experience as a customer. I am not an airline employee and as far as I know none of my relatives are. A guy I went to school with worked for AA back in the 90's at their headquarters in Ft. Worth however I don't think he ever set foot in an airport except for the occasional leisure trip.

When I discovered this forum I realized that many of the posts were complaints about issues which I agree are annoying and cause inconvenience however when people are traveling, especially those who do not travel a great deal, they feel singled out. "The thunderstorm/snowstorm made ME miss MY flight and I was stuck in the airport" or "I was late for MY connecting flight and the airline refused to hold the flight for ME." What they don't understand is that if there is a thunderstorm/snowstorm, there's many in their same situation. Holding a flight for them would inconvenience the 100+ passengers who were on the plane and in their seats on time. When a complaint is legitimate and obviously not enough was done to accommodate them then I'm the first to point this out.

The purpose of contacting

RichmondAirport's management would be to obtain evidence (their statement about the weather on the departure day in question) as to weather conditions. Why do you feel said airport management is unable to supply this information?? Once this information is obtained, it could be compared against a response, from Delta, to the same question. Thus, it's possible, Delta could be caught in a lie.

In the US airport management has control over the facilities, leases the gate space to the airlines, awards contracts for food and beverage services in the airport, etc. Contacting airport management would get no information about weather that day. The correct source would either be the National Weather Service or the FAA. Also remember that weather could have affected the aircraft at it's origin before Richmond or there may have been weather issues at Atlanta or anywhere in-between.

With their credibility damaged, this man would then be in a better position to press his claim with CAA and/or EU authorities.

There you go again with the CAA and EU. They do not regulate rules and compensation for delayed or canceled flights which originate in the US even if it's destination is in the EU.

As to the RIC - ATL portion of this man's ticket not being subject to EU regulations: First, I'm assuming this man did NOT buy seperate tickets for each segment. Accordingly, this would be a single trip for the purpose of the Warsaw Convention--BOTH segments, under international law--are considered to be "international" flights for the purpose of physical injury (there was no physical injury here.) Thus, if BOTH flights are covered under the

Warsaw convention, the EU and CAA probably, also, recognizes the RIC - ATL segment as being covered under their regulations.

As stated above, for a flight originating in the US the EU/CAA rules do not apply. The correct government agency to contact would be the US DOT.

The purpose of warning this man about a possible bogus police call, by Delta employees, was simply to accomplish just that--a warning. I'm not trying to prove a court case. This, Phx Flyer, is where you REALLY come-across as an airline employee, or friend/relative of one!

I merely pointed out that you were relying on information from another post. Have you had first hand experience with this? I have been in the presence of disturbances caused by irate passengers. Authorities are only called when the passenger is out of control, intoxicated, threatening, or any combination of these AND usually only after the passenger was warned that their continued behavior would result in a call to the authorities. I have NEVER seen anyone taken away by police for calmly and politely bringing a complaint to the attention of an airline employee. Those that post here "I never raised my voice, I was completely polite, calm, etc. BUT all of a sudden I'm in handcuffs" are out and out LYING!

The reality is, Phx Flyer, that most US-based airlines simply can't be trusted to, on a regular basis (WITH allowance being made for weather,) maintain schedules that avoid EU penalties (where applicable.) Likewise, the same can be said for reliable baggage handling. Continental MAY be an exception to this rule. That is why I urge anyone traveling to/from Europe to consider Lufthansa, even if it means going out of one's way. Lufthansa, even during these hard times has turned a profit. Yes, I know, Phx Flyer: You're going to lie, and say that profit consists of massive subsidies from the German government!

I completely agree with you. Lufthansa is a well run airline with a reputation for excellent customer service. Can they please 100% of their passengers 100% of the time? I could care less if they get government subsidies or not. I'm not a stockholder. Our own US airlines received government money after the terrorist attacks of 2001. In hindsight some of them should have been allowed to fold. Some did. With the current global economy many business will need to re-think both their short and long term strategies for remaining profitable. The airliones are no different.

Phx Flyer: You think you're helping your friends, the US-based airlines, with your rants. Guess what? You're, really, helping us--the abused victims/customers.

Rants? Really? Friends at the airlines? There are agents and flight attendants I see on a regular basis who I am friendly with, but friends? No. Abused? Really? What are they doing to you? Forcing you into your seat, strapping you in and beating you for the entire flight?

Your thinking (or, the lack of it!)

Ah, a personal attack. Had to lower yourself to that did you? Your credibility, at least with me, is now ZERO.

[jimworcs]

Whilst not wishing to intrude into such an intense dispute... would it help if I just made one clarification. The EU law that Butch Cassidy is referring to is the EC 261/2004. In fact this law states that "The Regulation covers passengers on all EU2 and foreign airlines operating from any EU state to any part of the world, and to passengers travelling into the EU".

The emphasis is mine. However, this is not clear cut, because I believe that there is some kind of caveat relating to when local regulations may take precedence and that this is already the subject of litigation. However, it is possible that both the DOT and the EU regulatory authorities may have competence to handle a complaint relating to this matter.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Phx Flyer said...
As stated above, for a flight originating in the US the EU/CAA rules do not apply. The correct government agency to contact would be the US DOT.

It appears this ruling--re Wallentin-Hermann v. Alitalia Airlines--should solidify the case of the person who began this thread. The entire story appears in the link below.


http://www.elliott.org/blog/merry-ch...inary-present/

Phx Flyer: I know you're in a state of denial. However, PLEASE read that part of the article which states that flights FROM / TO the USA are covered by their ruling. Perhaps, Phx, you will want to hop on your beloved US Airways (assuming they can get you there--in less than two weeks!) and file an appeal to the EU High Court (if this ruling didn't come from there.) One can never be too careful, Phx, your precious FF miles may, now, be in jeapordy! About your miles and fantastic "super-elite" status: If a flight attendant vomits in your face I suppose your response is to say "thank you," and can I have another 1,000 miles.

[airhead]

I have learned more about the rules of many tickets from the elite and frequent flyers than from the airline itself. I am disgusted by the lack of training I am given. I am told to take my training on the computer while on duty trying to check in passengers at the same time. I know of many agents that have received real training at the Flight Academy in Ft. Worth but my boss will not send me there because it costs too much money. So I have been put on the front lines by myself and told to figure it out. I am the first at my station to go through this and so far I have seen others, except for one, below my seniority quit under the circumstances. I am not too far from quiting myself. That is bad business.

[jimworcs]

I have significant sympathy for your situation. As the airlines are unregulated, they are engaged in a fight to the bottom and it is both the passenger and the employees who suffer. It is often the case, and I have witnessed it many times, where the passenger knows the rules better than some of the poorly trained staff. That is the result of irresponsible management. Sooner or later the chickens will come hope to roost as they did with the robber barons at the banks and at Wall Street. In the meantime you have my sympathy.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Phx Flyer said...
As stated above, for a flight originating in the US the EU/CAA rules do not apply. The correct government agency to contact would be the US DOT.

It appears this ruling--re Wallentin-Hermann v. Alitalia Airlines--should solidify the case of the person who began this thread. The entire story appears in the link below.


http://www.elliott.org/blog/merry-ch...inary-present/

To quote the ruling:

"

A technical problem in an aircraft which leads to the cancellation of a flight is not covered by the concept of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ within the meaning of that provision, unless that problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control.

The frequency of the technical problems experienced by an air carrier is not in itself a factor from which the presence or absence of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ within the meaning of Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 can be concluded.
The fact that an air carrier has complied with the minimum rules on maintenance of an aircraft cannot in itself suffice to establish that that carrier has taken ‘all reasonable measures’ within the meaning of Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 and, therefore, to relieve that carrier of its obligation to pay compensation provided for by Articles 5(1)(c) and 7(1) of that regulation."

A technical problem is a mechanical failure. The original complaint in this thread said the matter was first described as a weight/balance issue and then became a weather delay. Neither is a mechanical problem.

Phx Flyer: I know you're in a state of denial. However, PLEASE read that part of the article which states that flights FROM / TO the USA are covered by their ruling.

Some provisions of EU law regarding US carrier flights from the US to an EU member nation are enforceable however the rules of compensation for delayed or canceled flights which originate in the United States are not.

Perhaps, Phx, you will want to hop on your beloved US Airways (assuming they can get you there--in less than two weeks!) and file an appeal to the EU High Court (if this ruling didn't come from there.) One can never be too careful, Phx, your precious FF miles may, now, be in jeapordy! About your miles and fantastic "super-elite" status: If a flight attendant vomits in your face I suppose your response is to say "thank you," and can I have another 1,000 miles.

You're insane! Credibility is now LESS than ZERO!

[jimworcs]

I am pretty sure that this would not fall under the "extraordinary circumstances" exclusion, under EU law. I know that there are exceptions to the proviso, but the law specifically states that it is applicable to incoming flights into the EU. Can you clarify PHX what basis you are so sure that the US Carriers flying into the EU are not covered and liable to pay compensation? I think that would be very helpful.