[mattkay]

All of us here have a story. Mine (family of 4) is that we got to the airport at 6:00 AM for a 7:25 AM flight on 4/6/09. All the eTicket materials say be there to be boarded and ticketed for international flights 60 minutes before your flight. I normally fly domestic, and while that is sufficient, I usually leave 75 to 90 minutes and have not had a problem. So, we go there 85 minutes before flight. Now, how are we suppossedto know that our flight is on a busy travel day?? According to the staff, we were expected to know that. Unfortunately, if Continental did, wouldn't it have been logical to have more employees trained and ready for this busy day?? Well, we waited on the ticketing line with more than, and I kid you not, over 500 people waiting. And they're calling out destinations left and right...all of them, but not ours, moving everyone called to the front of the line. There are no signs anywhere that say to speak up if you're concerned about making your flight. And there's no way to see if your flight's on time, delayed, or whatever, once you get on the waiting line. Signs, anyone?? When we were not moving anywhere (because so many people were being moved in front of us for their destinations), I went up to a 'red coated gentleman' and asked when our flight will be called. There were 55 minutes until flight time. He says you have missed your flight. We closed it, he said. This after waiting on line for 30 minutes. I asked for a supervisor and she listened to me less. I must say that was the most angry I can recall EVER being. I asked why my next step was. I was told that we could go bystander on the next and only other daily flight at 9:30 am. What other choice did we have? Our hotel was hundreds of $$$ per night, and we were about to let the first night of 6 go up in smoke. When we were walking over to the gate, after security, we met another family of 5, a family of 3 and 2 ladies that ALL had the same thing happen. There were others, too. All of us were waiting as bystanders. To boot, we find out that Continental had overbooked the flight anyway and beyond that, there were other stand bye's that were from domestic and international connection misses. Needless to say, we waited in vain, and watched as people that were ticketed were actually booted off the flight also (lured with a beginning offer of $500 airline credit which was raised to $900 per person...gee, did Continental feel guilty here? , plus hotel, car, food vouchers and flight tomorrow). In the case of us and our 4 families, over 20 people, 1 told me they would never fly Continental again, and the other families were re-booked for tomorrow, but were very embittered, as they, too, had followed what was written on their eTicket. What confounded me was that no one at the ticketing area was customer oriented. NO ONE. At the gate, the people towed the 'company line', but were at least somewhat understanding. We then walked down to try to get our bags. Another nightmare! The gate attendants said they'd be on carousel 9. We went there, waited 30 minutes. Nothing. Then we went to baggage customer service. Two attendents at the counter there. One was nice but totally misinformed us...we waited again another 30 minutes and nothing happened. I then went to the other attendant, older and clearly more experienced. She said that she didn't understand why her co-worker told me what she had, and then this one made 4 phone calls, located our bags, which had been sent to 'performance' would be released to carousel 9 in about 30 minutes. This lady was truly concerned, the only person we met all day that cared. So, after a total wait of 2.5 hours for our bags, 1.5 hours for a stand-bye flight that we should never have been put on, and 1.5 hours of futility caused by Continental not having enough trained employees on staff this morning, we wasted a morning of our lives. We disappointed our children. We lost money on our hotel. Our trip was shortened a day. Am I upset? You betcha. Jet Blue is my alternative. (funny thing, I just flew Continental 2 times in last 4 months to Vegas from EWR, and aside from the skimpy seats, I felt pretty good about the flights. That's gone forever).

Oh, and I see that there are some people here that say they know Continental VP's, etc. ? Yes, let him know about this. I will substantiate it, give names or descriptions of the others who were mistreated and would love to hear how he can ever recommend for us to even consider flying his airline again. I'm so upset that I own stock in this, too. Thank you.

[mars6423]

I have flown alot, especially internationally, and everywhere that i have seen it says please arrive at the airport at least 2hours ahead of departure
I fly out of EWR newark all the time and have never had a trouble, there are signs to show you where you need to go

i dont normally fly any american airlines such as jetblue continental or any of them, ubless it is domestic

i usually fly on virgin atlanticm british airwaysm or singapore airlines and they all say 2hours minimum, and boarding closes 1hour prior and that past that it is your responsibility and they cant be held accountable, not the airlines fault since they have to keep schedule and policies, you need to give adaquet time and 1hour 30mins doesnt give much leadway and is cutting it too close

i know that singapore airlines even says 3 hours at least in singapore

everywhere i have been it says at least 2hours for international flights and i have been to alot of places and traveled alot since i used to live in singapore and it was common for international travel and since i moved here it has been the same way

i am sorry about your experince but you have to take some responsibility for it, dont wait till the last minute, and continental followed what they were trained to do, everything cant be treated personally it would take too long and there would be alot more complaints, they should have treated your bags in a better manner but its your responsibility for you to get to the airport and allow time, cant assume there will be no to little lines....not the airlines fault for you being late to check in and they cant hold a plane, and alot of the time you can check in online the night before and go to bag drop

sorry to hear you missed a day of vacation and lost that money, next time arrive earlier......especially since security reasons

[jimworcs]

Sorry, but to suggest that the level of service this customer received requires him to "take some responsibility" beggars belief. That situation was chaotic, and if his e-ticket states 60 minutes, and we have no reason to disbelieve him, then turning up 85 minutes early is a reasonable action. Many people are not frequent international travellers, so would not necessarily know to turn up 2 hours before. To be honest, it does not sound to me as if the extra 35 minutes would have made much of a difference.

That it is acceptable for a passenger to spend 5.5 hours in an airport, only to fail to secure a flight, tells you how low our expectations of the airlines have have fallen. They have trained us to accept this shoddy service, but I find it astonishing when people respond supporting this standard of service. Even if you were to find fault with the passenger for arriving at the airport only 85 minutes instead of 120 minutes ahead of the flight (and I don't see how you can, if his eticket told him 60 minutes); the standard of service he subsequently received is appalling. We seem to have given the airlines permission to hold us hostage as a "condition of carriage". It is ridiculous.

Continental's defence appears to be that it is a busy travel day!! Who would know this? No one turns up at an airport unexpectedly. Continental had the names and addresses of everyone showing up that day.. they knew how many people were booked and therefore knew how many staff they needed to process them. Joe Public only knows that he has booked, and follows the instructions given to him by the airline.

Let the responsibility sit where it belongs:

Continental were understaffed
Continental failed to manage the line in such a way that this family was able to make the flight
Continental overbooked both flights scheduled to his destination that day
Continental staff failed to provide adequate customer service
Continental staff mis-informed him where is baggage could be collected

But guess what... it is the PASSENGERS fault.

[Corbel]

on CO's website it states:times listed are peak travel hours out of newark)

EWR:
6:30 AM - 9:30 AM: 1 1/2 hours
11:00 AM - 2:00 PM: 1 1/2 hours
3:30 PM - 7:30 PM: 1 1/2 hours
Note: Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Holidays require 2 - 2 1/2 hours and ALL international departures require 2 1/2 - 3 hours. An additional 1/2 hour is required on Monday mornings..

and with it being the spring break time of year, she was cutting it close to begin with. am i saying she should have known this? no. but it is right there on the website under travel information.

yes co is responsible for everything that jim stated, but it is the passengers responsibility to make sure they get to the airport in plenty of time

[Corbel]

sorry, i have no idea how that face got there

[jimworcs]

lol... that colon probably did it!
The point is this... on the ticket, it stated 60 minutes. If an airline posts different information on different sources, then it remains their fault. How can you know which is the definitive one? The description provided of the day itself suggests that the root problem lay with Continental. They were having to pull people out of line and give them priority processing. This meant that the time you arrived at the airport bore no relationship to the time you got processed. Had you arrived 2.5 hours early, the staff were effectively bumping you further back down the queue as low priority because in the chaos they were having to prioritise those with immediate flights. The airlines have created terms and conditions which are ridiculously one sided. In the UK for example, Ryanair often "recommend" that you appear at the airport a full hour before check in opens, creating groups of people loitering around in the airport waiting to find out which check in desk will be utilised. This is purely so that they can later accuse the customer of being at fault if they didn't follow their recommendation.

[PHXFlyer]

60 minutes is the cutoff time for checking in for an international flight. If you arrive at the counter or a kiosk (not the car park or merely standing in line) less than 60 minutes before departure of an international flight they will no longer accept you for the flight. Mattkay merely mis-read this as suggested arrival time rather than minimum.

Newark is a notoriously busy airport especially, as CO's website suggests, during peak travel days and seasons. Arriving 1 hour and 25 minutes before an international flight is cutting it very close even on a regular day. For a domestic flight I arrive at least 90 minutes prior and I get to use the elite checkin and security lanes. I too believe Mattkay isn't taking enough personal responsibility for causing the missed flight. Once the flight was missed I don't think Continental could have done anything right from the perspective of this person.

...wouldn't it have been logical to have more employees trained and ready for this busy day??

Just where do you believe they should get these employees? US based airlines have laid off between 5 and 15 percent or more of their total workforce over the past year.

And they're calling out destinations left and right...all of them, but not ours, moving everyone called to the front of the line.

They probably called out your destination before you even entered the line. At least they were being proactive about processing those who were in jeopardy of missing their flights first. Yet you say there was a lack of customer service that day?

I went up to a 'red coated gentleman' and asked when our flight will be called. There were 55 minutes until flight time. He says you have missed your flight. We closed it, he said.

60 minutes prior to departure as your e-ticket confirmation said.

When we were walking over to the gate, after security, we met another family of 5, a family of 3 and 2 ladies that ALL had the same thing happen...To boot, we find out that Continental had overbooked the flight anyway and beyond that, there were other stand bye's that were from domestic and international connection misses. Needless to say, we waited in vain, and watched as people that were ticketed were actually booted off the flight also (lured with a beginning offer of $500 airline credit which was raised to $900 per person...gee, did Continental feel guilty here? , plus hotel, car, food vouchers and flight tomorrow).

So there were 14 people who missed the earlier flight because they did not arrive early enough at the airport yet you question the logic of overbooking? Were it not for overbooking your flight would have gone out with at least 14 empty seats plus the ones from the mis-connected flights.

We then walked down to try to get our bags. Another nightmare! The gate attendants said they'd be on carousel 9. We went there, waited 30 minutes. Nothing. Then we went to baggage customer service. Two attendents at the counter there. One was nice but totally misinformed us...we waited again another 30 minutes and nothing happened. I then went to the other attendant, older and clearly more experienced. She said that she didn't understand why her co-worker told me what she had, and then this one made 4 phone calls, located our bags, which had been sent to 'performance' would be released to carousel 9 in about 30 minutes.

So you were told by the gate agents our baggage would be delivered to carousel 9. You then got impatient, accused yet even more employees of not being "customer focused" but ultimately the bags showed up on carousel 9 just as promised. You blame a lack of training but this is clearly a lack of patience on your part.

So, after a total wait of 2.5 hours for our bags, 1.5 hours for a stand-bye flight that we should never have been put on, and 1.5 hours of futility caused by Continental not having enough trained employees on staff this morning, we wasted a morning of our lives. We disappointed our children.

As mentioned before Continental and most other US based airlines have been laying off employees. Since layoffs are usually in reverse order of seniority your assesment that the employees aren't trained doesn't hold water. Also I hope your kids learn a valuable lesson from this. Had it not been for your late arrival at the airport your 5 1/2 hour "ordeal" could have been averted.

[countrynewsman]

I agree that it is the passenger's responsibility to get to the airport on time. From that point on, I respectfully part company with a few of the replies.

Most of us that travel a lot are clear that EWR is a Continental hub. Because of this, and because of busy travel times, 90 minutes may be clearly insufficient. However, since I have no reason to doubt Mattkay's assertion that the eticket indicated 60 minutes, I have to question why they should be held responsible for missing their flight. Why should they be aware that Newark is a hub?

For the person who seldom travels by air, why should they not believe anything other than what is printed on their ticket? Why should they have to double check the website? It appears they showed even earlier than recommended.

I should not be interested that Continental has layed off workers. Not my problem. 2.5 hours is a ridiculous amount of time to wait for bags. Sorry, but my patience would have disappeared a bit before that amount of time had lapsed.

All that having been said...I can tell you that I do not go by what's on my eticket or on the website. I usually show at the airport much earlier than recommended, go through security, and sit in the airport coffee shop for a while. In a large city, I will just sit in Continental's Presidents Club and surf the web. As a result, I have experienced very few problems (other than a recent bag problem...GRRRRR). But the casual traveller has no reason to believe anything other than what they read on their ticket.

I am sure Mattkay (could that be Matt & Kay?) will arrive earlier in the future, but in the instant case, it is my opinion that Continental is responsible.

[jimworcs]

Ok, lets take it from the top:

Let's assume Pax is inexperienced international traveller. Judges 90 minutes before flight to be reasonable based on past experience. Ticket says 60 minutes. He may have misread or misinterpreted that, but that is what the ticket said. Pax thinks.. well I will play safe and get there an hour and half before the flight just to be on the safe side. Arrives... to chaos. Who's fault is that?

PHX says...

Once the flight was missed I don't think Continental could have done anything right from the perspective of this person.

Based on what? Pax accepted standby for next flight, and stood by and watched others failing to get on and general all round chaos. Then went to get bags and stood by a further 30 minutes, now a full 3.5 hrs since he had first checked his bags. I consider him to be a paragon of virtue.. and far from impatient.

Just where do you believe they should get these employees? US based airlines have laid off between 5 and 15 percent or more of their total workforce over the past year.

The pax is now expected to anticipate the failure of the airline to adequately staff for numbers required. Lets compare that say to a Department Store gearing up for the day after Thanksgiving. Do they staff as normal for the busiest day of the year? Or do they anticipate extra and ensure that sufficient staff are on hand to manage the workload. Does the post office anticipate extra demand at Christmas? Continental knew exactly how many customers they were going to get that day and knew how many had checked in online and how many would require their check in services. Let's see what they could do...

1. Cancel all leave
2. Draft in part time workers to do extra hours at times of high demand
3. Offer and/or require overtime from their staff
4. Hire temps to undertake less skilled tasks releasing other staff to focus on demand

It's amazing.. how did I come up with such innovative ideas when I have never run an airline? Perhaps it is because this is an exercise in the bleedin' obvious.

It is reasonable for a customer to expect a service provider to provide the service requested in a timely manner. 90 minutes before a flight is not that unreasonable. A seasoned traveller might be more cautious but who says these people are seasoned travellers. Anyway, why are your expectations of the airline so low? Now, we know that when you have essential stuff, you no longer trust the airline to get your luggage to the same destination as you, and you therefore pay someone else to provide this service, namely FedEx. Would you be so accepting if when you got to FedEx they told you that this was a very busy time, please allow up to three hours to queue before they could accept and process your parcel. Then if you don't get to the front in time, refuse to guarantee it's arrival. You still ready to pay them for the service? If not, why not?

They probably called out your destination before you even entered the line. At least they were being proactive about processing those who were in jeopardy of missing their flights first. Yet you say there was a lack of customer service that day?

That "probably" indicates you are guessing right? An alternative explanation could be that they didn't call out this particular flight becuase they knew they had already overbooked the flight and all the seats were allocated. It suited them to "blame the passenger".

Proactive processing in this case, is called queue jumping. It may have been that our OP may have got to the desk in time, but some bloke in a red coat was legalising queue jumping to cover Continental's imcompetence. This rendered the virtue of arriving at the airport early moot... because late arrivals were processed before you. So much for the early worm and savvy traveller being rewarded. In fact, Continental were doing this because they knew they were understaffed and were frantically trying to limit the damage their incompetent management of the situation had created.

I think we have covered over-booking.. which effectively renders all airline tickets a form of lottery. You are simply buying the "opportunity" to get on a flight. Arrive at the airport 5 hours before departure, queue for 4 hours whilst being glared at by hostile employees in red coats, ****** off after 5 years of pay cuts and loss of benefits and then get given a lottery ticket, sometimes called a Boarding Pass. Enter the casino some airlines call the "Gate" only to find that your lemons didn't line up and you will have to wait another two days and travel via Seattle to get from Charlotte to Atlanta. Welcome to the 21st century flying experience in the USA.

Had it not been for your late arrival at the airport your 5 1/2 hour "ordeal" could have been averted.

The "late" arrival at the airport (ie 90 minutes before flight instead of 120 minutes), resulted in a 5.5 hour delay and this is the passengers fault!! You surpass yourself PHX, but you know I still love you

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Ok, lets take it from the top:

Let's assume Pax is inexperienced international traveller. Judges 90 minutes before flight to be reasonable based on past experience. Ticket says 60 minutes. He may have misread or misinterpreted that, but that is what the ticket said. Pax thinks.. well I will play safe and get there an hour and half before the flight just to be on the safe side. Arrives... to chaos. Who's fault is that?

PHX says...



Based on what? Pax accepted standby for next flight, and stood by and watched others failing to get on and general all round chaos. Then went to get bags and stood by a further 30 minutes, now a full 3.5 hrs since he had first checked his bags. I consider him to be a paragon of virtue.. and far from impatient.

I only said he was impatient when waiting for his bags, which required special handling since he was standby, not before. My comment was that from the moment he was told his flight was closed for check-in I think nothing the Continental employees could have done would have altered his perception.

The pax is now expected to anticipate the failure of the airline to adequately staff for numbers required. Lets compare that say to a Department Store gearing up for the day after Thanksgiving. Do they staff as normal for the busiest day of the year? Or do they anticipate extra and ensure that sufficient staff are on hand to manage the workload. Does the post office anticipate extra demand at Christmas? Continental knew exactly how many customers they were going to get that day and knew how many had checked in online and how many would require their check in services. Let's see what they could do...

1. Cancel all leave

When they grant leave it is based on anticipated flight loads. They offer fewer vacation slots during peak periods.

2. Draft in part time workers to do extra hours at times of high demand

Continental already employees many part time employees at their hubs. They also offer part time as an alternative to furlough for full time employees if available.

3. Offer and/or require overtime from their staff

They can only force mandatory overtime for a given number of hours per week due to union contracts.

4. Hire temps to undertake less skilled tasks releasing other staff to focus on demand

The hiring and training process for US airlines is very expensive mainly due to the extensive background checks and drug testing that must be performed. This expense and the time necessary precludes hiring temporary labor.

It's amazing.. how did I come up with such innovative ideas when I have never run an airline? Perhaps it is because this is an exercise in the bleedin' obvious.

No comment!

It is reasonable for a customer to expect a service provider to provide the service requested in a timely manner. 90 minutes before a flight is not that unreasonable.

It is when check-in is cut off at 60 minutes and the queues are more than 30 minutes long!

A seasoned traveller might be more cautious but who says these people are seasoned travellers. Anyway, why are your expectations of the airline so low? Now, we know that when you have essential stuff, you no longer trust the airline to get your luggage to the same destination as you, and you therefore pay someone else to provide this service, namely FedEx. Would you be so accepting if when you got to FedEx they told you that this was a very busy time, please allow up to three hours to queue before they could accept and process your parcel. Then if you don't get to the front in time, refuse to guarantee it's arrival. You still ready to pay them for the service? If not, why not?

I have waited in line at FedEx at holiday time to send gifts to family. They have an 8 PM cutoff to guarantee overnight delivery. If you're still in the queue at 801 PM then your package will not be guaranteed to arrive until the 2nd day.

That "probably" indicates you are guessing right? An alternative explanation could be that they didn't call out this particular flight becuase they knew they had already overbooked the flight and all the seats were allocated. It suited them to "blame the passenger".

Proactive processing in this case, is called queue jumping. It may have been that our OP may have got to the desk in time, but some bloke in a red coat was legalising queue jumping to cover Continental's imcompetence. This rendered the virtue of arriving at the airport early moot... because late arrivals were processed before you. So much for the early worm and savvy traveller being rewarded. In fact, Continental were doing this because they knew they were understaffed and were frantically trying to limit the damage their incompetent management of the situation had created.

This "queue jumping" is common practice when things get hectic at Newark. They'd rather get people processed and to their gates rather than have to clean up the mess of passengers who missed their flight because of the queues. The planes will depart with or without them and sometimes during peak travel periods a missed flight means a two or three day wait for a confirmed seat to the destination.

I think we have covered over-booking.. which effectively renders all airline tickets a form of lottery. You are simply buying the "opportunity" to get on a flight. Arrive at the airport 5 hours before departure, queue for 4 hours whilst being glared at by hostile employees in red coats, ****** off after 5 years of pay cuts and loss of benefits and then get given a lottery ticket, sometimes called a Boarding Pass. Enter the casino some airlines call the "Gate" only to find that your lemons didn't line up and you will have to wait another two days and travel via Seattle to get from Charlotte to Atlanta. Welcome to the 21st century flying experience in the USA.

The slot machine analogy has me giggling. Go to the gate, pull the one-armed bandit... Really, though, if you check in online and get a seat assignment chances of being involuntarily bumped are slim. And there are always those who will take the incentive to bump voluntarily freeing up seats. I don't mind overbooking. An airline seat is a perishable commodity. Most airline tickets are valid for a year and can be reissued with a fee so the price of the ticket for that empty seat can be applied towards another. I also sometimes take advantage of the offers to bump. On Continental alone I've been compensated with vouchers totaling $1500 in a single day plus was put up in a hotel overnight.

The "late" arrival at the airport (ie 90 minutes before flight instead of 120 minutes), resulted in a 5.5 hour delay and this is the passengers fault!! You surpass yourself PHX, but you know I still love you

No way to tel if the extra 30 minutes would have made a difference or not. It sounds like it was a crazy day at EWR. I hope the next time these travelers allow a bit more time even for a domestic flight. Once or twice I have been waiting in the "Elite Access" security line and noticed someone looking frantic. I motioned for them to join me in the faster security lane and just told the ID checker he or she is with me!

[Silent Bob]

I have to say I travel through newark quite frequently, usually on Continental (Unless its United) and believe me when I say, Term C, on any given day, is a chaotic mess. If you don't give yourself enough time, you're done. I've taken a flight out to Mexico, connecting through Houston that's at 5:30 in the morning. I arrive at 3 am and honestly at that time, it's packed because of the many latin america flights. And at this time of year (Spring break and now easter sunday) it's crazy. We can't always say that if you're late its the airlines fault, there has to be some personal responsibility in this. And in this case, this is clearly the fault of the OP for not giving themselves enough time to get through the cue. The baggage issue could have been handled better, but if your flying out of Newark Airport, 2 - 3 hours international, at least 2 hours domestic.

[Leatherboy2006]

Someone on here mentioned having agents have to do "mandatory" overtime.
For a company to lay off so many people and then expect the people not laid off to do "mandatory" overtime is not fair to the employee. Like all of us they have lifes outside of the job. If any company finds they can't function without the laid off employees then maybe the lay offs were not justified.
If mandatory overtime is required no wonder employees are not being passengar friendly, they seem to be asked to do more of the work, forced extra hours and probably with pay and benefits cuts....before harking on the agents I would begin at upper managerment.

[jimworcs]

It was me Leatherboy, but we agree. The mandatory overtime wouldn't be needed if the airline managers were able to manage their airlines more effectively. Nevertheless, they still have a duty to provide sufficient staff to deliver the service they have already sold. Afterall the passenger has pre-paid and cannot take their business elsewhere on the day if the service is not delivered.

[mattkay]

THank you, Jim, Leatherboy, and those who are non airline sympathizers. Why doesnt this field have to obey the laws of common courtesy? Is it the fact that in many cases, these larger carriers have a virtual oligopoly? The bottom line is that there is little scrutiny of how they mishandle the consumer and as such they can get away with murder...almost. How can Continental justify it's economy class shoulderwidth's? What average size male can fit in them? I just flew to Vegas, a 5.5 hour flight, and walked to the back of the plane midway through....most of the middle-seaters had pulled out their tray and were trying to sleep on it on their crossed arms. How do they get away with this???

Well, back to my saga. Day 2 was even more compelling. Yes, we are responsible people. We learned from yesterday. We got to the airport at 5:15, 2:10 before the flight. For those who say I should know better, well, I did learn from the day before. However, not being an international traveller, I had no idea that we needed to be there 2 or 3 hours ahead. I read the eTicket. Silly me.

So, we moved through ticketing, bp, and unloading luggage quickly enough that we were in President's Club by 6:05. You do the math. That is what I was expecting, BUT did leave some extra time ANYWAY the day before. Now, you tell me that Continental shouldn't have known that Monday was going to be an unsual day? Sorry, they bear responsiblity.

So, prior to boarding, at the gate (boarding began 15 minutes late) came the usual,....'we're overbooked folks..were looking for a few volunteers..' and no one budged. So, they boarded the plane. The initial offer was $500 to delay till tomorrow. Well, this time, those who lost out, aside from people like the 20 of us from yesterday, was a grandfather who was travelling with 9 of his family. His ticket was double assigned and he was not allowed on the plane. Also, a mother of two, had one of her sons double assigned and he was left at the hangar. In all, we waited 1hour 14 minutes at the gate while Continental officials negotiated with the mother, the grandfather and begged on board passengers to accept their offer. The offer went from 800 to 900 to 1000....and after a long period of time, 2 passengers accepted $1300, plus hotel, car, food.....to accept flying the next day. WOW!

During the deliberations, and since I was sitting (and not about to stand up for a second) right next to the family of 9 sans grandpa, we were told by flight attendants that there were over 28 people sitting at the gate today. How nice. So, all those were sitting there and they were really negotiating for the grandpa and the mother's son. Also, I asked the attendant how long they would hold the plane? (we're always told to rush, get on the plane...don't keep them waiting). She said as long as it would take. Two hours? Yes. Three? Never seen it, but yes.

Ok, so, let me get this straight, what about the people ON the plane who have connections? Cruises to get to ? Other flights? People waiting to drive them? Are they just chopped liver? Again, no concern.

What does this prove?

1. Overbooking has become a staple with Continental, at least on this flight
2. A genuine insincerity with their passengers. A mother not taking a son? A grandfather and sponser of this trip not going with family?
3. The customer means nothing.
4. There is no higher authority that looks out for the little guy. Where is the FAA, DOT to say something here? Continental can get away with what they want.

Well, I did send in an email to the DOT, complaints division. I'll be curious as to what, if anything evolves. I will let you know. As well, I sent a letter to Kellmer, CEO of Continental, and Ms. Munoz, their customer care director. Will anyone listen?

I am a responsible individual. My wife and I are intelligent; we both hold post-graduate degrees. I am simply amazed that, day in and day out, they get away with this.

Those who sympathize with the airlines, I understand some of your thoughts. In my letter to CEO Kemmel, I did state that this must be a difficult environment for their business. Recession, terrorism causing needed costly security increases, some competition (not enough), and increasing gas prices. However, it does not allow them to mishandle relationships and manhandle their customers. I believe that many customers would leave Continental if other airlines that supply Newark had more convenient flights. Continental has, unfortunately, cornered the market. Jet Blue is much more comfortable, and the screen at the seat is great. As well, their employees are kind and human. However, their EWR flights are, as yet, inconvenient. Delta, AA, they just don't have much of a mix in EWR. So, those of us by this hub are pretty fixed on just dealing with what Continental throws our way. There should be more competition. If so, good bye...

[mattkay]

1. The Fedex analogy is inappropriate. I had already paid for these tickets.
2. We are not seasoned international travellers. Had I known, I would have gone up to the front. I am glad you know it. You're protected. However, the bulk of flyers are still inexperienced and would fall prey to the same problem.
3. 3.5 hours is ridiculous. I'd like to charge them the same rate I charge my clients for MY time. Please. You're ridicuous.
4. It is none of my business as to whether or not they have hiring practices. How about the unwritten contract that when I purchase a ticket, I have the right to be treated with care and concern and for them to have the appropriate staff on duty to get their job done competently?

[jimworcs]

Quite right, and the contract you had with Continental ain't really unwritten.. you have a right to expect delivery of a basically competent service. Don't forget the 90 minutes or 120 minutes they advise you to allow including allowing for getting through check in, passport control, security and the getting to the gate. If check in takes up the whole time span, there is something radiclaly worng with the system.

[Leatherboy2006]

Don't know if its still true or not, but a friend of mine that flew EL Al? the jewish airline, they said they were told they had to be in the line quo 2 hours before departure at the ticket counter. At 2 hours they closed up the line, they didn't care if you showed up at 1 hr 59 min. You were not going that day.
Is this a old wives tale or true?

[The_Judge]

So many issues here I don't even know where to begin. I think I'll just address one for now and maybe come back later as there is so much info here.

The overbooking issue. The OP has seen it for 2 days and suffered from it on the first day but yet still has contempt for the agents in the tone of the post. (IMO)

I didn't work for CO but have been in their place (Supvr for NWA). Your post comes across, at least to me, that you are blaming the CO agents for overbooking and people not getting on the flight. Having been in their position countless times for over 20 years, it is not easy to day after day after day try to "buy" people off a flight. It gets old. We do not do the overbooking. Believe me, if we had some say, flights would be only booked to exactly capacity of the aircraft. An agent, believe it or not, does have feelings when they see a family miss a flight unwillingly, it is not something that amuses them or makes them happy cuz they know after the flight leaves, they are gonna get an earful. You think they want that? They want eveyone on the flight, out of their hair. They have had to deal with alot of crap internally and then are expected to smile at people who want to verbally tear them a new one.

The agent is there to help you get on your flight. A wise and older co-worker once summed up our job in a few simple words. "We put people on airplaines." No more, no less. We aren't there to screw people as we know how it feels. You missed your flight due to management's overbooking and time constraint policies and the agents did their best to help albeit without a smile. Chalk it up to a lesson learned, give your opinion to others and fly another carrier. Fact is though, you will receive the same treatment as the employees are still just people.

[jimworcs]

I am a bit surprised Judge that you got "contempt" for the gate agents in the original post.. I didn't pick that up. This is a difficult issue of passengers. For gate agents, they see this daily. I am sure many don't like the rules and policies of the airline, but it becomes routine for them to have the implement them. For the passenger, particularly the non-business customer, this is a time of heightened excitement/anxiety, travelling on holiday or for family reasons.

To be denied boarding due to overbooking when this is your one holiday per year, perhaps your first time abroad and in this day costing you one day of a six day vacation is a stressful and upsetting experience. To whom are they supposed to direct their distress/anger/demands? Continental are a corporation, so the only human they can deal with are their paid representatives. It is inevitable that the representatives will take the brunt of this. The pax in this position feels powerless, stressed, upset and angry and how no outlet. They are entirely at the mercy of the airlines and the sense of injustice can be enormous.

My dislike of Delta goes back to a time when I had very little money. I was living in the US, so thousands of miles from my family. I had booked a flight to the UK to see my family after 2 years of being away. I had very little money and it had taken a great deal of effort to save up the money and I booked 9 months ahead of time. I had a total of 10 days vacation per year and I was using 7 of them for this trip. Those days were precious commodities to me, and the cost of the trip was wiping me out. I got to CLT for the short hop to Atlanta, then onward to London. Delta bumped me off the flight to Atlanta (along with, count them, over 20 others! so much for a "small number" of passengers being overbooked) and essentially abandoned me at the airport. The attitude of the staff was essentially a shoulder shrugging, "these things happen". I was angry, upset and powerless. Delta's total lack of customer care was atrocious.. to whom was I to address my feelings. The most annoying moment was there was a large group of abandoned passengers standing in front of the gate agent. The gate agent said loudly, "I can't deal with you all like this, you will have to go to the ticketing desk" and then walked away. How powerless do you think that those 20 odd people felt at that moment? What consequences would you expect? What is routine for the gate agent, can be devastating to the passenger.

In my case, I was lucky. At this time, BA still had a direct London-Charlotte connection and they helped me, even dealing with Delta to get the ticket transferred. Delta did absolutely nothing. I have never flown Delta since, and BA have been rewarded for their customer service by the fact that I have flown with them many times, but on the day I was powerless, frustrated, angry and upset. I think the staff have to recognise that these human emotions are generated in part by the actions of their employer and have some understanding of where the customer is coming from.

Anything I have just said should not be interpreted as excusing passengers who are abusive, threatening or violent.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by mattkay

Needless to say, we waited in vain, and watched as people that were ticketed were actually booted off the flight also (lured with a beginning offer of $500 airline credit which was raised to $900 per person...gee, did Continental feel guilty here? , plus hotel, car, food vouchers and flight tomorrow)

The little digs using words such as booted off, lured and asking did they feel guilty. This is common practice among all airlines to use an "auction" type system to get the necessary number of people required.

For the OP's info, these particular people weren't booted, they accepted an offer. The word lured makes it sound as if it's a shady used car deal. And then asking if the agents personally feel guilty about this. This is not something they created, it's something they have to deal with.

Just one more quickie....you mentioned in the beginning of your post that it becomes routine for them. Yes and no.......not many agents preferred to work an overbooked flight. It means whiners asking for seat changes galore and also trying to get vols while trying to get seats for those with confirmed tickets without seats yet and then when they do get seats, sometimes they are couples or families who then obviously want to sit together and there is nowhere to move them. (Man, that's a long sentence.) Some agents thrive on that crap but 99% didnt'. It is not something that the agent finds routine even after 2+ decades, I never found it routine.

[mattkay]

Thank you for your response. In no way was I blaming the ticketing people. They COULD be kinder and more responsive as they are customer service individuals. Why can Jet Blue's and Southwest's ticketers perform this same task with a smile and a show of understanding?? No, I agree, this is a system wide problem. This is management. But as the little guy, I don't like it. I have always stood up for my rights and will try to do so here. But I understand what you say. Thanks.

[countrynewsman]

I believe the proof that it comes from the top down is the experiences I have had on Southwest. They treat their employees well, and it shows.