[countrynewsman]

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

Although it is clear that this forum is for people to share their complaints about their airlines experiences, it is still a forum. And while most complaints have been met with helpful tips, there are some that are... questionable?

I totally agree. There is a big difference between a forum and a complaint site such as "untied.com". On that site, there is simply a list of complaints about United (note: the spelling of the site, "untied" is correct).

I feel we need to face facts that airline travel of the 1970's era is gone. There is no pub on Continental nor is there a piano bar on American. Frankly, I don't care about those, nor do I care about gourmet meals. I care about efficient service and on-time performance, both which are sadly lacking. I do agree that deregulation was a horrible mistake and we need to see that reversed.

As to disappearing flight attendant unions, good luck. Just try that under the present administration. I believe those unions come under the Railway Labor Act, if I'm not mistaken.

[jimworcs]

Well, I think it is time for me to retire from this site, because I do think that without discussion there is not really any point to this. There are lots of sites which allow people to just rant their complaint, but I felt the value of this site was that there was discussion which could either, help the poster get a resolution, or test if the poster was complaining legitimately. My view was that such an approach was valid. If we are to get the airlines and more importantly congress to pay attention to the issues, we must distinguish between those complaints which address the abuse of monopoly power by the airlines, and those which are either frivolous, not valid or in some cases ridiculous. Let me give some examples...

A poster recently had a confirmed reservation for his family to fly to Mexico. Delta sought to charge the customer more after re-scheduling his flight. There was extensive discussion about the merits of the complaint, but the OP was given specific advice on how to address this and encouraged to fight the decision by Delta. In the end, the OP won the battle and was re-scheduled onto direct flights at no extra charge. This is an example of the merits of the feedback elements of this forum.

In another posting, the OP complained that her child had not been seated near to the front of the plane, and her complaints about this lead ultimately to her and her child being asked to leave the plane. The OP then claimed the airline was responsible for causing PTSD in her child. This poster was challenged (by me amongst others) as to whether this was a fair criticism of the airline and also challenged customers expectations of what is essentially a form of mass transit. The value of this is to educate potential passengers as to what are the realistic expectations of an airline and also to clearly delineate the difference between legitimate criticism and ridiculous demands. This is equally important if change is to come. The airlines will point to these ridiculous complaints to defend themselves, ignoring the legitimate ones at the same time.

I think this debate is important and that the "airline defenders" play an important role in this approach. At times, the posts have crossed the line. I think PHX on the airline defender side and Butch Cassidy on the anti-airline side have both over stepped the mark for example, but on the other hand, many of their posts have been very valuable both in providing information, insights and in debating and highlighting the key issues. I think the site benefits from this type of debate. Although I didn't want to see anyone banned, I thought the Administrator was right to fire a shot across their bows.

However, I think the warning to Silent Bob is of a different order. I think it is fair to say that Bob is generally speaking supportive of airlines and their staff. However, I do not think any of his posts have overstepped the line into being abusive. To question a version of events is, from my perspective, a legitimate activity in an airline complaints forum. I have expressed my concerns privately to the administrator, but I think it is clear that we don't agree, and as this is his forum, his viewpoint wins! That is fair enough.. I didn't set it up, design it, run it or pay for the bandwidth necessary to sustain it. I have decided to stop posting on here and move on to other sites which are a little less restrictive in relation to debate. I am sure I will log on from time to time to read what is happening, but with the boundaries set so tightly, I think this will be my last post. Adios amigos.. it was fun while it lasted!!
Jim

[countrynewsman]

Have a good time, folks. I'm outta here as well. Good luck, Mr. Administrator.

[AirlineComplaints.org]

For those of you leaving us, we recommend reading the Forum Rules/FAQ next time you join a forum.

Ours clearly states:

7) Why are the complaint sites for each airline a forum?
Because we believe that's the absolute best medium for a public complaint site. A forum makes it easy to post and categorize complaints, respond to complaints, and search for complaints, while simultaneously making every post public for anyone, including non-members, to read. It has the added advantage of creating a community of users than can help and support each other.

Many of the posts from Pro-Airline members have been neither helpful nor supportive for the OP.

Furthermore, we never said don't debate with the OP's, we merely stated that if you are going to debate, then debate with FACTS, not opinions. Facts are helpful, opinions generally are not. Those that do not see that important distinction are generally the same kind of people that like to argue for the sake of arguing.

If you want to debate with opinions, we have an area for that. It's called the General Discussion forum. Feel free to let loose there regarding any topic or complaint, but please refrain from discrediting new members or attempting to belittle their Complaints inside their own Complaint thread. That is not what this forum is for.

For those of you who weren't here at the beginning, we also recommend you read this post and this thread so that you may be enlightened as to why we wish to ensure replies to OP's are always supportive, helpful, and solely based on facts. There will always be members here with certain agendas, and it is the responsibility of the staff here to keep those in check for the safety of the community.

Have no doubt about it, this is a 100% Pro-Consumer website. However, that does not mean we are Anti-Airline, which is precisely why we encourage members of the Airline industry to help and support people's complaints as they are often times the best-equipped and informed to provide advice on these very topics.

What this site is not, however, is a space for Airline employees to release their own pent-up frustrations about their experiences with customers and take them out on new members.

We are the #1 Airline Complaints site on the internet and we intend to keep it that way.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

The previous posts reminded me of an often noted criticism, of "OPs," by pro-airline posters: Those who fail to familiarize themselves with every conceivable airline rule open themselves to the unspoken "penalty" of being "banned" (by pro-airline posters) from commenting on any adverse consequences as a result of such failure. First, I'm not talking about "obvious" rules like staying sober, not smoking, and taking your seat when told to. I speak of those less obvious (hidden??) rules. If someone is missing one or more pieces of checked baggage at their final destination how many people know you forfeit a lot of rights if you don't file a missing baggage report before you leave the airport? Travelling, by air, from point A, to point B, and avoiding a major expense beyond the cost of one's original ticket, may require a knowledge of airline and Federal rules comparable to a complete understanding of the entire Internal Revenue Service Code. Many states have long since passed laws requiring consumer contracts be written in "plain English." It's time Federal authorities, among other things, demand airlines stop hiding their true agenda behind 6 point type; foreign accents, and endless policies du jour.

[AADFW]

The three posters who claim they'll no longer post to this board previously posted nearly 950 times combined. To put this in perspective, there are fewer than 1200 original airline-specific complaints on this board in total.

Draw your own conclusions on what the numbers mean. I'm betting that "new" pro-airline members with "new" screen names will emerge in the very near future and post with a similar degree of frequency. Stay tuned.