[donaldbane]

I had the misfortune of traveling with Air France last week from New York to Valencia, changing in Paris. I travel from the USA to Europe at least 5 times a year but this was the first - and last - time with Air France. I arrived at JFK and was told by the guy at the check-in that the plane was completely full and that although I was confirmed on the flight I would have to stand aside 'with those other people' until I could be found a seat. His supervisor then had a word with him and it seems that as I was a man and in a reasonably fit condition I could have a seat by the emergency exit if I would agree to be of assistance in an emergency. In my haste to be sure to get aboard I agreed. Although these seats are sought after by most people because of the extra leg room I do not like sitting in them. I got to the boarding gate to find that the flight was delayed by half an hour due to 'technical problems'. That was extended to 2 hours at which time we were invited to come to the gate and get a voucher for 'something to eat and drink'. The value of the voucher? US$7! I dare you to find something to eat and drink at any airport - never mind JFK - for $7.
After another hour we boarded the plane and spent the next hour and a half taxi-ing to the runway.
The video screen in my seat did not work so it was a boring flight. It was anything but boring after arrival tho.
Anyone with a flight connection - and that was most of the people on board - missed it! I can assure you that there were people in a far worse situation than me regarding onward flights - but this is my story. As I lined up at the Air France desk - along with everyone else - for new instructions I could hear the staff telling people that the flight had been delayed because the aircraft had been hit by lightning and therefore Air France was not responsible for the passengers wellbeing while they were waiting for new onward flights - for up to 2 days in some cases (one lady working with the UN was flying on to Africa) . In my case the wait for my one and a half hour trip to Valencia would be 8 hours. I live in New York and although it had been raining that day there was no lightning so I turned to the people in the line and said in a loud voice "Do not accept their story about a lightning strike - it was a technical problem and they are responsible for looking after us". The Air France staff were furious and told me to be quiet or they would call the police. They said that they would tell the passengers what the problem was. I said I could speak to the people if I wanted to. It then degenerated into a slaging match - but they did not call the police. I had an 8 hour wait without so much as another $7!
I hope you dont mind this long-winded account but I guess I needed to get it out of my system.
No matter what anyone says on this website - Air France is THE worst airline
PS - my nightmare continued when I arrived in Valencia and my bag was not onboard! If you can stomach anymore from me then please see my reply in the thread "Air Europa is the worst airline ever"

[mars6423]

first of all, you cant prove that the plane wasnt hit by lightning, just because it was raining in JFK (i live 20miles away but my closest airport is EWR) the flight could have been hit on its previous flight over here, unless you know the weather over the atlantic, so for you to start yelling saying dont listen to their excuse is way over the top, especially if it was hit by lightning, and if it was and they didnt get everything checked out than you would be complaining about that

also if your complaining about the $7 vouchar for food than that is crazy, they didnt have to or need to give you any vouchar, i have been on a trans atlantic flight that was delayed at least 2hours and we didnt get anything, i also missed my connecting flight and was put up in a dirty hotel for the next flight in the morning (this was christmas eve) it was a 22hour flight from EWR to Singapore (SIN) if you want you can read my story (go to Virgin Atlantic - complaint) and i still dont think virgin is close to being the worst airline, and i will travel with them again, in fact i am going with them in about 3 months for my connecting flight with singapore airlines

from what i can read in your story is that you could have created havoc and chaos and Air France could have called the police if they needed

[donaldbane]

First of all - I do not have to prove that the aircraft was not struck by lightning! It is AF that has to prove it was! They were clear and abrupt in telling exausted passengers that because of "the lightning strike" AF was not responsible for their well being. I believe they were using the weather as an excuse to avoid their obligations. To even suggest that Air France were correct in wanting to call the police because I insisted in telling my fellow passengers what I thought were the rights and wrongs of the situation is a shame on you. Where I come from we believe in the freedom of speech. Even if the aircraft had been struck by lightning then that had to have been on the previous flight - not ours!! To what degree do passengers have to take responsibility for an aircrafts mishap? 3 delays down the line? 4 delays down the line? Air France were taking the **** and leaving distraught passengers stranded in Paris at the end of a long and delayed flight. They dealt with everyone abruptly - and even offhand - if passengers dared to disagree. I travel internationally every month and have done so for years. We are only four and a half months into the year and already I have been to the US 3 times and to Australia on a seperate occasion. I am well used to air travel and to airlines - I have traveled with just about all of them - so please do not tell me that I am not entittled to make my case at the time and place. The only havoc and chaos taking place was caused by AF.
Just because you are prepared to accept being shafted by Virgin putting you in a dirty hotel etc please do not expect others to do the same. You may have been treated like a decent human being had I been on the same flight as you and been prepared to defend your/our rights.
Good luck with your future travel.

[mars6423]

i didnt say you had to prove it, and you tried to make a scene for something you had absolutly no idea about, and if Air France told you that it was a lightning stike than you should believe them, unless you want to go and do all the checks and see for yourself in which you need info on the plane, and not go into the situation thinking that any AF member will say it to cover them

and just to let you know that freedom of speech doesnt cover everything, your not allowed to insight a riot that can cause violence, and i am sure you know it is against the law to shout fire in a crowded area where no fire exists (yea so it is the same situation) so there are restrictions to freedom of speech

also i know some people who were arrested for lesser problems than what you said over here in america so your basis of freedom of speech entitles you to whatever you want to say is a little crazy
(more types of illegal use of speech- verbal abuse, harrasement, defarmation of character, many more)

well congradulations that you travel so much? want a cookie?

[donaldbane]

Make your mind up! In your first post you said "first of all, you cant prove that the plane wasnt hit by lightning" to which I replied "I do not have to prove that the aircraft was not struck by lightning!" And then you reply "i didnt say you had to prove it" - DUH!
Thank you for the offer of a cookie - but no thanks. A cookie and a 'pat on the head' from Virgin may work with 'liverlillies' like you who are then happy to accept being put in, as you say, a dirty hotel, but it will not work with people who have some backbone. My reason for pointing out how much I travel was not to impress someone like you who is prepared to support a multi national airline which abandoned its passengers/customers on a technicality but to show that I have at least some idea what I am talking about. There was no benefit for me personally as my connecting flight was only 5 hours later but I will not standby and see inexperienced travellers or 'sheep' such as yourself be hoodwinked.
I will not get into a debate with you about freedom of speech - I have the feeling that you are a 'Yes Man' anyway - however, I will continue to speak up against what I consider to be injustice against my fellows - whatever the consequences!
Please feel free to write to me again should Virgin decide, on your return journey in three month time, to place you in your usual room in your dirty hotel - and would you like a lollypop? - there's a good fellow!
Meanwhile I fly back to the States next week with Air France - I wonder what surprises they have in store for me! Then a month later I fly to the UK for 4 days before returning to NYC for 3 weeks before I fly to Argentina for ....................

[mars6423]

all i said is that you cant prove it, and when i said you didnt have to prove it was replying to you about what you said, not goin back to what i said in the first post, im just sayin dont make accusations on something that you have no evidence of and cant back it up

there is a difference between standing up for others and accusations, and accusations get people no where in many situations
its funny how you call me an unexperiencened flyer and a sheep, i have flown alot and a fly frequently so dont state something that you have absolutely no idea about

and if you think that since i said im flyin with virgin n than singapore airlines in 3months means i hardly fly than yea your wrong again, thats the next time i fly with them, didnt say it was the next flight i am taking

and since you keep bringing up the virgin flight, i couldnt care less about it, there was nothing i could have done about it and nothing or very little they could have done, they dont control the hotel so its not their issue, and i dont know if you read my story or not, but if you did, the flight attendants have no control over connecting flights so askin them was a little pointless other than to see if there was anyway to help us which in the end didnt matter

maybe on your next air france flight they will delay it and say the flight was attacked by aliens from out of space, this isnt our responsibility

[donaldbane]

OK - I'll give you one more go! Whether I can prove it or not is not, for me at least, an issue. It was, and still is, my opinion that Air France used the excuse of a lightning strike in order to avoid the financial responsibilities that a delay due to a technical fault (which is what they announced it to be) would have subjected them to. I was there and you were not. If for one moment you imagine that your beloved airlines are above such underhanded tactics then you are the alien from outer space - very droll, by the way. It was totally clear to me that they were bull****ting. But as I say, it is only my opinion and I am entitled to express my opinion and I will do so whenever I see fit. So - it was not an accusation but my expressed opinion. Their immediate and over reaction to my opinion only helped to confirm what I and others felt sure of. As I said - you were not there and so know absolutely nothing about it except what I tell you.
I did not say that you were an inexperienced traveler - I have no idea how well traveled you are - nor do I care. I did group you with what I called 'sheep' as that is the opinion I have of you from your comments. After reading your latest blurb, I stand by that opinion.
I don't "keep bringing up the virgin flight" - you brought up the Virgin flight by posting on here - I mention what I need to about it in order to make my point! If you couldn't care less about what happened to you on your Virgin flight then why did you bother to write about it? I care very much about what happens.
If you just carry on making excuses for them and letting them treat you and your fellow travelers in the same way then it becomes your fault.
Maybe on my return flight with Air France they will be delayed - as you suggest - but you can bet your bottom cookie that I will be right in there holding them accountable. I might even say you said 'Hi' - I can just hear their reply now - "Ahhh... if only they were all like him."
Dont get caught with your hand in the cookie jar!
Adios

[donaldbane]

Another lightning strike!! I bet AF wished they hadn't used that excuse for the many hassles they caused me and my fellow passengers and who knows how many others. Now that they have lost the lives of hundreds of their passengers and crew and, without even knowing the why and wherefore, they proclaim a lightning strike as the cause and the reason to blame - and this is before they have even located their aircraft!! I guess they are making sure that should there be any survivors they, AF, will not be responsible for their passengers wellbeing as the circumstances were weather related - just like the AF we have grown to know and hate!
Poor me - I have my return flight across the Atlantic with this hopeless airline tomorrow. I am not expecting any more then their normal service - God help me

May the unfortunate passengers and crew on Air France flight AF447, on this day - the first of June 2009 - rest in peace

[Jetliner]

Dude, you are jumping way too far to conclusions. As of this moment they still have not found the aircraft, and all the conjecture of a lightning strike is so far purely from idiots in the news media who want to come up with the cause of the crash right now for ratings. They are only going by the fact that the aircraft sent automated messages that included an electrical problem and since there was mention of the plane possibly flying through a storm they assume that it got struck and that took the plane down.

While it's too early to rule out lightning, I think I would have a better chance of winning the lottery about 5 weeks in a row. The truth is EVERY commercial aircraft in the world gets struck on average once per year.