[LJEsposito]

Philadelphia Airport – US Airways Terminal B Departures – June 21, 2009 5:30 PM
My wife's company paid premium rates a month in advance and she arrived at the airport 2 hours ahead of her departure but was told the flight (1144) was overbooked by 25 people and that she was being bumped. They gave her a $450 dollar voucher and booked what they claimed was the next available flight late in the afternoon the following day. I tracked down what appeared to be the only manager on duty, John Carasquaro (C) who had a line waiting to see him. A gentleman who I later found out to be from Homeland Security jumped in front of everyone in line. I asked him what he thought he was doing and Mr. C said it was company business. He spent 15 minutes researching the gentleman’s problem while the frustrated customer in front of us waited crying to catch her flight to LAX. She was directed to the line because she was unable to check in using the automated kiosk and the attendant told her that she had to speak with the manager. She befriended us and we agreed to get her luggage to her mother if she could catch her flight (729) leaving in 30 minutes since it was too late to check it. But by the time she finally got through to the manager, he told her that it was now 20 minutes before takeoff and that no one else could check in. He said there was absolutely nothing that he could do even though I told him my wife had recently checked in minutes before a flight. The best that he offered to do for this woman was to book her a flight late in the afternoon the following day. The woman left crying. I took her phone number and will investigate if legal action is an option for her and if Mr. C was negligent in his duties.
When we finally got to Mr. C I asked if there were any flights from any airlines from any neighboring airports that could get my wife to any neighboring airports to San Diego (including LA) before the following day. She was representing her company at a very important conference and missing half the conference wouldn’t even be worth the trip. He checked and said there were none, claiming he’s not authorized to check neighboring departing airports where I was willing to drive her, nor airlines like Southwest that aren’t partnered with US Air. He added that he was acting well within FAA regulations that are spelled out on my wife’s ticket envelope which I couldn’t locate. He further defended the actions with lengthy discussions on how individuals try to rip off the airlines, as if I cared. He claimed that we could avoid this in the future by going to the US Air Website and reserving our seat before coming to the airport as if the $900 paid a month in advance meant absolutely nothing. I would like to review the FAA regulations because I consider it an egregious offense for a manager to defend his airline’s sub-ethical practices by misquoting some FAA regulations.
When we went to baggage claim to find out who we should call to get my wife’s luggage, which went without her on her flight to San Diego, directed to our home in the event that her travel plans our canceled by her company, they said that we would have to make a special trip back to the airport to fill out a claim since such claims could not be processed over the phone.
As mentioned I would like to know where I could find a copy of the FAA regulations that have jurisdictions over these practices. I intend to pursue this every way possible until resolved
Thank you
Larry Esposito

[PHXFlyer]

Airline agents often use the terms "FAA" and "DOT" almost interchangeably. They are not! The FAA regulates safety issues. The DOT is responsible for gathering data and tracking complaints about the airlines.

That being said, the DOT won't care how much you paid for your ticket but the airline should. Unfortunately when they are over-sold the last to check-in are the first to be bumped regardless of what you paid. It is always a good idea to check-in online for flights and obtain a seat assignment. As long as you are at the boarding gate when they begin the boarding process you cannot be involuntarily denied boarding.

When one is involuntarily denied boarding the airline will try to offer compensation in the form of a voucher. You have a right to request cash compensation which is calculated by the value of the fare paid. I'm guessing this is the only time the fare paid for the ticket was a consideration because they obviously didn't want to cut a check and issued a voucher instead. The acceptance of a voucher also allows the airline to report the denied boarding to the DOT as voluntary rather than involuntary.

[LJEsposito]

PHXFlyer - thanks for your reply! I'm glad someone heard my cries. I don't expect much in the way of replies from the no doubt overworked Aviation Consumer Protection Division and especially not the online US Air Complaint form I filled out. But I WILL pursue this!

It's interesting that banks can screw your life up royal if you're late for payment once or twice but if they grossly and negligently mismanage their funds so that they can put more money into the pockets of their fat cat executives they cry to the government to have the same people they screwed subsidize their recovery in the name of saving our economy.

Airlines are no different! Twenty five people were *identified* as overbooked! There must be a limit to this callous practice. And what justifies such greed (i.e. taking more money than services you can provide). When they reach 100% booking they get their money for the non-refundable cancellations and they cover the losses of the refundable ones with the premiums they charge for such tickets, so who is kidding who? And if they have the right to make their profit why don't I have the right to demand that they get me to my destination in a reasonable time - NOT 24 HOURS Later. This was a critical business trip and we were willing to travel to and from airports different from those on our paid itinerary but they weren't willing to do the legwork. WHY NOT?

Then, there's the compensation bartering! As if the people who are enticed by such practices that cost the airlines little more than a vacant seat on one of their upcoming flights justify this subterfuge. There are times when the only compensation I want and I need is that you do everything in your power (and mine) to get me to my destination as quick as possible. If that means paying the freight for a non-partnered airline or the taxi fare to get me to neighboring airports then so be it. Letting airlines continue to perpetrate these atrocities because there are those willing to accept them is a crime to the rest of us who are inconvenienced well beyond this compensatory charade.

If the officials litigated and enforced *fair* practices rather than the greedy ones they supported in exchange for untold perks then far less people would be getting screwed day in and day out at airports around the country.

The airlines and most other huge corporations have learned how to make large profits on the ignorance of the consumer. And they've come to depend so much on these nefarious profits that they can't compete if they don't continue to think new ones up.

Thanks,
Larry Esposito

[azstar]

US Air, in particular, does not follow FAA procedures on overbooking (yes, it's FAA federal regulations regarding this subject). They deny boarding immediately to people who do not have advance seat assignments. FAA regulations require that they must FIRST ask for volunteers and if they get no volunteers they can bump passengers according to their priority. Most airlines will bump the last passengers who check in, but some deny boarding according to the fare paid, or frequent flier status, etc.

[LJEsposito]

Thanks AZStar, I did read this in the US DOT Aviation Consumer Protection Division Overbooking Fly Rights which I'm printing out and taking with me the next time I take my wife to the airport.

I've also posted the following to our city newspaper, our TV station and my Congressman ...

To The Philadelphia Inquirer, ABC 6 News and my Congressman, Joe Sestak,

I think it is wrong for airlines to be allowed to overbook flights indiscriminately. How do I initiate litigation to correct this unfair practice? If there are those that want to make a reservation on a booked flight then they, and they alone, should carry the risk of no seats available. If the airline needs to adjust their policies and rates for refundable and non-refundable tickets to ensure a profit then so be it but selling services which you know you can't provide, is wrong! And limiting compensation efforts for such egregious practices adds insult to injury. A handful of airline executives get richer at the expense of often times significant disruption in a multitude of consumers' paid in full travel itineraries. There are enough security, natural and mechanical frustrations that must be mitigated in travel today that compounding this with greedy profit motives is simply unpalatable.

Thanks,
Larry Esposito
(LJEsposito – yahoo email)

P.S. I am following up with a 3 page letter (Facts, Frustration and Follow-up) to Deborah Thompson, US Airways Director of Consumer Affairs and Doug Parker, CEO.

[azstar]

I agree that overbooking should be discontinued. Years ago airlines overbooked because in the era of paper tickets they didn't know who was ticketed and who wasn't, and most fares were refundable, so they ran the risk of losing money when people didn't show up. However, these days 98% of passengers have e-tickets, and 99% have nonrefundable tickets. So, if the passenger doesn't show up they're not going to get their money back, and they're going to pay more to fly on a different flight (that applies to Southwest also, for those of you who are going to jump in and say "Southwest doesn't have change fees....) Most of the lowest fares, I believe, are not valid for a different flight if you fail to call or show up for your original flight.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by azstar

US Air, in particular, does not follow FAA procedures on overbooking (yes, it's FAA federal regulations regarding this subject). They deny boarding immediately to people who do not have advance seat assignments. FAA regulations require that they must FIRST ask for volunteers and if they get no volunteers they can bump passengers according to their priority. Most airlines will bump the last passengers who check in, but some deny boarding according to the fare paid, or frequent flier status, etc.

Find it and post it here then!

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by azstar

(yes, it's FAA federal regulations regarding this subject)

Uh, WRONG. It's the DOT that regulates this. The FAA does not get involved in ticketing issues. They are concerned with the safety side of things.

Also keep in mind that the FAA is a part of the DOT.

[LJEsposito]

I was extremely impressed to get a non-canned response so quickly from US Airways Customer Relations. I truly give them kudos for this and it has dissipated much of my frustration with them. My real concerns may be beyond the scope of this forum since they apply not only to airlines but hotels and other institutions which intentionally overbook to increase profits. I'll post my response which includes the key phrases expressed by their well spoken respresentative. Unless there is any additional interest, I'll pursue my concerns in more appropriate venues.


Thank you for your prompt response. While there *may* be legal and economic support for the airlines overbooking policies, I still believe that it is an unethical practice to increase profits at the expense of the inconvenience and frustrations of an untold number of customers.
While the words “fares would have to be increased dramatically” may be convincing to most, to me, I simply hear you saying that there is a steep price to pay for ethical practices. And *that* is a very slippery slope!
While the words “based on careful historical analysis” might be assuring to most, I wonder why such analyses aren’t shared with the customers forced to suffer the consequences when reality is so far removed from analysis and 25 customers get bumped. Hopefully, there are government constraints to ensure that such analyses aren’t unfairly tweaked for the purposes of competitive advantage.
While the words “volunteers are solicited” may be comforting to most, the Flyer Rights regarding overbooking on the US DOT Aviation Consumer Protection Division Website suggest that this is more than an extended courtesy and actually a federal requirement. Are airlines always in compliance? There have been reports to the contrary, including US Airways. Perhaps non-compliance happens out of ignorance or expedience.
While the words “passengers who did not check in early” may be a fair selection criterion to most, to me, it favors the advantaged over the disadvantaged, those more typically lacking in the resources to print from the Internet, whose arrival times may be less within their control and who are more apt to lack the resources and wherewithal to fight for the rights for which they paid.
While the words “on the next available flight” may be reasonable to most, to me, the unspoken limits on such determinations would surely infuriate any customer whose urgency requires more committed efforts. In most failed ethical transactions, it is the victim, and not the perpetrator, who drives the conditions for an acceptable resolution.
As you can see, I still have many questions and concerns regarding the issues to which you responded, as well as some that you did not. Regarding my observations of the unfortunate young woman who was unable to get the help of your employees to make a scheduled flight with her companion even though both arrived to the airport together long before their flight and, in desperation, she even eliminated her baggage constraint 20 minutes before departure.

• What’s the deadline prior to departure for checking bags?
• What are the exceptions, if any, for checking bags late?
• What’s the deadline prior to departure for checking in (without bags)?
• What are the exceptions, if any, for checking in late (without bags)?
• Who is the highest manager on duty at the airport?
• What is the best way to reach them in an emergency?

I’m hoping that you can direct me to the best resources within your company to get these concerns and questions addressed.
While I don't expect anyone at US Airways, not even Doug Parker, to address my main concern about the unethical practices of overbooking, I do want to make sure I fully understand all the regulations and policies that could otherwise frustrate our travel experience so that I'm not at the disadvantage that most other customers find themselves.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to pursue my main concern with my Congressman, any appropriate government agencies, attorneys, various media outlets and any forums appropriate for such discussion.
Thanks, Larry Esposito

[abutterfinger25]

The oversale/overbooking regulation is 14 CFR Part 250 and it is regulated by the DOT not the FAA.

LJesposito: Was you wife offered the cash compensation? Carriers must make that option available, however they can offer the vouchers in lieu of cash, but it is the passenger's decision on which form to take.

[abutterfinger25]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

The acceptance of a voucher also allows the airline to report the denied boarding to the DOT as voluntary rather than involuntary.

Actually, if a passenger is denied the opportunity to board an oversold flight, the carrier has to report him as an "invol". It does not matter if the passenger accepts a voucher instead of cash.

Also, if a passenger misses the check-in requirement for an oversold flight and is denied boarding, that passenger is also to be reported as an invol, even if he is not entitled to compensation under the Part 250.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

I was extremely impressed to get a non-canned response so quickly from US Airways Customer Relations. I truly give them kudos for this and it has dissipated much of my frustration with them. My real concerns may be beyond the scope of this forum since they apply not only to airlines but hotels and other institutions which intentionally overbook to increase profits. I'll post my response which includes the key phrases expressed by their well spoken respresentative. Unless there is any additional interest, I'll pursue my concerns in more appropriate venues.


Thank you for your prompt response. While there *may* be legal and economic support for the airlines overbooking policies, I still believe that it is an unethical practice to increase profits at the expense of the inconvenience and frustrations of an untold number of customers.

I think "unethical" is pushing it a bit. Don't you? An airline seat is a perishable product. If an aircraft goes out with empty seats it means lost revenue for the airline. One may argue that most fares are non-refundable and if a passenger no-shows then the seat is paid for anyway but remember this isn't always the case. If a passenger mis-connects in a hub city they are put on a later flight for no additional charge. If someone intentionally or by circumstance misses their flight even a non-refundable ticket can be re-booked for a fee. Even in those cases sometimes the fee is waived.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

While the words “fares would have to be increased dramatically” may be convincing to most, to me, I simply hear you saying that there is a steep price to pay for ethical practices. And *that* is a very slippery slope!
While the words “based on careful historical analysis” might be assuring to most, I wonder why such analyses aren’t shared with the customers forced to suffer the consequences when reality is so far removed from analysis and 25 customers get bumped.

Actually, there is historical data which is collected and analyzed by revenue management which sets the numbers for each flight. I've met with some of these people at two airlines I fly with often and you wouldn't believe all of the data they collect. Sometimes a flight will be overbooked beyond the limit initially set. This occurs when there are operational issues such as cancellations or delays due to weather, mechanical failure, or other unforseen issues. The reason those numbers aren't shared is that it is proprietary information just like the number of seats an airline allocates to a particular fare.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

Hopefully, there are government constraints to ensure that such analyses aren’t unfairly tweaked for the purposes of competitive advantage.

They are definitely "tweaked for the purposes of competitive advantage. It is a business, not public transportation. There are stockholders to answer to.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

While the words “volunteers are solicited” may be comforting to most, the Flyer Rights regarding overbooking on the US DOT Aviation Consumer Protection Division Website suggest that this is more than an extended courtesy and actually a federal requirement. Are airlines always in compliance? There have been reports to the contrary, including US Airways. Perhaps non-compliance happens out of ignorance or expedience.

Personaly, I have never seen a situation where a flight was overbooked and volunteers weren't solicited. I have volunteered on numerous occasions myself when my plans allowed some flexibility. I have seen Continental offer as much as $700 in vouchers to volunteers on an overbooked flight. The object is to keep the numbers of involuntarily denied boardings down.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

While the words “passengers who did not check in early” may be a fair selection criterion to most, to me, it favors the advantaged over the disadvantaged, those more typically lacking in the resources to print from the Internet, whose arrival times may be less within their control and who are more apt to lack the resources and wherewithal to fight for the rights for which they paid.

Now that's a stretch. Typically one who can afford air travel typically has internet access in some way shape or form. I believe Southwest Airlines, who many refer to as "Greyhound of the Air", books over 2/3 of it's tickets online. You see people posting to this forum all the time who say "I was denied boarding because I missed the check-in time at the airport by two minutes." They were able to access this website to bitch about a situation which was their own fault but yet had no computer access when it came time to check in for their flight? Bull!

Furthermore online check-in is available a full 24 hours prior to the departure time of the flight. Even those without internet access at home could find the time to go to their public library, a coffee shop or internet cafe, or a friend or neighbor to check-in for their flight.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

While the words “on the next available flight” may be reasonable to most, to me, the unspoken limits on such determinations would surely infuriate any customer whose urgency requires more committed efforts. In most failed ethical transactions, it is the victim, and not the perpetrator, who drives the conditions for an acceptable resolution.

Sometimes during peak travel periods or major weather disruptions the next available flight might very well be the next day or two or three days later. If that's the case ask for a refund and call Amtrak or Greyhound.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

As you can see, I still have many questions and concerns regarding the issues to which you responded, as well as some that you did not. Regarding my observations of the unfortunate young woman who was unable to get the help of your employees to make a scheduled flight with her companion even though both arrived to the airport together long before their flight and, in desperation, she even eliminated her baggage constraint 20 minutes before departure.

• What’s the deadline prior to departure for checking bags?
• What are the exceptions, if any, for checking bags late?
• What’s the deadline prior to departure for checking in (without bags)?
• What are the exceptions, if any, for checking in late (without bags)?
• Who is the highest manager on duty at the airport?
• What is the best way to reach them in an emergency?

1. Either 30 or 45 minutes depending on the airport for domestic travel. International flights also depend on the airline and airport.

2. Sometimes airlines will allow a late check-in with bags if the passenger agrees that the bags may not be on their flight. In this case it is the passengers responsibilty to pick up the bags when they arrive. The airline will not deliver the bags and will have the passenger sign a release of liability.

3. At most airports it is the station manager. There are some hub airports where there might be an exec. who is also there but the station manager oversees all the day to day operations.

4. The station manager cannot be on duty 24/7. That's why there are supervisors. In most cases a supervisor has the last word on any decisions about passenger issues.

Originally Posted by LJEsposito

I’m hoping that you can direct me to the best resources within your company to get these concerns and questions addressed.
While I don't expect anyone at US Airways, not even Doug Parker, to address my main concern about the unethical practices of overbooking, I do want to make sure I fully understand all the regulations and policies that could otherwise frustrate our travel experience so that I'm not at the disadvantage that most other customers find themselves.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to pursue my main concern with my Congressman, any appropriate government agencies, attorneys, various media outlets and any forums appropriate for such discussion.
Thanks, Larry Esposito

Honestly, you're wasting your time. Airlines have been overbooking for years and will continue to do so. Even Southwest, this "shining star of customer service" overbooks. The only airline who claims not to overbook on a regular basis is JetBlue. If overbooking is a major concern to you when choosing an airline then I suggest you fly them.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

The experience you described could have happened with almost ANY airline serving Philadelphia. However the staff of other airlines might have been a bit more cooperative. Philadelphia International ("PHL") is a zoo. To call it a transportation facility is almost a contradiction. "Transportation" DOESN'T happen almost as often as it does at PHL. If anti-social airline staff don't stop you from getting off the ground, some power-drunk TSA staff will.

One is better off paying for a limo, or one-way rental car, to Allentown (Lehigh Valley International--ABE.) ABE is small enough that staff who dare to act like jerks will draw attention to themselves. A trip to LAX will involve, at least, one connection--in Detroit--but the point is you get to your destination on the first try!

As I may have mentioned previously I lived, for 25 years, about 45 miles north of PHL. Accordingly I can remember when the place was a clean, albeit quaint, passenger-friendly airport.