[The_Judge]

Are my posts invisible? Maybe everyone has me on ignore. This is not an issue. I can understand the parents being worried but this is handled seamlessly countless times everyday. Mom and dad, don't worry. Mom will be able to sit next to your daughter.

If the issue is why can't it be done ahead of time, here is the answer. People book and reserve seats trying to be as far from somebody as possible. If the configuration is 3-3, singles will obviously choose aisles and windows leaving the middles open. Pairs will choose an aisle or window and seat next to it, or if they're smart, choose and aisle and window hoping the middle stays open. If it doesn't, the person that had the middle will certainly swap that middle for either the aisle or window so the pair can sit together. Whatever scenerio, look at what's left, a single seat in each row. An airline can only offer what's available. I understand it's a 4 y/o and mother but if there are no seats to pre-reserve, THIS IS HANDLED AT THE AIRPORT. This is a common issue that happens so often that it's second nature to the skilled agents to handle. A bit of fun there but please people, there are things to get worked up over, this isn't one of them.

[Silent Bob]

Nope I see your post and I agree with you that this not really a complaint or anything to make a big deal out of it. This is something that can be handled by a gate agent as a) no one, not even the coldest of hearts wants to see a child seperated from their parent, especially a 4 year old, and 2) no one would want to sit next to a child, if the mother isn't there. I know I for one would absolutely give up my seat if it means the parent will sit next to their child. The OP needs only wait until they arrive at the airport and speak with a gate agent, it's really not that difficult.

[justme]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Justme
You are pre-occupied and locked into the blame culture, which I recognise is a strongly held value at Delta, but you just can't see the wood for the trees. It is not the OP's fault, nor her 4 year old daughter. Instead of offering reassurance, Delta have made the situation worse and sought to blame others. This is the antithesis of good customer service. Own the problem and fix it - it makes no difference if the problem was caused by Expedia - they can't fix it and you CAN.

I still find it amazing that you are willing to say this.. and you think there is nothing wrong with your position:



She is 4. It is unbelieveable that you are preoccupied with fault and the price would have to be paid by a 4 year old. Let me be clear:

Even if the OP was to blame, and then got the airport so late, all the seating had been allocated. I would still argue that Delta has a responsibility to the 4 year old child to ensure her well being and safety. The ONLY way they could do that would be to seat her with her guardian, in this case her mother.

I find it astonishing that you would prioritise the needs of other passengers who had booked a seat, or potentially paid for them, over the safety and well being of a 4 year old.

Soulless and heartless doesn't cover it.

Jim, you have obviously missed my point... while I do say it is not Delta's fault that it happened, I most certainly agree that they SHOULD be fixing it... I have quoted myself saying so below.

I admit, we could be trying harder to change your seats, but I'm not sure how all that ticketing and seating works since you didn't book directly with us.

Whether or not it was caused by the airline, a ticket website; aka: the devil (Expedia in this case), or the customer, we as employees should be doing our best to fix the problem and keep the customers happy.

I agree with you that Delta should be doing everything in their power to change her seats so that they will be together, but I still stand by the FACT that it is not Delta's fault she is in this predicament.

The blame in this mess lands solely on Expedia, but the responsibility for a solution lands solely on Delta. I have absolute faith and confidence that they will be moved to sit together

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

As for this...

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

It seems to me the OPs have the mindset that the only assistance would be to provide them with adjoining seat assignments now rather than wait until 24 hour online check-in or at the airport. It seems this was explained to them (possibly not in the most customer-friendly manner, but remember we're hearing this from the parties who aren't "getting their way") several times by at least a couple of phone agents and supervisors.

Originally Posted by jimworcs

I don't get that from the post... not sure how you have arrived at that conclusion. I am sure if Delta had given the mother a guarantee she would not be separated from her child, that would have sufficed.

I arrived at that opinion/assertion because of the following statements:

Originally Posted by Max Fuhrmann

My wife has complained to Delta to only receive a non comital, and what I would describe as a standard "cut & paste" reply. Delta Airlines get back to her and say that it is a first in, first come basis. OH DER, we all know that & that is why we booked the tickets & seats together. Delta has the attitude that we only wanted to book our seats last week although they could see that a request was put in earlier.

So this is an account of the first contacts with Delta over the seating issue. The "cut & paste" response that they couldn't be accommodated ahead of time and to wait until check-in was not accepted. Additionally I first thought that "OH DER" was a typo for "Oh dear" but then realized in all-caps "DER" was a jab insinuating the people they were dealing with were somehow mentally deficient. I don't know about you but I haven't uttered the phrase "DER" since I was in first grade. This was not a very mature expression.

Originally Posted by Max Fuhrmann

There is ABSOLUTELY no commitment to customer service to "go that extra mile" to help my distraught wife who knows what is coming up on this flight and my soon to be distraught 4yr old daughter when she finds out when it comes up ! I only hope that common sense pervails with nearby passengers where a quick resuffle can be done BECAUSE sure as hell, common sense is not forthcoming with Delta Airlines.

Distraught? There are way more important issues for one to be distraught over. A bit of hyperbole, but I digress. Again they are assuming the worst case scenario (I know, it's Delta, one should always assume the worst...etc.) but the statement does illustrate the fact that they are aware that there may need to be some re-shuffling at the airport or even on the aircraft once boarded so the message that they will need to wait until departure day to get their final seat assignments has been understood yet they still persist in demanding that the issue be sorted out prior to that.

Originally Posted by Max Fuhrmann

I only wish that I found this website b4 I booked the flight because I can see here that we are not alone here with our frustrations and it is obviously a waste of time to complain because they take no action anyway.

Again the complaint here is that they are not taking action. It's not because they won't it's because they can't. Seats set aside for airport assignment are done so for just this reason. If they made exceptions for everyone who called in with a similar issue then what would be the point of holding back a block of seats from being assigned? The airport agents are much better equipped to handle this. They know on the day of departure who has and has not checked in. They process upgrades which will free up additional seats in the economy cabin. They are aware of families traveling together and the ages of the children and will prioritize the requests by who must sit together and who is requesting seats together for mere convenience. I think you'd agree it's much more important to ensure that a 4 year old is sitting with a parent than a normal 14 year old.

Originally Posted by Max Fuhrmann

HOW CAN AN AIRLINE PROVIDER ETHICALLY LET A 4 YEAR OLD TRAVEL SEPERATED FROM HER PARENT ON THE SAME FLIGHT. God only help them if the unimaginal ever happens to my daughter while on Delta Airlines.

We too, will NEVER choose to fly Delta Airlines ANYWHERE in the world, they may as well go bankrupt again - no skin off our nose !

Speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by Miriam Fuhrmann

To Justme - I am actually the one flying this weekend and have tried to get answers from Expedia as well as Delta. Of course, no one will accept "blame" - I am not interested in anyone doing that, what I had hoped for was that someone would actually toe the line and assist. I can assure you that the flight will be very unpleasant for the other passengers if we do not get to sit together.

Again by their definition "assistance" in this case is providing adjacent seats now and nothing less. Assistance can't, by their definition, be an explanation that they will simply need to wait until they get to the airport for their seat assignments.

Originally Posted by Miriam Fuhrmann

Also, on their website it states that children of a certain age need to be accompanied by an adult, either a staff member (which incurs a fee) or their guardian. Now, technically, my daughter will be travelling alone if she has to sit by herself

More rationalization for "now" versus "later".

Originally Posted by Miriam Fuhrmann

I actually know quite a lot about best practice customer service and this is the complete opposite.

If the OP knows quite a lot about best practice customer service then they should know that not every single request can be fulfilled exactly as the customer expects and in that event a compromise needs to be reached. In this case the customer expects, no demands, that they be accommodated ahead of time. That cannot be accomplished so the compromise proposed by Delta was to wait and have it done at the airport. The OP is rejecting that compromise. So what is Delta to do now? It's a no-win situation because the customer refuses to accept the compromise and Delta can do nothing more than explain to the customer, again, that they will be accommodated at the airport.

[jimworcs]

Phx.. that is a very long post, to not produce any evidence to support your assertion! I am stating that at no time has Delta provided a guarantee to the mother that she will be seated with her child.


My suggested response addressed directly the issue of Delta being unable book the seats.

Mrs. Fuhrmann, we are so sorry that Expedia have let you down this way. Unfortunately, all our seats for advance booking have now been reserved, and we are unable to book two seats at this stage for you. However, Delta would never separate you from your 4 year old child on such a long flight. In fact, we set aside a number of seats which cannot be reserved for precisely this kind of situation. These seats are allocated at the airport. I will put a note on your reservation explaining the problem, and we will ensure that you are seated together. Please arrive at the airport early to give the agents time to make the arrangements. Thank you for choosing Delta and we are sorry you have had this difficulty. I hope that has put your mind at rest.

You, Justme and The Judge have all argued that the passenger should be simply reassured "not to worry, it will be handled at the gate". Not once has this been guaranteed. Justme continuously quotes the bits of his postings which support his suggestion that it will all be ok, but in the fine print of his response is a huge "escape clause".

If an agent said to me...

"don't worry we will sort it out at the gate, I am sure it will be fine.. but the airplane could be completely full, which means in order to change your seat, potentially several others would need to be changed as well. Why should they be forced to change seats because Expedia didn't follow thru with their side of the deal and book the proper seats?"

Which in essence is what Justme has said, I would not find that reassuring.

That is before we get onto the issue of the reliability of the word of Customer Service agents working for Delta. My original issue with Delta involved a Delta agent telling me a bare faced lie. My response included the reassurance of a notation being placed on the file that the mother was guaranteed to be seated next to her child. If you are all so certain this will be done at the gate, why are Delta not willing to say it? Because... the OP knows, that no such guarantee has been made. The reassurance offered by Justme and The Judge are not reassuring. I accept the word of both of them that many times they will do their best to make sure this would happen. But people are at the mercy of the agent. It is naive not to realise that many people have very negative experiences of agents and FA's, who are at the end of their tether and simply don't care. I wouldn't want to take that chance myself.

[justme]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

If an agent said to me...

"don't worry we will sort it out at the gate, I am sure it will be fine.. but the airplane could be completely full, which means in order to change your seat, potentially several others would need to be changed as well. Why should they be forced to change seats because Expedia didn't follow thru with their side of the deal and book the proper seats?

While in essence you are taking two different sentences and making them one, I do see your logic for concern. The weight behind our argument that they will most likely be moved with no problem is based on the fact that there are blocked seats that ONLY the gate agent has control over on the day of departure, which they can use to reaccommodate passengers in circumstances just like these. The weight behind your argument that we're all full of bologna is because you had a bad experience with one or two agents. With a company with over 50,000 employees, they can't possibly all be bad as you would have us believe. I'd like to think I'm an example of one that is not!

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

You, Justme and The Judge have all argued that the passenger should be simply reassured "not to worry, it will be handled at the gate". Not once has this been guaranteed.

I will say this.....if I was the gate supervisor or ticket ctr supervisor upon her check-in, I would GUARANTEE she sat side by side with her 4-year old child even if it meant upgrading someone to a higher class or even "bribing" them with vouchers or drink chits. Again, this is one of the simplest fixes and I wish this was the biggest problem out there cuz it's easy. For those of you arguing amongst yourselves, read my posts instead of thinking what you can write to defend yourself against a post not agreeing with yours.

[justme]

Good news, this entire argument can stop. It appears as though they do indeed have seats together. Looks like Delta did right by you and the passengers after all Jim.

[wkharris2001]

Originally Posted by justme

Good news, this entire argument can stop. It appears as though they do indeed have seats together. Looks like Delta did right by you and the passengers after all Jim.

not only are they together, they may or may not have been that way for quite some time now, Perhaps even before this post was created on this forum. who knows? I certainly cannot say one way or another. but it looks like they won't have any problems on their upcoming trip.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by justme

Good news, this entire argument can stop. It appears as though they do indeed have seats together. Looks like Delta did right by you and the passengers after all Jim.

Originally Posted by wkharris2001

not only are they together, they may or may not have been that way for quite some time now, Perhaps even before this post was created on this forum. who knows? I certainly cannot say one way or another. but it looks like they won't have any problems on their upcoming trip.

Where are you getting your information from? I'm guessing private messages with the OP but please explain as in this thread, the passenger hasn't posted since 1.06pm on the 17th and didn't mention the problem was solved.

[jimworcs]

Troy, the passengers gave their full names and the two people who posted worked for Delta, so I am putting 2+2 together.

I am pleased that Delta has done the right thing, but it is a shame that they didn't do the right thing first time. Making people go through these hoops for something as basic as the reassurance that you can sit next to your 4 year old on a long haul international flight is ridiculous.

But now... I have a question. How did Delta solve this problem? If Justme or wkharris had anything to do with it, that will be the first time I have been impressed by a Delta employee in over a decade. If an employee has pro-actively taken action to resolve an issue that was raised on a complaints board, I will take my hat off to them, even if they work for Delta. (And without wishing to be churlish, I would like to know how it was achieved, if the OP was repeatedly told it was impossible to fix except at the airport). Did Justme or wkharris do the impossible? If so, thank you and kudos to you... I am finally impressed.

[justme]

Troy, and Jim... as bummed as I am that I cannot take credit, it was not me that did the impossible. I am not directly involved with ticketing/gate handling so I wouldn't have known how to do it in the first place. I did however have some colleagues see what they could find out about the passengers and their seating arrangements for me, and I know wkharris did the same on his end independently from myself and came to the same conclusion shortly before my help did. We found out that they in fact did have seats together. I too am glad that someone was able to pull off the impossible, I wish I knew how they did it so I could do it for people in the future. From the people I talked to that do/have done ticketing, apparently it's not too difficult though. Makes me wonder what the reasoning was for not changing them the first time they called. I'm going to do some following up with reservations to see what I can find out. Maybe what happened was that they DID change them, but didn't explain it very well and the OP thought they had not been changed. Who knows, like I said, I'm just glad it got resolved.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by justme

I too am glad that someone was able to pull off the impossible, I wish I knew how they did it so I could do it for people in the future. From the people I talked to that do/have done ticketing, apparently it's not too difficult though.

This is what I've been trying to say for the whole thread and have been ignored with childish bickering. This is far from impossible and as I stated a couple different times is one of the easiest fixes there are. Also, for those DL employees here, if you don't know how to do it, maybe have one of your sources check to see when the change was made. Any entries made into to a reservation that require the agent to add or change something get timestamped. It is easily possible to see when this was done.

[PHXFlyer]

There were probably cancellations which freed up some seats. It happens all the time. When the post first appeard I looked at a seat map of this flight on Delta.com and indeed at the time the only seats available were mostly middle seats scattered about the economy cabin. There were 2 business class seats available side-by-side. Perhaps the OP was given an upgrade? Squeaky wheel...

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Phx.. that is a very long post, to not produce any evidence to support your assertion!

Read it again when you're not just coming from the pub!

[wkharris2001]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

This is what I've been trying to say for the whole thread and have been ignored with childish bickering. This is far from impossible and as I stated a couple different times is one of the easiest fixes there are. Also, for those DL employees here, if you don't know how to do it, maybe have one of your sources check to see when the change was made. Any entries made into to a reservation that require the agent to add or change something get timestamped. It is easily possible to see when this was done.

the judge, without giving out any specific passenger information. as of the date of the OP's post. the OP really did not have a legitimate complaint about their seating not being together.

[jimworcs]

wkharris, unless you are suggesting that the Fuhrmanns were given seats next to each other, and decided to make up a complaint for the fun of it, clearly they had a "legitimate" complaint. It may be that action had been taken to put them next to each other, but even if that was the case, it was not communicated. Either that or the Fuhrmanns are bonkers.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

Are my posts invisible? Maybe everyone has me on ignore.

You're right, Troy. We all had a meeting behind your back and decided to ignore you so you are now invisible to everyone here!

Originally Posted by jimworcs

wkharris, unless you are suggesting that the Fuhrmanns were given seats next to each other, and decided to make up a complaint for the fun of it, clearly they had a "legitimate" complaint. It may be that action had been taken to put them next to each other, but even if that was the case, it was not communicated. Either that or the Fuhrmanns are bonkers.

Maybe Delta just got sick and tired of all of their phone calls and decided to appease them.

[jimworcs]

Yeah, well that would be the Delta way. You have to fight for basic service to get them to "appease" you.

[Max Fuhrmann]

To The Judge - and everyone here. Thank you for taking on my isssue (am logged in as my husband at present). I haven't posted anything since 17 Nov because I simply did not want to get any more anxious. I had resolved to take my chances on the day as advised by a number of you in your posts.

I still haven't had any confirmation about my seats - so some of you obviously know more than I do so I will be there as early as I possibly can to hopefully be able to sit with my daughter.

To all those that think I was ranting and raving at the customer service officers - I can assure you I was not. I simply explained my situation (several times) and when I asked if they could at least offer assurance that the "normal" practice was to seat parents next to their young children - I was shouted at "I AM JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU". I understand that they were which I told them, but I really did not raise my voice or anything - after all, shouting never gets us anywhere, as this example clearly shows (as indeed I do have extensive customer service experience, having managed such a function for a national company myself).

I simply object to being treated like a person demanding the unthinkable. I did try and resolve this issue with Expedia, but they really did not want to know and kept referring me back to Delta, who obviously have the "power" to assign the final seating arrangements for all passengers.

When I posted that I could assure you the trip would be not very nice for the other passengers if my daughter and I were not sitting together, I did not mean this as a threat (as I would never displace anyone on a long trip on purpose), however, I was stating the obvious as my daughter would have been upset, possibly crying (for a long time) which inconveniences other passengers. I thought that was obvious from comment, but clearly not.

The other legs of the journey, as indeed we are travelling on to Altanta, had been adjusted when I first made contact with Delta which was great, but the first trip from Sydney to LA was the one that caused this issue. And I do believe I had grounds for complaint as all I sought was reassurance which was not given. The only thing that I was told was "we cannot guarantee you anything".

So thank you everyone for your valuable input, I am amazed at how many people are willing to assist/comment/put matters into perspective.

And to Phxflyer - I made a few phone calls to Delta, but not enough for them to get sick of me to "appease" me, nice attitude. You are not the only one that has a "right" to opinion.

To wkharris - I would thank you not to badmouth me in public! At the time of the first post - I did have grounds for complaint as I had no reassurance from the people I had spoken to at Delta - I STILL DON'T. You might know something about my flights, but I have not idea what is going to happen tomorrow!

Anyway, will let you know what happens

Miriam Fuhrmann

[jimworcs]

So there we have it...

wkharris.. will you apologise for your insinuations?

For a minute there I thought I detected some possible improvement in Delta's attitude to their customers.. but turns out, Delta does what it does best.. treats the customer like crap.

[wkharris2001]

as i said before jim, the passengers have seats next to each other, as of the date of the original post, the seats were together. I have not bad mouthed anyone. do they have a complaint about the way they were treated over the phone, yes. nobody should be yelled at when they call on the phone. I can apologize on behalf of the company for that.

however, as u may read in my previous post i said "the OP really did not have a legitimate complaint about their seating not being together." so the seats not being together is a non issue, and that is what I have stated.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by wkharris2001

as i said before jim, the passengers have seats next to each other, as of the date of the original post, the seats were together. I have not bad mouthed anyone. do they have a complaint about the way they were treated over the phone, yes. nobody should be yelled at when they call on the phone. I can apologize on behalf of the company for that.

however, as u may read in my previous post i said "the OP really did not have a legitimate complaint about their seating not being together." so the seats not being together is a non issue, and that is what I have stated.

OMG I think I just figured this out! I realize, wkharris, that you can only divulge so much, however did it have anything to do with how the seats are lettered on the 777LR? If you go to SeatGuru.com you'll see that Delta doesn't use the letter "I" as a seat designator in the eceonomy cabin. For most of the p[lane the layout is

A-B-C [aisle] D-E-F [aisle] G-H-K

and in the last two rows

A-C [aisle] D-E-F [aisle] G-J.

I'll bet they either had two seats on the right side of the plane (H-K) or two seats in the last two rows where the letters are non-sequential and thought they weren't together.

wkharris - just gimme a "wink" if I'm close. Thanks.

[wkharris2001]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

wkharris - just gimme a "wink" if I'm close. Thanks.

you're right, that IS the configuration of the 77L. and I can see where the OP may have been confused IF they were given a seat in one of the last rows. or on the right side of the plane.

[justme]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

I realize, wkharris, that you can only divulge so much, however did it have anything to do with how the seats are lettered on the 777LR?

Two things, thanks for realizing that we are trying to avoid divulging any personal information about the passengers and second, I think you may be on to something with the seat lettering. While I do not know their specific seats, it seems like the most plausible scenario. Another thing, one reason wkharris is suggesting that the complaint may not have solid ground to stand on, is because there is a date/timestamped entry from BEFORE the complaint was written that has them sitting next to each other. That date has not been given out, again, to avoid saying too much. I look forward to hearing back from the OP about how the trip turned out.

[PHXFlyer]

Thanks for the confirmation. So now I'm wondering why they spoke to several agents and a supervisor or two who all didn't realize that they were indeed seated side-by-side and explained the non-sequential lettering of the seats. When someone calls Delta from Australia are they routed to the US or handled by one of the offshore call centers in South Africa or Jamaica?