[mars6423]

phx.....it is clear that chrisal (and his gf) are not experienced flyers, they dont know the ins and outs of the crazy airline and documentation industry....as chris said before his gf has never been out of the country.....you really cant expect nonfrequent flyers to look for info that they are told that isnt needed, delta told them the wrong info and the majority of people (esp new to flying) would follow that and not question it....he took the initiative and asked, recieved the wrong info and did what others would do-take it as truth since you would expect that the airlines would know that sort of info

could he have looked? yes did he believe he needed to? no because the info given to him did he know where to look? mayb does he know what to do next time? hopefully did delta mess up? big time

[jimworcs]

Phx,
I think it is YOU who is not getting it. The airline had a simple solution... do not give this information to the customer when asked. Point them to the appropriate website or consulate. To suggest that every transaction we have with a business has to be independently verified is ridiculous. Commerce would come to a grinding halt if every time we undertook a transaction we had to independently verify everything they told us is true. If a company sells you a service or product, you should be able to rely on what they tell you relating to your use of that product or service. In this case, the passenger specifically asked the airline if a visa was required.

Your criticism would be valid if the passenger had not asked and was blaming the airline for not letting them know. What makes this different is the customer asked the airline if a visa was required to use their service. They were told no. This misrepresented the situation and is not the customers fault.

To call something a lie does not automatically imply intent; but he is angry at having his whole christmas plans destroyed by the error of the airline and their failure to properly resolve the problem. Your determination to poke a stick at the victim is sad.

[chrisal]

Thank you very much Mars and Jim for understanding the whole point of this story. It is simple enough and I'm sure that you PHX, fully understand the point too.

What I find extremely sad is that you, PHX, refuse to acknowledge the situation from the point of view of an inexperienced flyer, as I have asked you to do time and again. Look at the posts recently written by Mars and Jim. They have hit the nail on the head. If you had the willing to do the same you would see it as well.

You just can't take it that Delta have admitted they were in the wrong. And you can't take it that they are going to give me my money back. I know Delta are to blame, Jim and Mars know Delta are to blame, even Delta have admitted Delta are to blame.

The only person that won't admit it is you. This makes you not only small minded but extremely very very sad!

[PHXFlyer]

Had you actually read the the part of your response I quoted you would have realized that my comment pertained to your insistance that when you initially called to arrange travel the Delta agent lied to you. As I said before a lie is an intentional means of deception. I highly douibt the agent lied to you for the purpose of causing you all of this grief and trouble.

your comment about me being "small minded" was not appreciated either and has been reported.

@114 replies I believe this is the longest thread to date. I'd have to recount disregarding the post that should have been deleted and the multiple back-to-back posts by the OP. After those are taken into account it would proably be under 100.

[chrisal]

Had you actually read the the part of your response I quoted you would have realized that my comment pertained to your insistance that when you initially called to arrange travel the Delta agent lied to you. As I said before a lie is an intentional means of deception. I highly douibt the agent lied to you for the purpose of causing you all of this grief and trouble. - PHX quote

Damn right I'll see this as a learning experience. I'll never believe another word these lying bastards from the airlines ever tell me again! - my original quote

After all I had written in the previous message, asking for you to see things from an inexperienced passengers perspective, you ignored my request and simply responded by sending me this message containing my quote and saying "Still not getting it. Sad."

So instead of doing anything that I had suggested, you know want to create a side arguement on the definition of what a lie is. It has little relevance to my story. If you want to clutch at straws perhaps Delta didn't actually lie to me. My girlfriend asked what she would need to travel and was given incorrect information. But it was hardly the truth either, and Delta have admitted they were at fault. So if you want to clutch at straws this may not strictly be a lie, why don't we call it NEGLIGENT INFORMATION WITH CATASTROPHIC CONSEQUENSES?

But if you had cared to take in anything else that has happened to me since perhaps you would understand why I feel they are liars. For example -
1. when the manager told me to call the customer care number and when I did I found out it was a reservations number and there wasn't an actual customer care number that I could call.
2. when I tried to ring another customer care number they gave me telling me it was freephone and finding out it was a US number, therefore making it impossible for me to call
3. when the manager gave me his own personal number to call which I have tried on several occasions and each time the phone has gone dead without anyone answering it.
4. when the manager initially promised to help me find an earlier flight on a higher tariff it it meant I could get home sooner, I found out that this had been lies because when I went to the office to ask them to help me with this they refused and said that the manager hadn't actually authorised this even though he had shook my hand and given me his word
5. when the manager promised there would not be a charge for changing my ticket, I found this to be lies as the girl in the office said that I would have to pay 100 pounds to choose it. When I questioned this she said the manager had never authorised this. More lies.

If you really want to know PHX, my reference to never believing another word that those lying bastards tell me was in association with not only the original bad info they gave my girlfriend but also all of the lies that has followed. Do YOU still not get it?

And instead of looking at the point of my arguement, all you can do is to continue to poke stupid little jibes that serve no purpose to this arguement. So yes I fully stand by my earlier remarks about you being smallminded and extremely very very sad, but now I would probably call you ridiculous as well because this is how you are starting to look.

Report me all you like. However, you will find that it was you who called me sad first, making your complaint a little sad if you don't mind me saying!

[jimworcs]

Phx:
The issue of whether Chrisal was correct in using the word lie is a sideshow: if we want to get pedantic, one of the dictionary definitions is

to express what is false; convey a false impression

Under this definition, intent is not required. However, irrespective of the intent in the initial call, the subsequent dealings with Delta have been less than honest too.

This is one of those situations in which you are defending something which even the airline didn't try to defend. Furthermore, it appears that mars and I are agreeing... a rare occurance!

Maybe, just maybe, you have got this one wrong? Is it possible?

Welcome back anyway Phx, and good luck with the stand up on Wednesday.

[The_Judge]

Can't this be taken to private messages? It was interesting in the beginning but it's getting tiresome seeing petty bickering. OP had a complaint, caught some flack from posters here, got some advice and then got a refund if he desired. Case closed. Next......

[jimworcs]

Troy,
We are miles past that.. .it is about Phx admitting he got it wrong!! It is a test to see if he has an ounce of himility!! That is why there are so many posts...

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Troy,
We are miles past that.. .it is about Phx admitting he got it wrong!! It is a test to see if he has an ounce of himility!! That is why there are so many posts...

Might I remind everyone of my initial post on this thread? Perhaps it was forgotten:

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

Should the call center agent have been aware if this? Absolutely. Should the OP have also been aware of this? Absolutely.

[jimworcs]

Should the OP have also been aware of this? Absolutely

Exactly!! ~ That is the bit that is wrong...the OP, someone who has never flown before, booked over the phone with airline. They asked the airline if a visa was needed for the service being provided and the airline said no. Why should the OP have been aware of this? They had never dealt with an airline before, bought an air ticket before or travelled abroad before.

The airline had the option to say " it is your responsibility to check on visa's" but they chose instead to offer advice. In the event the advice was wrong.

The airline has now admitted this was wrong. They have acknowledged this by giving a full refund and by apologising for the mis-information.

The question now is, can you do the same thing? Or are you so rigid and inflexible that you cannot conceive of a situation in which you have misjudged a situation and should admit that you called this one WRONG.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Exactly!! ~ That is the bit that is wrong...the OP, someone who has never flown before, booked over the phone with airline. They asked the airline if a visa was needed for the service being provided and the airline said no. Why should the OP have been aware of this? They had never dealt with an airline before, bought an air ticket before or travelled abroad before.

The airline had the option to say " it is your responsibility to check on visa's" but they chose instead to offer advice. In the event the advice was wrong.

The airline has now admitted this was wrong. They have acknowledged this by giving a full refund and by apologising for the mis-information.

The question now is, can you do the same thing? Or are you so rigid and inflexible that you cannot conceive of a situation in which you have misjudged a situation and should admit that you called this one WRONG.

I still feel that it is the traveler's responsibility to research (not just take the word of a telephone ticketing agent that probably works for a 3rd party call centre in Manila) through proper government channels what is required of them in the way of passports, visas, inoculations, etc. for their given itinerary. The fact that a traveler is young or inexperienced doesn't excuse them. I have already said that most of the blame lies with the airline due to one of their representatives giving out, without malice or ill intent, wrong information.

Anyway this thread should have been shut down and the OPs posts deleted when he assailed me with expletives and threats of injury. That's all I'm going to say at this time. If you don't like it then so be it. We haven't always agreed and this will just be one of those times. No hard feelings.

[Silent Bob]

I'm in agreeance with PHX on this one. Though the airlines did say to the OP's g/f that they didn't need a visa, It was mentioned before by JR Orlando that maybe there was a communication error in how the OP's g/f might have asked about the visa, which would make sense in the answer she got. It's always been my belief since my brazil incident that we as passengers should look into our own travel requirements, nor does it hurt to check multiple sources rather than just accept one source. Did Delta make a mistake? Not exactly, but then again we don't know exactly what was asked nor do we know exactly what was said because this is from a 3rd person. He may have bought the ticket, but didn't do much to help research the visa.

But a refund was given and all is right with the world.

[chrisal]

Thank you very much Mars and Jim for understanding the whole point of this story. It is simple enough and I'm sure that you PHX, fully understand the point too.

What I find extremely sad is that you, PHX, refuse to acknowledge the situation from the point of view of an inexperienced flyer, as I have asked you to do time and again. Look at the posts recently written by Mars and Jim. They have hit the nail on the head. If you had the willing to do the same you would see it as well.

You just can't take it that Delta have admitted they were in the wrong. And you can't take it that they are going to give me my money back. I know Delta are to blame, Jim and Mars know Delta are to blame, even Delta have admitted Delta are to blame.

The only person that won't admit it is you. This makes you not only small minded but extremely very very sad! Earlier quote from myself

Read this one again PHX. You just can't stand the fact that I'm right and you are wrong. And what really gets to you is that Delta are giving me my money back. You can argue the toss all you want now mate, but fact is I have won! FACT! Delta have even admitted they were at fault. What makes you even more pathetic then I thought you were is that you can't admit it. Throughout this story I have asked you time and time again to see this from the position of a girl who has zero experience with flying, to take on board all the information that I have given you, and to think to yourself, what you would do in that position. Mars answered this one brilliantly in post 111 I think it was.

But all you continue doing is picking up on silly little side issues to distract from the issue in hand. This thread could easily have finished a long time ago if it wasn't for your inability to look at this from another person's perspective. I'm sure you aren't really a stupid person, I think you are just getting off on this, laughing at the misfortune of others. It certainly worked in the beginning as I'm sure you know. But we have come full circle now mate! Delta have even admitted they were wrong, they say they should have provided me with the correct info. You can go on saying, that is as maybe, but you should have checked the website anyway, but by saying that are you really putting yourself in my gf's shoes. I mean why would she even check if this visa was required for the US, when she didn't even know it existed? She did all the relevant checks for the UK as this is the country she would be staying. Someone who has never left her own country before would never dream of doing this unless Delta had simply said "Not our job miss, find out for yourself."
I really cannot put it any differently for you to understand PHX, but until the day comes when you do want to open your eyes up to what happened, I'm afraid circles is all we will be going round in. Jim can see this and so can Mars and so can any person who I have told this story to. For the love of God, even Delta saw what they did wrong and apologised with the refund.
You don't have a leg to stand on and you never did. You have purposefully refused to comment on what you would have done had you actually put yourself in the shoes of a girl who has never flown before and wasn't guided to the info required. If you actually did this we might actually get somewhere. Until you do though, you continue to show yourself up as this extremely sad and twisted smallminded individual.
But I think we all know what this is really about though don't we?

Anyway this thread should have been shut down and the OPs posts deleted when he assailed me with expletives and threats of injury -PHX

What this really bolis down to is that you are still crying over those comments I made about you when you started to stick the boot in at my expense. You were so upset you even started a poll about it, which I found most amusing! Unfortunately instead of learning from it, all you have used my thread for is to continue to stick the boot in with your spiteful little digs. The fact that you continue to purposefully miss the point of all of this is further testimony, that you are using this thread to wind me up.
However, your silly little juvenile plan has severely backfired because I have actually done what I'm sure you never thought I would be able to do, and that is to get Delta to admit they were wrong, and not only that, but I have got a full refund. This must really stick in your throat, mustn't it PHX? Case closed!

[chrisal]

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

I'm in agreeance with PHX on this one. Though the airlines did say to the OP's g/f that they didn't need a visa, It was mentioned before by JR Orlando that maybe there was a communication error in how the OP's g/f might have asked about the visa, which would make sense in the answer she got. It's always been my belief since my brazil incident that we as passengers should look into our own travel requirements, nor does it hurt to check multiple sources rather than just accept one source. Did Delta make a mistake? Not exactly, but then again we don't know exactly what was asked nor do we know exactly what was said because this is from a 3rd person. He may have bought the ticket, but didn't do much to help research the visa.

But a refund was given and all is right with the world.

From reading this I can only imagine two possible explanations; either you have been smoking too much of that strong marijuana this morning and your brain has turned to mush, or that you are sleeping with PHX. I would probably guess a bit of both to be fair!

I find it quite incredible that after all this time you can just sit there and write "Did Delta make a mistake, not exactly"????!!!!!!

EH??????? You want to leave the whisky alone too mate! So my girlfriend asks what she needed to travel and she received the response, "passport and return ticket". No mention of a visa here. Now roll forward to the 5th of December and my gf is told she cannot board a plane because she doesn't have a transit visa. Now I ask you again, DID DELTA MAKE A MISTAKE? Even PHX admits that Delta have made a mistake here, that's why I think you should be laying off the weed and whisky for a while.

No I think the purpose of your message is to brand me a liar. Yes JR did touch on this, and yes I supplied the info that he requested. You can go back to the post and read it again if you wish.

we don't know exactly what was asked nor do we know exactly what was said because this is from a 3rd person - BOB

So what Bob is implying here is that there is no proof as to what actually took place and therefore all that I have said can just be discredited as a heap of bull****. So if that is the case why don't we shut down this site as there is no proof as to what any of the other hapless passengers are saying either. Perhaps they are lying through their front teeth too eh Bob?

The likes of you and PHX really are pathetic. To try and discredit my story at this late point of the day Bob, by saying that it is a bunch of lies, is as cheap a trick as some of your boyfriend's. I told you exactly what was said. If you choose not to believe it that is fine but you are wasting your time on a site like this as ikt is full of people writing their experiences. There is not one shred of evidence that anything actually happened. The two of you deserve eachother. You just cannot take it that I have won this one hands down. And your persistence to continue with your jibes is actually very sad to me as I didn't know people like you existed. However, I have never spent so much time on the internet before, so now I know!

Why don't you and PHX do yourselves a favour eh? Take a look in the mirror and say to yourselves, "Chrisal is right, we are wrong, Delta are giving him a full refund, all of these cheap tricks we are pulling out the bag aren't working, we've lost". Then you can get on with your lives!

Why don't you use that in your stand-up PHX? You'll have them rolling around on the floor!!!!!! Hilarious!!!

[Silent Bob]

as there is no proof as to what any of the other hapless passengers are saying either. Perhaps they are lying through their front teeth too eh Bob?

I wouldn't say lying through their teeth, more like exxagerating their situation to get sympathy.... much like what you're doing? It's cool that you're getting a victory, but there is no admission of guilt by Delta. And the only way you can really count this as a victory is if you got everything you demanded and i don't see that happening.

I find it quite incredible that after all this time you can just sit there and write "Did Delta make a mistake, not exactly"????!!!!!!

I don't find it incredible, they didn't make a mistake. I still say it was communication and I'm stickin to it.

Oh and as for the smoking marijuanna? Sorry Bob doesn't play with that and I'm dunno how PHX looks, probably a handsome man, but I'm all about the ladies their Chris. Whiskey and women are my two biggest vices and only on the weekends *wink*

The likes of you and PHX really are pathetic. To try and discredit my story at this late point of the day Bob, by saying that it is a bunch of lies, is as cheap a trick as some of your boyfriend's.

No one called you a liar... is this some kind of admission on YOUR part? hehehehe

Why don't you and PHX do yourselves a favour eh? Take a look in the mirror and say to yourselves, "Chrisal is right, we are wrong, Delta are giving him a full refund,

No way! I heard if you say your name in a mirror, the ghost of O.J. Simpson will come out to get you... and he's not dead so what does that say about that? lol

[chrisal]

I find it quite incredible that after all this time you can just sit there and write "Did Delta make a mistake, not exactly"????!!!!!!
I don't find it incredible, they didn't make a mistake. I still say it was communication and I'm stickin to it. - Bob

So Bob what you are saying here is that Delta did not make a mistake because you think that my girlfriend did not ask the correct question? And if you do believe this then you do not believe I am telling the truth because my story quite clearly states that my girlfriend asked specifically for the journey from BA to Manchester via Atlanta. Therefore you are calling me a liar because you do not believe what I am telling you happened.

The likes of you and PHX really are pathetic. To try and discredit my story at this late point of the day Bob, by saying that it is a bunch of lies, is as cheap a trick as some of your boyfriend's.
No one called you a liar... is this some kind of admission on YOUR part? hehehehe - Bob

So you aren't calling me a liar now? But you don't believe that my girlfriend asked a specific question to Delta which I have stated in my story. Come on Bob, how can you say that you aren't calling me a liar when you don't think my girlfriend really said what she did?

It is ridiculous. So are you trying to say that I am not a liar, but it is just my story that is lies. It appears that the only way you can still pin the blame on me is to say that my story is a lie and that my girlfriend didn't ask what I said she did. Truly pathetic mate! You stick to the internet mate because you haven't got a chance in the real world!!!

I truly question the purpose of this website if you can come on here and simply say, no I don't believe you, that's not what happened! No this is what happened! What is the point of having a complaint website when idiots come on and say that they don't believe me. This could be the basis of any arguement, changing parts of the story to fit your individual fantasy thus discrediting the passenger.

What is the point of a site like this if you can simply turn round and say, no sorry mate, you are lying, your girlfriend didn't say that, she said this instead. You stick to your story pal, and I'll stick to mine. Your arguement (branding me a liar) is a joke Bob, just like you.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by chrisal

What I find extremely sad is that you, PHX, refuse to acknowledge the situation from the point of view of an inexperienced flyer, as I have asked you to do time and again. Look at the posts recently written by Mars and Jim. They have hit the nail on the head. If you had the willing to do the same you would see it as well.

I most certainly can see this "from the point of view of an inexperienced" (and may I be so bold to add immature) "flyer," [sic] (just to let you know "flier" is one who flies while "flyer" is a piece of paper, a tract, or pamphlet) and I realize that due to that inexperience and immaturity you are trying to blame everyone and everything but yourself when you know there was a possibility to have avoided the whole situation had you taken the time to simply do some research or even ask someone who has traveled to or through the United States recently what is required rather than take the word of an outsourced call centre agent making the equivalent of around $2 USD per hour. (Yes, I realize that was a terrible run-on sentence but it was done so for effect. The whole "blue in the face" thing because I feel this OP has probably had many lectures from his mum 'till she's "blue in the face.")

Originally Posted by chrisal

You just can't take it that Delta have admitted they were in the wrong. And you can't take it that they are going to give me my money back.

Originally Posted by chrisal

Read this one again PHX. You just can't stand the fact that I'm right and you are wrong. And what really gets to you is that Delta are giving me my money back. You can argue the toss all you want now mate, but fact is I have won! FACT! Delta have even admitted they were at fault.

You keep equating the fact that Delta refunded your ticket as proof of admission of wrong-doing. Guess what? I've had two non-refundable Delta tickets refunded before. Want to know why? Because I was persistent and I think they just wanted me to "go away" rather than have to deal with the issue (and me) again. Notice I used the word persistent here. Never rude, never raised my voice and never made any sort of threat, not even to "never fly Delta again" and always treated every employee with respect, dignity and approached it from a "what can you do for me" perspective and not making specific demands that "you do this or else..." Even though in both situations I was partly to blame I was able to convince at least one Delta employee that the company was at least partly to blame as well and the resolution in both cases was a refund.

Originally Posted by chrisal

But all you continue doing is picking up on silly little side issues to distract from the issue in hand.

I think I can state, without any argument from you or anyone else, that you are guilty of the same. So as I'm guilty of picking out what may seem to you like minutiae and building a discussion around it I will jump to this:

Originally Posted by chrisal

I mean why would she even check if this visa was required for the US, when she didn't even know it existed? She did all the relevant checks for the UK as this is the country she would be staying. Someone who has never left her own country before would never dream of doing this unless Delta had simply said "Not our job miss, find out for yourself."

There you said it yourself. She did not even know (the requirement of a visa) existed. She, and by proxy you, did nothing to inform yourselves of the full requirements with respect to travel documents for her journey. You may have asked the $2 per hour agent what the visa requirements for entering the UK were (an for an Argentinian national whose sole purpose is visitation/tourism there is no advance visa requirement) and got an answer however as a UK citizen you may have already been familiar with that part of the equation. BOTH of you (the Delta agent and you and/or your GF) failed to ask what if anything was necessary for her transit. You both, I believe, assumed that since she wasn't actually entering the United States that a visa wasn't necessary. Unfortunately when you found out this was wrong it was too late to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by chrisal

I really cannot put it any differently for you to understand PHX, but until the day comes when you do want to open your eyes up to what happened, I'm afraid circles is all we will be going round in. Jim can see this and so can Mars and so can any person who I have told this story to. For the love of God, even Delta saw what they did wrong and apologised with the refund.

Well of course they are going to see things your way because you are not telling the story to a completely dis-involved anonymous third party. Do you really think your friends, acquaintances and family are not going to side with you against the evil Delta Airlines?

And, once again, you are equating the refund of the ticket with an apology. You just simply can't make that jump. All they apologized for was that an agent who is not even on their payroll possibly gave you incomplete information. There was no absolute admission of guilt or liability. Companies apologize all the time even when they know they are right and the customer is wrong. It's called customer service and although it is a bit lacking at Delta they still get it right more often than not.

Originally Posted by chrisal

You don't have a leg to stand on and you never did.

So now I realize why you referred to me as a "paraplegic." Suddenly that post now makes sense!

Originally Posted by chrisal

You have purposefully refused to comment on what you would have done had you actually put yourself in the shoes of a girl who has never flown before and wasn't guided to the info required. If you actually did this we might actually get somewhere.

If I was a young inexperienced traveler I would have sought out the advice of someone more experienced in international travel and asked them if what was told to me by the $2 per hour outsourced agent was really all I needed to travel to the UK via the USA. Of course when IO was her age the "internet" as we know it today was in it's infancy but if I were that age now I would have done at least a little research on my own. But then again I've always been one to question things and make sure, especially on the occasion of such an important trip, that I had "crossed all of the 'T's and dotted the 'I's."

Originally Posted by chrisal

What this really bolis down to is that you are still crying over those comments I made about you when you started to stick the boot in at my expense. You were so upset you even started a poll about it, which I found most amusing!

Not a single tear was shed. And I find it interesting that you felt that thread I started with the poll was all about you. You may have been the catalyst however it most certainly was not about you and I suggest you re-read it. Yet another glaring indication of your immaturity.

Originally Posted by chrisal

However, your silly little juvenile plan has severely backfired because I have actually done what I'm sure you never thought I would be able to do, and that is to get Delta to admit they were wrong, and not only that, but I have got a full refund.

This is the last time I'll say this. A refund does not equate to an admission of wrongdoing.

Originally Posted by chrisal

This must really stick in your throat, mustn't it PHX? Case closed!

Nothing sticks in my throat especially after you stabbed it with the shards of glass from that mirror you broke over my head.

Originally Posted by chrisal

Why don't you and PHX do yourselves a favour eh? Take a look in the mirror and say to yourselves, "Chrisal is right, we are wrong, Delta are giving him a full refund, all of these cheap tricks we are pulling out the bag aren't working, we've lost". Then you can get on with your lives!

"Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

Originally Posted by chrisal

Why don't you use that in your stand-up PHX? You'll have them rolling around on the floor!!!!!! Hilarious!!!

As you can tell I have no problem dealing with hecklers.

[chrisal]

There you said it yourself. She did not even know (the requirement of a visa) existed. She, and by proxy you, did nothing to inform yourselves of the full requirements with respect to travel documents for her journey. You may have asked the $2 per hour agent what the visa requirements for entering the UK were (an for an Argentinian national whose sole purpose is visitation/tourism there is no advance visa requirement) and got an answer however as a UK citizen you may have already been familiar with that part of the equation. BOTH of you (the Delta agent and you and/or your GF) failed to ask what if anything was necessary for her transit. You both, I believe, assumed that since she wasn't actually entering the United States that a visa wasn't necessary. Unfortunately when you found out this was wrong it was too late to do anything about it. PHX quote

No PHX she did not ask what the visa requirements were for entering the UK. She had just asked about a flight from BA to Manchester with a stop in Atlanta. Then she asked what she would need for the trip, ie from BA to Atlanta to Manchester. Nowhere do I suggest that she only asked what she would need to enter the UK, but there you go again twisting my words like an immature adolescent. She asked what she would specifically need for this specific trip. And yes you are right, she had no idea that she would need a transit visa to pass through the US. I had no idea either. I have transited through several countries before and I never needed a transit visa. It is not information that many people know about. Therefore, as the passenger asked specifically what she needed, is it not the call centre agent (who was from Argentina, God knows where you get Manila from, and I think 2 dollars is a bit wide of the mark) who should be informing her, or at least telling her where to find the information herself?

So if you think that by asking the relevant airline company what she would need to fly on a trip from BA to Atlanta to Manchester is and I quote, doing nothing to inform yourselves of the full requirements with respect to travel documents for her journey, then I really don't know what is. Who would you prefer her to ask, the second hand television repair man down the road? Because you are basically saying that it is a waste of time asking the airline. What is the point of having an airline call centre if they aren't going to give you reliable information.

As for your comments regarding spelling, thanks for pointing it out but this site isn't an English Language site, but again shows how you like to deflect away from the point in hand.

I came on this site for a bit of help and support, which I'm pleased to say I found through Jim (who was unbelievably helpful and gave me the email addresses of the directors of Delta), Mars, and Butch. They understand the point of this story and have no trouble in seeing things from another person's perspective. They do not see the need to try to pick apart my story like Bob and now PHX by saying things like, hmm maybe she didn't ask specifically about this or that. By saying that she probably didn't say this or ask specifically about that, what you are trying to do is say that my story is a lie, and at this late stage it is a pretty dirty trick. Do you do this with all OPs who you can't win an arguement against, start to call them liars and say that things didn't really happen?

We are never going to agree, because you think my gf shouldn't have believed the airline when she asked for specific information. Instead you think that she should have looked for some information on the internet (which no inexperienced flyer would ever dream about doing in a month of Sundays) which she had no idea even existed, because she should have naturally thought, "God I'd better check this out as I feel the airline probably didn't give me the correct information. I'm going to be flying with them so what they have probably done is just give me any old answer without even thinking about it just for a bit of a laugh." Why should she have thought this?

Clearly I am not going to shift from my way of thinking (as I feel I am 100 per cent correct), which I think is probably what a normal person would think if they were given this case to look at (I'd actually put my mortgage on it), and PHX and Bob, it is clear that you are not going to shift from your way of thinking. I don't know what your motives are. I know you are both airline sympathizers but I'm not even sure how this works as PHX by his own admission says that you can't trust the airline company that you will be flying with. And if an airline apologises and gives a customer a full refund, how come this can't be classes as a victory? What more do you want, a 5% stake in the company?

I didn't come on this site for a war, I wanted help and support, which I found. It was the other nonsense which I found unacceptable and the fact that now I am in the middle of a court case where my word is being questioned. As we are now trading insults I think it is time to stop. There is no purpose to continue this link anymore. For the past few weeks I have had nothing to do but wait, but my holiday will be starting tomorrow as I am finally flying home. Christmas is only days away, then it will be New Year and then I have the job of showing my beautiful girlfriend round my homeland. So my life will be starting again tomorrow. What I can do is leave the likes of PHX and Silent Bob to their pathetic mickey taking, squabbling, and accusations of lies. I would also like to ask the owners of this website to question the role these individuals have played in this thread, ie looking at the knife twisting, spiteful jibes, ridiculing, and now questioning my word, and asking themselves if people like this deserve to be on a website created to help and support the passenger in trouble, because in this case nothing could be further from the truth!

Thanks for the help Jim, you have been a true English gent, and the refund wouldn't have been possible without you. Thanks also to Mars and Butch for their support and thoughtful suggestions. I wish all THREE of you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Not wishing to leave the other two out, I would like to thank PHX for showing me how to spell flier. And Bob, can I thank you for calling me a liar.

Sorry one last thing I forgot to put in my last post.

As you can tell I have no problem dealing with hecklers - PHX quote

If you think they were good comebacks mate, you would get crucified if you were a stand up comedian. You really are as deluded as I thought you were. I mean "mirror mirror on the wall". It's a flipping nursery rhyme pal. Who is your audience going to be, a 5 year old's birthday party?"

I dare you to do a show in Newcastle. You would be crucified!

[Gromit801]

Isn't this horse dead yet?

[chrisal]

No but it has just been sent to the knackers yard to join PHX and Bob! I'm off to pack, farewell!

[The_Judge]

Holy Christ you bunch of whiners........shut it already! Get each others email addresses and you can say anything you want to each other. This has passed ridiculous moons ago and is reaching Guinness (not the beer but oh how I wish) proportions of annoying. And yes, I will stop reading any new posts in this thread.