[Extremerecluse]

On an international flight from Detroit to Tokyo. 747-400. I am a commercial pilot, so I am always watching the flight status. We are an hour and 30 minutes into the flight. Winds are out of the east at around 70 mph. The flight crew is fishing for the strongest winds. Usually, the winds aloft are out of the west giving a strong headwind. A frontal boundary is causing this reversal. When a crew decides to fly along a frontal boundary the turbulence can get severe. So we fly directly into severe turbulence. This is a risk the crew decided to take. During this bronco busting ride, all food went sailing. Drinks also. We experienced negative 2 Gs. This is a very quick dive. Then we went about 2.5 Gs lateral. The lead flight attendant ordered her fellow attendants to secure themselves. They were in the middle of meal service. What happens when you are in a hurry; mistakes. I could here a very loud crash up forward. Many passengers got sick. After landing, I was almost at the exit door when I could see the flight attendant telling the cleaning technician about what happened. She told him the the entire contents of one wall of the galley came crashing to the floor. The technician stated he could not clean the flood in only 1.5 hours. So a flood occurs aboard a commercial airliner and it will not be cleaned in time. But wait a minute. This incident occurred 10 hours ago. And the galley floor is still flooded. Where did all of that fluid and other food matter go. Gravity is always reliable. It went down. Down where. To the lower bulkhead in puddles. Fluid in bulkheads starts corrosion, which causes cracks, which causes parts failures. The pilot in command was one of the first crewmembers off of the plane. How in the heck did he have time to go down below and then write up what happened? He didn't!!! You see. If an incident occurs in flight, it must be reported. You then must list the cause. Known flight into severe turbulence. Poor pilot judgement. No severe turbulence then no incident. Nobody sick. No food and drink on floor. No flight attendant holding onto her crew seat in state of terror. We all make decisions. Some good and some bad. This pilot screwed up intentionally. Actually, he had taken a risk. Do I avoid that turbulence and cost the airline $25000 in fuel costs or fly straight through it and save the airline $25000. Again, we all make decisions. I remember a flight from Los Angeles to Detroit. Each and every time the Delta pilot in command hit moderate turbulence he reduced power, thus reducing the severity to the crew and passengers. As we were getting of the aircraft, the captain was their. I made a comment "those throttles work good" He was confused. I then praised him for making good decisions about safety. He thanked me. That is the kind of decisions I expect from an airline Captain. That is why he is paid the big bucks!!! Will I fly Delta again? Not in the near future.

[cliff7080]

When did this happen? I don't see any recent reports on SEVERE turbulence anywhere recently.. If they were in the middle of the meal service then you KNOW there MUST have been injuries from that type of turbulence. If the crew were standing up and you went though NEG 2g and then 2.5g BEFORE they were told to secure then there MUST have been some very severe injuries.

[Extremerecluse]

You actually think a pilot would report flight into known severe turbulence? Talk about self incrimination. Its all about money. Every extra minute in the air costs 100s. That is why passengers have this forum.

[cliff7080]

If this plane went into a negative 2g dive, with people still standing up serving dinner, then there would have been a LOT of VERY seriously injured people with People, food carts and food spread ALL over the ceiling..

Just how did you KNOW it was a negative 2g dive and a lateral 2.5g recovery? Do you really carry instruments to measure that? AND looking at the Delta Detroit/Tokyo schedule they only fly that route with a 777 and they haven't used a 747 on that route for a long time.

So how about you answer my original question? Just WHEN did this happen?

[Extremerecluse]

This is an official investigation by Delta and the FAA. Enough said!

[Extremerecluse]

I was a military pilot. I think I can speak knowledgeably about forces during flight.

[Extremerecluse]

Nagoya Japan. This is one of two airfields Foreign carriers use. The other is Narita.

[Extremerecluse]

The flight computers can zero out most of the forces so people and objects do not become projectiles. I just hope all of the crew members are honest with one another and safety was never intentionally jeopardized.

[Extremerecluse]

As an officer and military pilot, I was required by law to report any accident or incident and give a viable explanation to my superiors. If I intentionally ignored what had occurred then I could be brought under charges IAW UCMJ. That means I go to jail and I do not pass GO. I demand the same responsibility from an Airline Captain. Do I trust Delta to police themselves? NO!!!

[Burgers]

One word: hyperbole. Too many holes in this tall tale to bother to respond to.
I was a Naval Aviator but your somehow inference of "expertize" leads me to question if you've ever flown anything but a flight sim on a PC.

[cliff7080]

So its simple to answer the question.. Exactly when did this happen?

[Extremerecluse]

I wish I was making this up. The average passenger is clueless as to how to go about reporting what happened. My experience 2300 Army Rotary Wing and 200 civilian fixed wing. Rating: Commercial Instrument Rotary Wing. The incident occurred aboard Flight Delta 629 on July 21 at around 1700 Eastern Time. Type Aircraft Boeing 747-400. Takeoff 1500 Eastern. Altitude 37,000. Location US/CANADIAN BORDER, winds varying from around 090 at 60MPH TO 270 AT 50MPH. This data was taken from my seatback monitor. I wish I was making this up. My only concern is safety of flight, nothing more. The incident is under investigation by Delta Operations and the FAA.

[Burgers]

If you know this is under investigation, please share the date, and flight number.... otherwise its a bunch of childish BS.

You should want to do the public good saving us from such a dangerous flight crew by outing such individuals. Or did this all happen in your mind Walter Mitty

[Extremerecluse]

Flight 629
July 21
DTW -- NGO
1500 Departure

[Extremerecluse]

I don't know why most here are trying to sharp-shoot me. Why on earth would I make this up. My own license is on the line if what I am saying is false.

[Extremerecluse]

As a passenger, you have no say in who your crew members are. Lets put on our imagination caps. This is my main concern. Let us say that the incident goes unreported. Three years goes by. The corrosion has weakened the airframe. During takeoff, the skin separates from the frame. The stretching causes a large wiring harness to break free. During turbulence, the harness stretches until it snaps. The aircraft is at cruise altitude. The wires begin to short against the center fuel tank. Smoke begins to come through the cabin floor. The crew is notified and they initiate a descent to land at the nearest airfield in Russia on the Kamchatka Peninsula. The planes combustibles ignite. The airfield is one hour away. The crew has put out a mayday call. Your daughter and grandchild are aboard the plane. It is getting very difficult to breathe. The short has opened a hole in the fuel tank. On final approach the fuel ignites and the plane explodes in a fireball, falling 3000 feet onto the shore. All onboard are killed. During the investigation, the faulty fuselage is untouched and is determined to be the cause of the structural failure. At your daughters funeral, an old lady approaches you. She is crying and explains that her husband was the Captain of a flight on that aircraft. He failed to report an accident while inflight causing a flood which most likely damaged the fuselage. He shot himself last week and he left a note detailing how your daughters death was his fault. The 2nd officer also had taken his own life the following day. This is not real, but it could be very real. This is my concern. Kind of makes you wonder. Your daughter and her child are gone. Feel like sharp shooting me now?

[Extremerecluse]

A Certified A & P mechanic should have been the only individual who is authorized to inspect and certify that the 747-400 was safe to continue on to its destination in Manila. The Captain does not have that authority.

[cliff7080]

What a graphic story teller you are.. You should author a fictional novel... now WAIT.. this IS a fictional novel.

[Burgers]

I think the OP is funny as can be.... so I'll bite.
Just to punch a few holes in what otherwise is a bizarre story.
747-400 doesn't have a second officer. Good news, I guess he won't kill himself....
Wiring bundles are not attached to the aircraft skin.
You speak of putting your license on the line for making a false accusation....please elaborate indicating what statute/regulatory body and what specific license are we talking about.
It isn't unheard of having flight crews tell passengers with hot drinks during severe turbulence to dump the drinks in the aisle - been on such a flight.
Schooling people on international departure airports from Japan only works if you are correct. Saying there are only two neglects: HND, KIX, CTS, FUK, OKA, OKJ, HIJ, plus others.....
DL's 747 are being retired quickly and will not last beyond their next D check perhaps not even a C check so you have no fear of catastrophic corrosion.
Aircraft computers can't dampen out extreme turbulence, give your head a shake.
You may think you can bamboozle people with your claimed expertise but doing that risks someone calling you on it.... damn dude it isn't imagination cap, its tin hat with you.

[Extremerecluse]

So Mr Burger. Do you think the Captain has tried to hide this incident/accident so he wont have to explain flight into known turbulence? And was he authorized to sign off safety of flight items without having an A & P? Is the aircraft grounded until an inspection takes place?

[Extremerecluse]

What do you think Deltas operation/safety dept will do?

[Extremerecluse]

Let me know what aviation certificates/ratings you have Mr Burger.7

[Extremerecluse]

Mr Burger,

Could you tell us what aviation experience you have to include ratings and certificates?

[Extremerecluse]

Mr Burger,

What regulation governs safety of flight?

[Extremerecluse]

Mr Burger,

Google search master.