[HelpingAAImprove]

On 3/18/08, we purchased and recieved a printed confirmation for two seats, 12a & b, during July 2008, AA rescheduled the flight by 50 minutes. We recieved a notice of the reschedule from AA, but no mention of any reserved seat change. On 10/20/08, I viewed the reservation at AA online and noticed no seat reservation. I contacted AA customer service and was told that the remaining 24 seats would only be assigned at the airport, I requested a supervisor and after waiting 30 minutes was again told that nothing could be done. My request for 2 seats together for my wife and I was refused, even though the online seat map showed availbility. Any other AA customers experiencing this? This is not the professional service that we have enjoyed in the past from AA.

[airhead]

Changes of schedule are a pain for everyone and I see many go through what you went through. You are not alone. Unfortunately, seat assignments are never guaranteed but as long as they are available we do prereserve. The 24 seats you mentioned are required to be "blocked" per Department of Transportation regulations. They may be opened within 24 hours of departure. They are blocked in case someone with a disability needs the bulkhead or tries to take the emergency exit row, which is not allowed.

I recommend calling reservations immediately upon notification of a schedule change before prereservable seats are taken. If you can't get a seat then check in as early as possible within the 24 hours so that the blocked seats will be unblocked for you.

[jimworcs]

The above post is indicative of what is happening on this site. A customer complains with a totally legitimate complaint, and an airline employee seeks to "explain" totally unacceptable practice and makes suggestions as to what hoops the customer is expected to jump through in order to prevent it happening. In fact what is happening is the airlines are out of control, have lost any sense of customer service and frankly should be re-regulated.

In this case, the customer is advised to "call" immediately a flight is rescheduled, or get to the airport or contact the airline 24 hours before the flight departs, etc... But what we should really do is examine where the airline fell down and what the airline should do:

1. If the airline reschedules a flight, and people have pre-booked seats, they should transfer the bookings. I realise that this may sometimes be on a different aircraft type, but efforts should be made to put people together on the new flight, where they have been booked together previously. The reason they don't do this is because it would take an effort and the airlines have an arrogant attitude to their customers and don't care if they are inconvienced.

2. When they communicated with the customer, they failed to tell them their seat reservations had been cancelled. This would be a simple task, but again the airline reveals their contempt for the customer, and lack of care or regard for them.

3. When the customer notices the problem and contacts the airline asking for help, they are given another set of ridiculous hoops to jump through. Instead, they should have put a note into the customers reservation showing that the airline had let the customer down and when the seats are released they should be receive priority to make sure that they are "put right" and seated together, perhaps even putting a reminder note for the customer service agent to do this automatically without the customer having to contact them again.

What is sad, is the "helpful" response totally illustrates how low the airlines expectations of their staff and standards of customer service have fallen. Here we have an AA airline employee saying "unfortunately" the airline does this to many of it's customers. Really? Well maybe the airline should do something about it then. It is utterly pathetic

[jimworcs]

The above post is indicative of what is happening on this site. A customer complains with a totally legitimate complaint, and an airline employee seeks to "explain" totally unacceptable practice and makes suggestions as to what hoops the customer is expected to jump through in order to prevent it happening. In fact what needs to happen is the airlines are out of control, have lost any sense of customer service and frankly should be re-regulated.

In this case, the customer is advised to "call" immediately a flight is rescheduled, or get to the airport or contact the airline 24 hours before the flight departs, etc... But what we should really do is examine where the airline fell down and what the airline should do:

1. If the airline reschedules a flight, and people have pre-booked seats, they should transfer the bookings. I realise that this may sometimes be on a different aircraft type, but efforts should be made to put people together on the new flight, where they have been booked together previously. The reason they don't do this is because it would take an effort and the airlines have an arrogant attitude to their customers and don't care if they are inconvienced.

2. When they communicated with the customer, they failed to tell them their seat reservations had been cancelled. This would be a simple task, but again the airline reveals their contempt for the customer, and lack of care or regard for them.

3. When the customer notices the problem and contacts the airline asking for help, they are given another set of ridiculous hoops to jump through. Instead, they should have put a note into the customers reservation showing that the airline had let the customer down and when the seats are released they should be receive priority to make sure that they are "put right" and seated together, perhaps even putting a reminder note for the customer service agent to do this automatically without the customer having to contact them again.

What is sad, is the "helpful" response totally illustrates how low the airlines expectations of their staff and standards of customer service have fallen. Here we have an AA airline employee saying "unfortunately" the airline does this to many it's customers. Really? Well maybe the airline should do something about it then. It is utterly pathetic

[The_Judge]

Jim......I am understanding of your words. Believe me.......I would like to see nothing more than the airlines regulated again and have to answer to someone. However, that will not happen because of money. The big boys (and I mean the execs, not the airline itself) are making way too much money to let that happen.

I'd like to examine the 3 suggestions you proposed. The first one about giving the same seat back to the customer when an aircraft change happens. Come on now, I am the opposite of a company man (whatever the word is for that)but do you really think they do not have a fallback for this? Yes there is, at least where I worked. When an aircraft change happened the seats the customers had reserved were transferred to the new aircraft if they were identical. If not, the customer was given the same type of seat where possible. For those that had a seat reserved that could not be accommodated in the same type of seat, they were given an alternate seat. When the seat map was full (by full I mean no seats available other than those blocked for priority and disabled passengers that will open up 24 hour before departure) the rest of the passengers went on what we called a reacom list. Now I don't know how the computer chose what passengers were given priority, so don't ask.
The passenger who began this thread obviously fell into the reacom list. That list is then worked by the agents when the passengers check-in. They will give them what is left. Is it a good system? Unless the airline uses the exact same plane in every case of an aircraft change then I would say yes, this is probably the only thing that seems to work.


The next item you listed was that the airline failed to tell him his seats were cancelled. The agent has NO WAY of knowing whether a passenger has a reserved seat or not unless he physically makes a specific entry outside the norm of check-in. Can't agree with you that the airline failed here.

The last item is very similar to the first. Passengers who do have a reserved seat are given priority over others in the case of an aircraft change. The computer will look for the same or similar types of seats and insert the passenger(s) in them.

As crappy as it is and I agree it's crappy (that's why I'm a former airline employee rather than current) the situation, in my opinion, will not get better in our lifetime. We'll have to deal with what's in place or choose not to fly. Again, JMHO.

[airhead]

jimworks: I agree with you for the most part. I agree that things need drastic improvement and as long as I work for the airline I will strive to figure out ways to make improvements for the passengers and employees alike. However, my voice is ignored in the hierarchy of the corporation I work for. I am not here to defend the antics of airline operations. I don't like the way many things work and what I have to go though each day at work is very very challenging. But I enjoy a challenge which is why I stay.

I come here to make a bad situation a little better. Someone complains here, I do my best to explain why that happened. Perhaps the more people are aware and educated of this, the more of an impact it will make in the future of a much needed change in the industry. I challenge you to write your congressman about the much needed changes in a much needed industry. The airlines are one of the backbones of the economy and sooner or later they may fall and that will be a bad thing for all of us. Perhaps Reregulation of the industry is needed. Thank you for your criticism.

[Eagleguy]

You don't purchase specific seats on a plane. You purchase a spot on the aircraft.
We try our best to get you two together but when it's not possible, it's not possible.

I ONCE asked a passenger to voluntarily change his seat so that two passengers could sit together and I got the biggest eye roll ever. He was a frequent flier and I was changing him to a better seat too! I wanted to f-ing punch him.

[jimworcs]

Airhead:
Thanks for your posting... it is a relief to know that some people in the airline at least acknowledge that things are getting out of control. There is a definite need for regulation.. ... just as lack of regulation in the financial services industry led to abuse of customers by banks and ultimately to a world wide financial crisis; lack of regulation in the airline industry has also led to abuse of customers and could, potentially, lead to such cost cutting that safety is compromised.

I too would urge people to write to their congressman. I am not a US citizen, but have gone to the authorities in Europe about the abuses by Ryanair for example and it is time for customers and employees to fight back.

Eagleguy:
If you ask a passenger who is already seated to move, to enable two passengers to seat together, this is a minor inconvenience to the passenger who is already seated. Although he clearly agreed to move, he expressed his frustration at the inconvenience by rolling his eyes. This is a very minor reaction. If such a minor reaction could cause you to feel such anger that you wanted to f*****g punch him, might I suggest that you have burned out and it might be time to find another job.

[countrynewsman]

Reminds me of an incident earlier this month when my wife and I travelled from our town to Tucson via DFW. When we got to the airport, we were told the aircraft was different...it was a jet, not a Saab. Apparently AA no longer uses the Saab in favor of another prop (ATR?). I guess they were still in transition from the Saab to the ATR (high wing prop). The agent explained this at the counter and told us our seats would be different. "OK", says I. "Will we get there at the same time?". Little joke..agent got it. I asked if we could sit as far forward as possible since I hate waiting for my fellow passengers to take their time deplaning. We got good seats on the short flight, and the bulkhead from DFW to Tucson. We didn't particularly like the bulkhead seats, but I got what I asked for. Next time I'll try for the second row.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

The above post is indicative of what is happening on this site. A customer complains with a totally legitimate complaint, and an airline employee seeks to "explain" totally unacceptable practice and makes suggestions as to what hoops the customer is expected to jump through in order to prevent it happening. In fact what is happening is the airlines are out of control, have lost any sense of customer service and frankly should be re-regulated.

In this case, the customer is advised to "call" immediately a flight is rescheduled, or get to the airport or contact the airline 24 hours before the flight departs, etc... But what we should really do is examine where the airline fell down and what the airline should do:

1. If the airline reschedules a flight, and people have pre-booked seats, they should transfer the bookings. I realise that this may sometimes be on a different aircraft type, but efforts should be made to put people together on the new flight, where they have been booked together previously. The reason they don't do this is because it would take an effort and the airlines have an arrogant attitude to their customers and don't care if they are inconvienced.

2. When they communicated with the customer, they failed to tell them their seat reservations had been cancelled. This would be a simple task, but again the airline reveals their contempt for the customer, and lack of care or regard for them.

3. When the customer notices the problem and contacts the airline asking for help, they are given another set of ridiculous hoops to jump through. Instead, they should have put a note into the customers reservation showing that the airline had let the customer down and when the seats are released they should be receive priority to make sure that they are "put right" and seated together, perhaps even putting a reminder note for the customer service agent to do this automatically without the customer having to contact them again.

What is sad, is the "helpful" response totally illustrates how low the airlines expectations of their staff and standards of customer service have fallen. Here we have an AA airline employee saying "unfortunately" the airline does this to many of it's customers. Really? Well maybe the airline should do something about it then. It is utterly pathetic

Did you miss the part where he said that the Department of Transportation requires certain seats to be blocked, until 24 hrs prior tp departure. I find it funny how people who have never worked for an airline, pretent to know why the airlines do what they do. The airlines have so many regulations places on them by the DOT, and the FAA, that there is so much they "can" do, and so much they "cannot" do.

I've worked for the airlines for many years. I know how, and why things happen. You can call them excuses, but the real complaint needs to be to the DOT, not the airlines, and the DOT places the restrictions on the airlines .... whether you want to believe it, or not!

The airlines were "de-regulated", but you'd be surprised just how many "regulations" still remain.

[jimworcs]

but I fear you are not in listening mode either... which is part of what I am complaining about with airline employees. I stated quite clearly that the airline should not require their own customers to do all the running around if they cancel the flight. The airline should do it. They failed to communicate properly with the customer, failed to even tell them that their seat reservations had been cancelled. This is arrogant and disrespectful to their customer and is typified by your response. There is absolutely no DOT regulation which stops an airline communicating properly with their customer, and the way you respond using this fiction is typical. The flight was cancelled and they sent an email to the passenger telling them that their flight was rescheduled. Which regulation exactly would have prevented the airline from telling the passenger that their seat assignments had been cancelled. This simple courtesy could have potentially saved the passenger all the grief. The truth is, there is no regulation about that.. and as usual, the airline employee tries to hide behind the DOT/TSA/Uncle Tom Cobley as an excuse for pisspoor service.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

but I fear you are not in listening mode either... which is part of what I am complaining about with airline employees. I stated quite clearly that the airline should not require their own customers to do all the running around if they cancel the flight. The airline should do it. They failed to communicate properly with the customer, failed to even tell them that their seat reservations had been cancelled. This is arrogant and disrespectful to their customer and is typified by your response. There is absolutely no DOT regulation which stops an airline communicating properly with their customer, and the way you respond using this fiction is typical. The flight was cancelled and they sent an email to the passenger telling them that their flight was rescheduled. Which regulation exactly would have prevented the airline from telling the passenger that their seat assignments had been cancelled. This simple courtesy could have potentially saved the passenger all the grief. The truth is, there is no regulation about that.. and as usual, the airline employee tries to hide behind the DOT/TSA/Uncle Tom Cobley as an excuse for pisspoor service.

You are right. The airlines need a lot of work, and there are many circumstances where there is lack of communication between airline, and paying customers. I am aware of this, and certainly do not think that the airlines are perfect, by any stretch of the means. But, I have witnessed this with companies of all kinds, not just the airlines.

I missed the part where the complaint was about not being informed about their seat assignment being cancelled. I thought they were aware of this fact, and called to have the seats re-assigned, and were told that it could not be done, at that time. I am sorry if I mis-read the original complaint. I was simply backing up the fact that it is a DOT regulation that certain seats be blocked until 24-hr before departure. That is fact, not an excuse. I never said that it excused the airline from communicating with the passenger. That is unacceptable.

The airline I work for does try their best to communicate with passengers. However, you'd be surprised when looking at reservations, just how many passengers fail to provide contact information, such as a phone number, or email. I once spend a good hour at work calling people to let them know their flight was delayed, and to please come early, if possible, to get on an earlier flight, that would allow them to make their connections. Thankfully, I was able to get ahold of the majority of the flight, and they came early, and went on their way. Unfortunately, some of the flight didn't provide contact information, whether they booked their reservation online, and didn't fill out that field, or through Orbitz, or some company like that. Of course, those passengers complained, and accused us of not contacting them. How were we supposed to? Sometimes complaints are not always valid, and there are circumstances where people complain and accuse the airlines of things, without knowing the whole story, or reasons why things happen the way they do.

I can assure you the airlines do not purposely go out of their way to inconvenience customers. I think if you went to work for an airline for just one week, you'd quickly gain an understanding of why certain things happen the way they do, and that they aren't always within the control of the airline. I understand the airlines need a lot of work. I agree with that 100%. But I can't tell you the number of times I've been chewed out by passengers of things that are completely outside of my, and the airlines control, as a whole. The problem is, and I don't mean this the wrong way, but people who have never worked for an airline, and don't understand how the airlines work, and operate, and why, think they know, because it is what seems convenient to them. Next time you are in a book store, pick up a book called the FAR/AIM (Federal Air Regulations & Airmens Information Manual). It is a very thick book, of very small print that is full of the regulations that the airlines, and pilots must follow, pertaining to everything from weather, security, maintenance, and just general air regulations, just like there are traffic laws. You'd be surprised how many delays are due to things straight from that book, but people blame the airline for it.

Communication is key. I agree. There is no regulation that prevents communication with passengers. That needs work.

[jimworcs]

Chris,
I appreciate your response and acknowledgement that there was a legitimate complaint. I know that probably over 80% of my posts on here are negative about the airlines or supporting other posters who have been negative,but I am prepared to acknowledge that sometimes customers expectations are unrealistic, unreasonable or often their ire is directed at the wrong people. No airline can control the weather or the TSA or Air Traffic Control... and it is unreasonable for passengers to expect them to do so. However, if you look at this website, it provides an outlet for passengers to express their utter frustration and there is a pattern. Airlines consistently mis communicating with not communicating with passengers with reliable timely information. They are understaffed to deal with problems when they arise and many of their staff have had all discretion taken away from them to resolve the problems.

Although I have never worked for an airline, I do know a little bit from the inside. My best friend is a Captain on a European Airline which was originally a full service, but is now low cost. Prior to 9/11 I made three jump seat round trips with him to the Caribbean, Turkey and Malta so have seen what it is like "on the other side" of the counter.

Whilst I take your point about other industries who have similar customer service problems, the consequences for the customer is not the same. The airlines are dealing with people in very vulnerable circumstances. If Cablevision fail to turn up, over-charge, mislead the customers, etc.. it can be annoying, but the consequences for the customer are minor. If an airline fails a customer, passengers are often thousands of miles from home, stressed and have no immediate remedy. There is a post in the last day or so where someone was treated appallingly by Delta and ultimately forced to change airlines to get to his destination at this own expense. Delta totally abused their power and called the Police on the customer. His account is highly credible, and no one will be held to account for their conduct. He was fortunate that he had access to the funds to find another solution. Had he not, I dread to think what would have happened.

This doen't excuse passengers being abusive to airline employees, but I strongly feel that the balance of power is totally wrong and the only answer is to regulate airlines, set minimum standards of performance which are significantly higher than now, and if this results in higher fares, then so be it. Airlines, particularly US Airlines, are also protected from going bankrupt by Chapter 11, which means that airlines which provide the worst service are protected from the possible consequences of their actions. During this downturn, I would count around 15 European airlines have been allowed to goto the wall. In the US, they are politically protected, re-organise and come out the other side. Delta, United, US Air have all done this for example and it is against the interests of competition and passengers.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Chris,
I appreciate your response and acknowledgement that there was a legitimate complaint. I know that probably over 80% of my posts on here are negative about the airlines or supporting other posters who have been negative,but I am prepared to acknowledge that sometimes customers expectations are unrealistic, unreasonable or often their ire is directed at the wrong people. No airline can control the weather or the TSA or Air Traffic Control... and it is unreasonable for passengers to expect them to do so. However, if you look at this website, it provides an outlet for passengers to express their utter frustration and there is a pattern. Airlines consistently mis communicating with not communicating with passengers with reliable timely information. They are understaffed to deal with problems when they arise and many of their staff have had all discretion taken away from them to resolve the problems.

Although I have never worked for an airline, I do know a little bit from the inside. My best friend is a Captain on a European Airline which was originally a full service, but is now low cost. Prior to 9/11 I made three jump seat round trips with him to the Caribbean, Turkey and Malta so have seen what it is like "on the other side" of the counter.

Whilst I take your point about other industries who have similar customer service problems, the consequences for the customer is not the same. The airlines are dealing with people in very vulnerable circumstances. If Cablevision fail to turn up, over-charge, mislead the customers, etc.. it can be annoying, but the consequences for the customer are minor. If an airline fails a customer, passengers are often thousands of miles from home, stressed and have no immediate remedy. There is a post in the last day or so where someone was treated appallingly by Delta and ultimately forced to change airlines to get to his destination at this own expense. Delta totally abused their power and called the Police on the customer. His account is highly credible, and no one will be held to account for their conduct. He was fortunate that he had access to the funds to find another solution. Had he not, I dread to think what would have happened.

This doen't excuse passengers being abusive to airline employees, but I strongly feel that the balance of power is totally wrong and the only answer is to regulate airlines, set minimum standards of performance which are significantly higher than now, and if this results in higher fares, then so be it. Airlines, particularly US Airlines, are also protected from going bankrupt by Chapter 11, which means that airlines which provide the worst service are protected from the possible consequences of their actions. During this downturn, I would count around 15 European airlines have been allowed to goto the wall. In the US, they are politically protected, re-organise and come out the other side. Delta, United, US Air have all done this for example and it is against the interests of competition and passengers.

You are absolutely right, and I do think that the airlines, at times, abuse their power. The airlines are all about pinching the penny, and that not only has a huge effect on the customer, but also the employee. I am currently flight training, and planning to become a pilot for an airline. It is apalling, for example, how poorly the pilots of U.S. airlines are treated. They have taken, along with basically all airline employees, since 9/11, about 40-50% pay cuts. It is hard to hire people who really care, into customer service positions, when starting pay is $8.00/hr, and at some airlines, less. I think this fact is part of the huge decline in customer service, from years past, when it was considered a pleasure, and a treat to fly. When you pay fast-food wages, you get fast food service ... and usually, it isn't that great of service. The airlines have shot themselves in the foot.

Honestly, I think the anwer is going to be for regulation, again, of the airline industry, or, for people to just simply stop flying, forcing the airlines to change.

[Silent Bob]

I have to agree that there is a serious decline in customer service within the airline industry, I experience it in my travels weekly, but I persevere because it's getting to my destination and back that's more important. I don't wanna be showered with kindness, but a little courtesy goes a long way. However I believe this low level of customer service stems from passenger courtesy towards the agent, as there are those who forget that the people who check us in, or take our bags, handles our gate, and serves us our meals, are people. Just like we pay money to not be treated like garbage, the person behind the counter does not get paid to take our garbage. I fly elite status on 3 airlines and when I watch other elite members treat the agents as **** (pardon my language) well, I get upset as its uncalled for. I've seen demands placed on agents that's so disgusting, I wanna go up the person making the demands and punch em. You ever witness a person take a hotel voucher, rip it up in their faces and demand a four star? Ever see a person actually spit on an agent? You ever see a person catch a temper tantrum because he couldn't get the seat he wanted? I've witnessed this and its not pretty; I would not want to trade my position with the agents who have to deal with such situations for anything. I would like regulation as much as I want a passenger bill of rights, but the fear is that it will give to much in expectations from my fellow passengers wanting more for what they believe they deserve.

speaking of which Jim, the guy you mentioned, if you read his complaint this was a guy who demanded more of what he deserve, he even misquoted DOT rule. But this is what I mean by folks wanting more than they deserve. True he should have gotten something, but making demands up until the police were called in, well was uncalled for on his part.

[jimworcs]

There is no excuse for aggressive or obnoxious behaviour and you will see in some of my posts when I think the passengers expectations are unreasonable I will say so. I too have seen passengers blaming agents for weather delays, missed flights due to the passenger being late and making inflated claims for lost baggage.. and nothing I write should be interpreted as justifying this behaviour. Nevertheless, there is a clear pattern of poor communications by airlines and I believe that they are in a very powerful position over their customer. In a restaurant you can walk out, poor service can be addressed with supervisrs or shoddy goods taken back. In the airlines, if you complain agents have the power to make you miss your flight or make your life very uncomfortable. The ability to resolve the problem later is not available to the passenger and this power imbalance has been abused by the airlines.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

There is no excuse for aggressive or obnoxious behaviour and you will see in some of my posts when I think the passengers expectations are unreasonable I will say so. I too have seen passengers blaming agents for weather delays, missed flights due to the passenger being late and making inflated claims for lost baggage.. and nothing I write should be interpreted as justifying this behaviour. Nevertheless, there is a clear pattern of poor communications by airlines and I believe that they are in a very powerful position over their customer. In a restaurant you can walk out, poor service can be addressed with supervisrs or shoddy goods taken back. In the airlines, if you complain agents have the power to make you miss your flight or make your life very uncomfortable. The ability to resolve the problem later is not available to the passenger and this power imbalance has been abused by the airlines.

You are right. The airlines ultimately have a lot of power over their customer. They, in effect, have that person's life, in their hands, figuratively speaking, and also literally, when on the aircraft. The airlines, in many cases, forget this. I think that communication is the missing link. I think many passengers would be much more understanding of some of the inconveniences, if there was simply more communication about what is going on.

I do agree with SilentBob. There are quite a few instances in which the customer is the one who instigates the rudeness. As agents, we are not paid, nor hired to have to put up, or deal with a passenger being rude toward us. In fact, where I work, we have been instructed that if a passenger becomes rude, especially using foul language, etc., that we are to refuse further service, and refer them to the 1-800 number, while also documenting their reservation with their behavior, so that the customer service line, and other agents can see how they acted (that means good luck getting any vouchers, etc.). The airlines DO NOT cater towards unruly passengers. Many passengers would find that having a much more understanding, and kind attitude toward the agents, in person, and on the phone, they would tend to get what they want.

There is no excuse for poor behavior by agents, or passengers, and it can often go both ways.