[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Sounds like you just like to complain because you're an a-hole.

And, if you're at the airport, or on on a plane, and he says this to you---you better say:

"Why thank you sir!"

Otherwise, he'll call the cops, lie, and say you threatened him!

AAhole: This is why some of your colleagues, at AA, brag about being “Sky Nazis.”

Hopefully, the Obama Transportation Dept. will shut-down low-life organizations like your's.

Again: A customer who is physically assaultive, drunk, refuses to remain seated, or smokes in-flight, deserves whatever they get. Likewise, an airline employee who files false police reports, or calls the cops just because he/she doesn't feel like dealing with a customer, deserves whatever THEY get!

Constitutional protections are NOT suspended on airport property, or on-board an aircraft. Hence, police state rules do NOT apply on airport property, or on-board an aircraft. Until you, and your scum co-workers, get that into your pathetic brains, YOU will pose a far greater danger to this nation than any terrorist.

And, no: I have never been arrested, or even threatened with arrest. Knowing the kind of low-lifes I'm dealing with, I say, and ask for, as little as possible when I'm on airport property or on-board an aircraft. If something goes wrong, I remain quiet; make careful notes, and wait until I'm off airport property.

[Leatherboy2006]

The irresponsible statemants of "will shut-down low-life orgranizations like yours" do you realize how many honest incomes are effected by that statement, especially with unemployment rates the way there are right now. Not only the "shut down" honest employees would be out on the street needing unemployment benefits, food stamps and other benefits that our tax dollar pays for, but so would support companies that would have to layoff or go out of business. Change would be better then shut down or were going to end up with more soup kitchen then during the depression era (which thanks to W we are probably close to....Herbert Hoover can now rest in peace knowing someone did more damage to our country then he did ).
A small trickle effect from a totally unrelated industry is we have a special cargo rate with AA and UA sales for transporting human remains when burial is out of town or state. If either went out of business we would have to go to another shipper and if we can not get a lower rate would have to pass that on to the deceases family.

[ldl007]

As honest as any other human being could be; but I am not sure that these jobs (numbers) are needed. One does get tired of rude TSA, gate agents, and flight attendants. Same is true of unruly, impatient, cell phone addicted, drunk passengers.

Certified Emergency Passenger Assistants in flights might be an idea.

Quck question: How much weight do junk in the seat pocket-airline magazine, Sky mall etc add? How much money these cost the airlines?

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Leatherboy:
If American Air went belly-up the physics of the marketplace would not allow a vacuum. Don't know how old you are, but Eastern Air jumped into the South American market when Braniff (the first incarnation) went bust. Likewise, United filled the same space when Eastern collapsed. In another example, almost all of the former Pan Am routes are now operated by United or Delta.

As to cargo: You are, doubtless, aware that cargo, compared to your average coach customer, brings in, comparitively, more revenue. Passenger carrying airlines will not calmly stand by and allow UPS and Fedex to lock-up ALL the cargo action.

Meaningful government intervention will, almost certainly, force the demise of US Airways, Spirit, and possibly even American and United.

* To weed-out the misfits, cabin and gate crews should be licensed in the same sense that cockpit crews are. A badge, with the given license number, and prominently shown, would be worn, with penalties for those who fail to wear the badge, or try to hide the number.
* Minimum seat pitch of 35" for flights of 90 minutes and longer.
* Minimum seat width: 18" (most airlines, to my understanding, are already within this range)
* Children, under the age of 16, who are travelling with an adult, must be seated NEXT to said adult. No more spreading families all over the aircraft. This is a dangerous practice if an evacuation were to take place.
* Connecting times must take into account situations where the two given gates are 1+ miles apart.
* Tarmac delays: Passengers to be offered the option to safely disembark after two hours.
* Foreign control of US-based carriers PERMITTED following a review, and approval, by Transportation and Homeland Security (FBI.)

I could go on, even more. But you get the idea. As you can see, I'm not talking about chateaubriand, or in-flight manicures. With the exception of the foreign ownership, and id badges, we're, really, talking about going "back to the future"--circa 1965!

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by ldl007

Quck question: How much weight do junk in the seat pocket-airline magazine, Sky mall etc add? How much money these cost the airlines?

Junk? The airline magazine and SkyMall both generate revenue for the airline which surpasses the cost of carrying them. Why get rid of something that's profitable?

[airhead]

A box of fifty magazines is about 20lbs. Not much.

[azstar]

Skymall acutally pays airlines a fee for carrying their magazines to compensate for the additional weight.

[ChrisH]

You can't regulate all of that stuff. Requiring certain seat pitch, etc. That would never become a reality. Also, the airlines do not create connections. They happen by default. The airlines create flight schedules based on flights leaving from, and returning to a hub city. They do not create a connection specifically for you, flying from Orlando, FL, and wanting to go to Little Rock, AR. They create a flight leaving from a hub, to Orlando, then returning to hub. It is you, who had to get on that flight returning to the hub, and then catch a flight going out, from the hub, to Little Rock. Whatever time that flight happens to leave, is whatever time it happen to leave. The airlines cannot work every flight around all flights coming from all cities, just so everybody had a chance to get to Little Rock, and have a specific connection. If what I am saying makes any sense to you at all. It is hard to explain. basically, connections happen by default, based on flights flying from a hub, to a city, and back to a hub. Based on the market, some cities get more flights than others, and thus more options. This is why you may have a very short layover, or very long layover. In all, when you book airfare, you can pick and choose and get better connections. Leave on an earlier flight that gives you more time at the hub, for example.

Allowing foreign ownership of the airlines will cause what has happened in many other industries. It will allow foreign labor to come do American jobs, for less, cutting people's pay, and doing away with people's jobs. That is just what we need more of, in this country. We need foreign people owning, and running our companies, and paying their significantly less wages. That really makes a lot of sense. Just so you know, it is airline labor, not airline management, who has fought to prevent foreign ownership of the airlines, to prevent just that. To prevent what has already eroded income, and jobs in this country.

As per making children under 16 sit with parents. You need to understand. It depends on when you book your ticket. The airlines do what they can to get families, and all people under the same reservation, seated together. BUT, if you buy a ticket, when the majority of seats are already sold, that leaves limited seats open, and results on people being spread out. I'm also very surprised at the people who book tickets, for their family, but book them all under seperate reservations, and complain that the airlines didn't seat them together. And how were we supposed to know yall are family? They are all seperate reservations. I guess we should start sitting any and all people with the same last name by each other, because they may be family. LOL!! Also, unless you request reserved seating, when you book your flights (which everybody should do), the seats are assigned randomly at checkin. If you are going to be traveling as a family, book ahead of time, and get reserved seating. Booking on a last minute flight, with limited seating, results in being split apart. And no, we cannot just go in and start moving people around. That would create a major mess at boarding, when your boarding pass is being scanned, and it doesn't go through, because your seat has been changed, without you knowing, and now your boarding pass doesn't match. You really need to work for an airlines to understand why some things are the way they are. It never made sense to me, until I started working for an airline, but now it all does.

I agree something needs to be done about tarmac delays, and allowing people off.

As per making gate agents, etc., go through training like the crews. So I should go through, as the pilots, years of training to learn how to board a flight, so I can make my current $8-9/hr, what will be less than that when foreign countries are running the show. I don't think so. Believe it, or not, gate, ticket, and ramp agents already have to go through training. Not some extensive training, like flight crew, but if it gets to the point that you have to start having some license to be a gate agent, the airlines better start paying up. Because as it is, if they pay fast food wages, that is the service you will get. AND, are YOU, the passenger ready to pay the bill for all of these things? You do realize if the airlines were forced to do all of these things, it means fares are going to sky rocket, to cover the costs.

In the end, the airlines are private companies (I realize they are publicly traded, but you get the point). They can ultimately do what they want. They can charge what they want, for what service they want, or don't want. It isn't anybodies right to fly, it is a privilage. The airlines are like any other company. They set their prices, and their service, and it is a customer's choice to fly, based on that.

Don't expect anything to change. Air travel is no longer what it used to be. It is the greyhound of the sky. It is a means to get from point A to point B, not some 5 star hotel and restaurant in the sky. And, if passengers want air travel to go back to the days of luxury, maybe passengers should stop flying in tank tops, flip flops, smelling like cigarettes, and alohol. Today's typical traveler is an embarrasment in and of itself, compared to the days of old.

I am sure some people will have some nasty things to say to me, about my remarks. I don't care. I have my opinions. I just think people make a much bigger deal about all of this than they need to. The majority of the time, flights go out on time, and without a problem. When things don't go off as well, well, such is life. Sometimes things happen we don't like. Get over it. I wonder how some people stand to go through life, constantly worrying, and stressing over every little thing. I've been on delayed and cancelled flights. I've sat on an airplane for 3 hours, on the tarmac. Oh well. I didn't find it THAT BIG of a deal. But that is just me.

[jimworcs]

You can't regulate all of that stuff. Requiring certain seat pitch, etc. That would never become a reality

Wrong: it is already regulated, for example the seat pitch at the exit rows and the speed of evacuating the plane in an emergency both limit the numbers of passengers an airline can squeeze into the tube. The debate is not whether is can be regulated, but what is reasonable.

the airlines do not create connections. They happen by default.

Wrong: The whole strategy of the legacy carriers in the US has been to create "fortress hubs" which depend on connecting traffic to make them viable. Without the connections the flights would not be viable, and the airlines specifically create schedules to facilitate these transfers. For someone who works in the airline industry, you show a surprising level of ignorance about how the hub system works.

Allowing foreign ownership of the airlines will cause what has happened in many other industries. It will allow foreign labor to come do American jobs

Wrong: Foreign ownership of an American company does not confer on that company any more rights to bring in foreign labour than an American company. The immigration laws apply to all companies, regardless of their ownership.

Just so you know, it is airline labor, not airline management, who has fought to prevent foreign ownership of the airlines

Wrong: Delta and Continental have both filed objections to the proposed tie up between BA and AA for example. United also objected to the liberalisation of the airways between Europe and the US.

And no, we cannot just go in and start moving people around. That would create a major mess at boarding

Wrong: Airlines regularly do this. For example, moving people away from the exit seats where the Nazi Attendant (sorry Flight Attendant) decides they do not meet the criteria, sometimes safety reasons (sometimes for utterly incomprehensible reasons). The point ButchCassidy was making was that this is a safety issue. Children under 16 need adult help in an emergency and this should be by a parent or responsible adult. For example, there are fairly frequent incidences of rapid decompression. In this situation, the FA's are unable to assist as they must also get O2, and the parent is expected to put on their own mask first and then attend to their child. What if the child is not with the parent? Do we just hope the stranger will be motivated to do the right thing? In an evacuation, a parent is likely to block egress looking for their child... this could be highly dangerous. The airlines should be regulated, and believe me, if the FAA said so, they would miraculously find a way to resolve the problem.

You do realize if the airlines were forced to do all of these things, it means fares are going to sky rocket, to cover the costs

Wrong: There are many airlines around the world, and airports, with significantly higher standards of customer service than the US and they are not all low wage economies. Many European countries and some Asian countries have signficantly higher standards of service. The minimum wage in many European countries is higher than in the US. Besides, in case you are in doubt. I am a customer who is willing to pay more. Fares should increase, the race to the bottom is dangerous and has gone to far.

You really need to work for an airlines to understand why some things are the way they are. It never made sense to me, until I started working for an airline, but now it all does.

It is sad that you have become so jaded to normal standards of service, that the US airlines pathetic levels of service now "make sense to you". Perhaps it is time to change industries and smell the coffee.

They can charge what they want, for what service they want, or don't want.

Yeah, the financial services industry was like that too right? The lack of regulation in that industry brought about a world wide recession and is a financial disaster that will take at least a decade to recover from. Allowing the airlines to go unregulated is also disastrous. Lets learn the lesson and do something before something terrible happens and safety is compromised.

I've sat on an airplane for 3 hours, on the tarmac. Oh well. I didn't find it THAT BIG of a deal. But that is just me.

Such low expectations.. are you sure you are in the right job?

I don't care

Oh yeah, you probably are!

[ldl007]

I am surprised by ChrisH's response. He expects paying customers change their behavior because the gate agent is poorly paid and doesn't care about anymore training. For a gate agent, he seems to know a lot about Airline industry, the psychology of passengers, economy, immigration and others.
Is he really fearful that his job will go to a foreigner if the Airline comes under a foreign control? Does that fear translate into ill-treating foreign looking customers. Does inadequate/poor training clash with excessive powers at the gate?
Airline is a service industry; unfortunately due to 9/11, security is often used as a pretext to mask inefficiency, personal tiredness, anger, and prejudice. Nowadays, in an argument with customers, the airline employess is very quick to threaten calling the security. The customer has no choice-it is used as a weapon to subdue the passenger regardless of how right he or she might be.

[ChrisH]

I know this will be a complete reversal of what I said before. I seem to do that alot. You guys are right. I guess I like playing devil's advocate, sometimes.

Honestly, I work part-time for an airline, while I finish school. This isn't a career for me, by any means. I am well aware that changes need to be made in the airline industry. I just don't personally think it is going to happen. I hope I am wrong.

One of the biggest problems, and I can say this, as airline labor, is the lack of quality people that the airlines hire, and the lack of training. Yes, we go through training, but many of the employees that are hired, can't do something as simple as look up what time a flight is due to land, even after working for the airline for 6 months. To give an example of how easy to find that out is, the entry is simply a "2", followed by the flight number, and then hit enter. It will pull up the information. I get frustrated sometimes, and take things out on this site, against the wrong people, "the customers", because I get tired of dealing with the stupidity that seems to exist in today's youth (people my age), and in general, the pure lack of care, or concern for the labor groups, and the customers, that the airlines seem to be famous for. I guess I some ways, I think, deep down inside, if they can't treat labor well, why should they make all of these changes, to better treat customers.

Honestly ... I can tell you what will happen, if the airlines were forced to implement all of yall's ideas. Labor would take the hit, to help with the finances/costs. And then, the airlines would find new ways to screw the customer.

It is unforunate, but it really is a horrible industry. And, I would highly recommedn NEVER working for an airline. Honestly, I recommend driving, if you can. I nice road trip is fun, sometimes. I understand that in some cases, you must fly. Honestly, I think if people would try to stop flying as much as possible, the airlines may begin to change. BUT, then again, currently our flights, out of the airport I work at, are going out not even half full, sometimes with only 8-10 people, and yet, nothing has changed. Instead, the airlines up fees for everything, to try to make up the difference.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Perhaps, without realizing it, "ChrisH" stated the reason for licensing of gate workers, baggage handlers, and flight attendants: The status quo permits the hiring of anyTHING that is able to sign their name to the job application. Indeed the recent arrest of a Northwest Air flight attendant, on a charge of starting an in-flight fire, tends to support this view. Under the status quo, a staff member who---steals out of checked baggage, makes repeated bogus calls to the police, engages in unwarranted use of cuffs or other restraints in-flight, or files false police reports---faces, essentially, NO consequences. In the remote event a firing occurs, that person can find another airline to work for. Licensing ensures severe misconduct is punished with banning from the ENTIRE INDUSTRY, not just a specific airline. Licensing also guarantees there will be self-discipline. If a picture of the licensed person is included on their badge (similiar to what one sees inside the taxis of New York and other cities); and the license number is in a very large font, the staff member knows misbehavior might result in a report, with the license number of the offender, to the government. Will fares go up? Yes. Perhaps fares will, for the first time since deregulation, more accurately reflect the true cost of operating a flight. Will airlines go out of business? Again, yes. Airlines need to realize that, unlike McDonalds's or Walmart, the operation of a US-based airline is, to a large degree, a public trust. The requirement for a Certificate of Operation reflects this notion. In the context of an airline, the idea of a public trust can encompass the notion that:

* With the exception of bad weather, operations will bear a relationship to the printed timetable;
* There are adequate resources (equipment, aircraft and manpower) available to "recover" operations following a period of bad weather;
* The health of passengers will not be endangered with narrow seat pitches on flights of extended duration; the lack of fresh air being circulated in the cabin while in-flight, and on the ground; or the operation of flights with over-flowing toilets (that last condition should require landing at the nearest airport, if discovered after take-off.)
* Honesty will prevail when it comes to the terms of a given fare; Said terms must be written in "plain speak"--not higher than 8th grade level (the State of New Jersey has, by statute, set this standard for insurance policies)
* Connecting flights must either have realistic connecting times, or not be sold
* Staff, who abuse their authority; steal; extort money from customers ("I want $50 to open the door to the jetway"), or otherwise misbehave, will face REAL consequences.

Hence, the obligation of a holder of a public trust to conduct his business responsibly outweighs the evils connected with unemployment.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Perhaps, without realizing it, "ChrisH" stated the reason for licensing of gate workers, baggage handlers, and flight attendants: The status quo permits the hiring of anyTHING that is able to sign their name to the job application.

Wrong......ALL airline employees go through a backround check and are fingerprinted. The airline wants to hire someone after they find out he/she is a felon, up to them, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Indeed the recent arrest of a Northwest Air flight attendant, on a charge of starting an in-flight fire, tends to support this view.

Please get your facts straight. This person worked for Compass Airlines which is not Northwest Airlines. That would be like saying some guy who played single A baseball actually played for the big club. Not the same.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Under the status quo, a staff member who---steals out of checked baggage, makes repeated bogus calls to the police, engages in unwarranted use of cuffs or other restraints in-flight, or files false police reports---faces, essentially, NO consequences.

You have an obsession with this, don't you?? Anyone, including airline employees, who make false statements are subject to penalty. Let it rest.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Licensing ensures severe misconduct is punished with banning from the ENTIRE INDUSTRY, not just a specific airline. Licensing also guarantees there will be self-discipline. If a picture of the licensed person is included on their badge (similiar to what one sees inside the taxis of New York and other cities); and the license number is in a very large font, the staff member knows misbehavior might result in a report, with the license number of the offender, to the government.

This part I agree with. One has to be accountable for their actions.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

In the context of an airline, the idea of a public trust can encompass the notion that:

* With the exception of bad weather, operations will bear a relationship to the printed timetable;

Check out the DOT's stats on on time arrivals. What pecentage is your benchmark? Doing some quick research, November's stats show anything from the low 75.3 to 89.6 as the high. That includes weather delays which my research says anywhere from 39% to 44% each month are delayed by mother nature.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

* There are adequate resources (equipment, aircraft and manpower) available to "recover" operations following a period of bad weather;

Great idea. I love it. How is this done? Do they open the vault that says "Only use this equipment in case of weather delays?" Hire more employees on-call for weather days? Airlines have cut staff to below safe operating conditions. Less staff means they cannot operate the equipment in a safe and timely manner. Good idea but it won't fly.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

* The health of passengers will not be endangered with narrow seat pitches on flights of extended duration; the lack of fresh air being circulated in the cabin while in-flight, and on the ground; or the operation of flights with over-flowing toilets (that last condition should require landing at the nearest airport, if discovered after take-off.)

Increasing the pitch in seats would require taking out rows of seats resulting in either less revenue for the flight or increasing fares. Neither will happen.
The circulation problem is the aircraft manufacturers design problem. Maybe (I was not an a/c mechanic) the technicians of the airline could tinker with it but it really goes back to the design.
The toilets generally aren't a problem on domestic flights. The over the water flights is more of an issue but these aircrafts are lav serviced before their departure. This is such a small issue that any incidents are blown out of proportion. I will say when an aircraft is held on the tarmac for hours and then they overflow is unforgivable. But in-flight is so rare that I don't believe it's a problem.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

* Honesty will prevail when it comes to the terms of a given fare; Said terms must be written in "plain speak"--not higher than 8th grade level (the State of New Jersey has, by statute, set this standard for insurance policies)

Flight SearchPlan and purchase your next flight now. You can count on nwa.com to find the lowest available Northwest fare online - guaranteed.

The above is cut directly from NWA website. How much more clear do you want it to be??

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

* Connecting flights must either have realistic connecting times, or not be sold

Each airport has MCT (minimum connection times) and can be found with little effort. They vary by same airline to same airline domestic, same to same international, one to another domestic, one to another international. Also based on where each airline is located in the terminal, i.e., is a bus required to go from one terminal to another. In my experience, the MCT's are fine if things run smoothly. And airlines can't schedule for unexpected delays. In the case of MCT's, they have to plan for on-time flights.

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

* Staff, who abuse their authority; steal; extort money from customers ("I want $50 to open the door to the jetway"), or otherwise misbehave, will face REAL consequences.

Again, airline staff are subject to the same punishment as anyone else. I have personally seen people fired and some arrested for their actions so please just let this one go. I really have no idea why you beat this subject to death.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

“Let it rest.” “Good idea but it won't fly.”
“…airlines can't schedule for unexpected delays…”

Judge, you should go to work in the propaganda department of the Air Transport Association. These are, almost, their exact words. The thinking as betrayed by these words shows why, if significant re-regulation occurred, almost all US-based airlines would shut-down. There is a total denial of reality. The status quo is great, and efforts at re-regulation, or anything like it, must be kept at bay—at all costs. A smart business would see the writing on the wall and take pro-active steps to deal with re-regulation sentiment. Unfortunately, the USA has only one airline—Southwest—which could qualify for the title of a “smart business.”

“I really have no idea why you beat this subject to death.”

I think that was the answer a guard, at Guantamano, gave to a prisoner who, repeatedly, complained about waterboarding. “Judge,” you, and a lot of your scum b*g colleagues, who work for US-based airlines, obviously have a big time problem with people having Constitutional rights. At the very least, as I suggested previously, you feel said rights do not extend to aircraft in-flight or to airport property. May I suggest you use your employee travel privilege to get a one-way ticket to Myamar (Burma) or to Zimbabwe. You, and a lot of your colleagues, have, through your statements and actions, made it very clear that the governments in those countries are much more to your liking. For these reasons the continued presence in this country of people like you poses a threat far greater than any terrorist.

[The_Judge]

I'm all for re-regulation. You have it wrong there. I'd be happier than you realize if airlines shut down. You mention "smart business would see the writing on the wall and take pro-active steps to deal with re-regulation sentiment." Well, they are not smart but I was smart enough to realize it wasn't/isn't gonna change.

The U.S has alot more than one airline. Everyone seems to love WN but if you look, there is a section on this site about them. They are no different than anyone else in the fact they have complaints.

If you look just below my screen name, it says "Former Airline Employee". There is a reason for that. I am not at retirement age but after 20 years, enough crap was taken and I gave up. Partially because of people like you and partially because the airline industry will not change in my lifetime and the industry is completely different than it was when I started.

Calling my colleagues scumbags (I don't know why you put a * in there) is completely juvenile and makes it personal as does the statement that people like me are a greater threat than any terrorist. I long ago took a one way flight out of the U.S. and have no intention of returning but your statement is so far off base and so personal that I sincerely hope the mod of this board takes a serious look at it and takes action in the form of a ban. I don't believe this board is moderated consistently so I have little hope of that happening.

[ChrisH]

Butch,

I agree that more rigorous training, in particular, in customer service, is needed, but that will not prevent "corrupt", or dishonest people, from being hired. Police officers get arrested, for crimes you wouldn't think they would commit; yet they go through background checks, and training. Pilots get arrested for drinking, before flying, among other things, in recent news, yet they go through much training, and are well aware of the FARs, including rules about drinking. Nurses, and doctors are hit with charges for various things. Training will not prevent people from committing crimes, even on the job.

My question is, when you refer to a licensing program for gate, ticket, and ramp agents, exactly what type of training are you referring to? How rigorous should it be? Who will conduct the training? The airline? Will a separate school, before applying to the airline? How will licensing these people, and making them go through such training, effect the ability to hire, and staff these positions? As it is, airline employees have to go through 2+ weeks of training, at the majority of the airlines, for these positions. That, alone, effects the ability to hire, because many of the people working for the airlines, today, are students, and cannot afford to be away from school, etc., for such a time.

Also, we can’t ignore, because it is a reality, that the pay associated with these jobs, is already enough to deter some people from doing it. There is already high turnover, when people realize how little they make, working for an airline, and how much they have to do. If you add in some licensing program, yet pay rates stay as they are, you have to consider how that may affect the ability to staff effectively.

I agree with the concept, just don’t' know, overall, how well it will go over, or if it is something that may have a chance of becoming reality.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Either licensing, or something very close to it, will happen, or there will be more cameras installed. I assume the latter would be cheaper. Jet Blue's in-cabin cameras are good, but only if there are enough cameras to cover all areas of the cabin. In the case of cameras who has access to them is important. If cameras can be accessed by the same people being photographed, or their supervisors, then cameras are a waste of time.

Licensing would be primarily a means of consumer protection. If the badge followed a taxi cab format--photo, plus large font license number--behavior in SOME staff might be changed, or at least toned-down. While there will, still, be a lot of people who, even while wearing the license badge, will continue to act like jerks, the license number will facilitate the reporting of bad or illegal behavior just like an automobile license plate does. The cost could be covered by a flat annual assessment on each airline based on the average number of employees to be licensed. There would be no training requirements beyond what is already provided by the airline. Again, the primary purpose of the license would be to facilitate reporting--to the Transportation Dept. Consumer Section--of complaints. The DOT could maintain a data base, by license number, which would enable the identification of those staff who rack up complaints in a number that is unusual for their location or the types of aircraft (seating capacity) usually assigned to. Since the license would be issued only once, someone fired from airline "A" would have their "baggage" follow them to airline "B"

As to Constitutional rights, and the behavior of airline staff: Over the years some large city police departments have found themselves being controlled by a US Dept. of Justice monitor because the given city could not be trusted to control the behavior of some Officers. Some of the offenses committed by the rogue Officers included planting drugs on defendants and the filing of false reports. Some of these Officers may have been motivated by drug problems (steroids); pressure to “fit-in,” or simple greed. The sad reality is there are a small number of employees—flight attendants and ground staff—of US-based airlines who are very similar to these rogue Officers. However, unlike the Officers, the airline employees rarely get “caught.” The end result is one can find themselves locked in a metal tube, for several hours, with a flight attendant who has absolutely no respect for the US Constitution or the civil rights of the passengers over which he/she has a significant degree of control. Hence domestic air travel has become a game of Russian roulette in terms of one’s civil liberties. If we reach the point where eradication of civil liberties—in any situation--becomes necessary then we are no better than the terrorists we claim to oppose. We have, then, “become” the enemy.

[ChrisH]

I agree, to an extent. Currently, all airlines employees do have a badge, with an employee I.D. number. If you experience poor treatment, you can get that employees' name, and employee number. The employee, and airline, can be reported to the airline, itself, as well as the DOT, and if need be, if it concerns safety, the FAA. I realize this doesn't completely solve what you are talking about -- meaning the airline may, or may not do anything to the employee, as may be the case if a license number were reported to the DOT, where a record would be kept on the person. Keep in mind, pilots go through training, and have a license. Despite this, they aren't required to give a passenger their license number. The only person they have to surrender that to, upon request, is the FAA. The gate agent may have a license, but it may not be required of them to surrender that information to a passenger, at request, even if they wear the badge on them. It would also still be, as often is now, the airline agent's word, against the passenger's word. Unless multiple people report the same incident, there may be no grounds to pursue anything against the agent.

Most airports do have cameras. The airport I work at, has cameras everywhere, that are controlled, and monitored by the airport police. These cameras are at the gates, and ticket counters, among other locations. Not all airports may have this, but most airports do have cameras, which monitor these areas.

One thing people need to do more of, is report their complaints to the DOT, and the FAA. If you think about it, the customer relations departments, for the airlines, are the airlines --- they aren't going to go over, and beyond to compensate people. I've heard people make the threat, "I'm reporting this to customer service". Well, customer service works for the airline, as well. They may offer something, but as many find out, they rarely do. Better to go above the airline, itself. Remember, the same airline that hired the rude agents, also hired the people working in customer service, and also tells the people in customer service how to handle, or lack thereof, complaints. Go to the DOT and the FAA. Go to the DOT for issues regarding the airline not holding it's end of the contract, or treating passengers poorly, and contact the FAA pertaining to issues regarding safety.

[Leatherboy2006]

Wow, as we get more cameras in every place we go, it sounds more and more like "big brother" watching. Are we now a communist society were every movement we do and make watched.
As for the justice department taking over local police, again big government taking over, thus making the federal government more of a police state. For those that still don't want to wake up and realize, the Confederate States were fighting such big government control, while slavery was the issue it was still the fight to keep a Federal government out of states rights (no were in the constitution is a state forbidden for leaving the USA and yet Lincoln invaded the south with his troops). Also Karl Marx was a big Lincoln fan and used a lot of his beliefs in forming his ideas of commist.

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

And, no: I have never been arrested, or even threatened with arrest.

You know what? I think you're a liar. Why else would you bring this up every chance you get?

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

You know what? I think you're a liar. Why else would you bring this up every chance you get?

A*****e, it’s called CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! The sooner this country is rid of facist pigs like you, the better. As I said to your friend, The Judge:

…use your employee travel privilege to get a one-way ticket to Myamar (Burma) or to Zimbabwe. You…, through your statements and actions, (have) made it very clear that the governments in those countries are much more to your liking.

Indeed, The Judge says he already left the country. Why don’t you join him??

Jetliner, there are tons of dirty films you can watch to get your kicks. Bullying customers, who’s only offense was buying a ticket from your airline, is not the way to go.

I strongly encourage any airline customer who is subjected to bullying, from someone like yourself, to take steps (a civil action) making this kind of behavior very expensive.

42 USC § 1983 (United States Code):Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity…

Hopefully, Jetliner, the Court will believe you when you lie under oath and say that 85 year old lady was threatening you with an AK-47! And if you think this statute doesn't apply, there are a lot of lawyers who will open your eyes.

As far as you, or anyone you work with, being an Iraq war veteran: Anyone who thinks like you do has negated any honor connected with their service—with, or without, amputations.

[Jetliner]

First of all, reality check. Why don't you try reading the forum rules. I do believe you are in violation of a few. Secondly, you mihgt try reading- I no longer work for an airline. I got tired of people such as yourself.

And let's take a look at that Constitutional rights thing. If you go into Wal-Mart, or McDonalds, or even your local groacery store and start yelling and cussing at the staff, what do you think they will do? First, tell you that it's time for you to go, then call the police. Obviously your post was written in a rather angy fit. What would you have been like in person? It kind of goes with that whole "Crowded theater" thing. You can express your opinion, however you may not cross the line.

While it's not right for any airport agent to act rude, you still need to remember that you are dealing with a private business, no different than those aforementioned.

Also, where did I ever say anything about being in Iraq?

[Jetliner]

Hey Butch, where's your response to this one?