[Courtervideo]

With most airlines charging rapidly increasing fees for luggage, the flying public has responded by carrying the maximum amount of baggage on-board. After a recent trip with 6 flights in 6 days, we saw the results of these policies: if you are not among the first half of passengers on board, your carry-on luggage will likely not find space in the overhead compartments. Never in 40 years of travel have we seen such frantic and desperate attempts by the passengers to board early and get access to the limited space. I spoke to one flight attendant who said she used to love her job, but with the new baggage policies, "hated the boarding process" and would soon quit. With carry-ons becoming a major hassle and passengers giving their bags to attendants who search up and down the isle to find spaces into which to jam luggage, both the boarding and exiting processes have become far less efficient causing delays and missed connections. There is no joy in airline travel anymore.

[AirlinesMustPay]

What has been happening more and more is that the last set of passengers to board a full aircraft often don't get room for their carry ons in the overhead bins. According to what passengers are told they can have a carryon of certain dimensions and weight and also based on what they are told this may be where they keep their valuables.

If the carryons comply with the stipulated dimensions and weight and are yet taken away to be put in the cargo hold, the airline is likely to be liable for any loss of the valuables.

[justme]

Originally Posted by Courtervideo

With most airlines charging rapidly increasing fees for luggage, the flying public has responded by carrying the maximum amount of baggage on-board. After a recent trip with 6 flights in 6 days, we saw the results of these policies: if you are not among the first half of passengers on board, your carry-on luggage will likely not find space in the overhead compartments. Never in 40 years of travel have we seen such frantic and desperate attempts by the passengers to board early and get access to the limited space. I spoke to one flight attendant who said she used to love her job, but with the new baggage policies, "hated the boarding process" and would soon quit. With carry-ons becoming a major hassle and passengers giving their bags to attendants who search up and down the isle to find spaces into which to jam luggage, both the boarding and exiting processes have become far less efficient causing delays and missed connections. There is no joy in airline travel anymore.

Although I am not a FA, I agree with their sentiment wholeheartedly. The carry-on situation is rapidly becoming not just a problem, but an epidemic. It is definitely causing delays, and way too many of them, but I have yet to see a situation where someone missed a connecting flight because of a 5 - 10 min delay (max) for loading gate checked bags. If you did miss you flight because of a 5 min delay, you were cutting it too close in the first place, IMO.

Originally Posted by AirlinesMustPay

What has been happening more and more is that the last set of passengers to board a full aircraft often don't get room for their carry ons in the overhead bins. According to what passengers are told they can have a carryon of certain dimensions and weight and also based on what they are told this may be where they keep their valuables.

If the carryons comply with the stipulated dimensions and weight and are yet taken away to be put in the cargo hold, the airline is likely to be liable for any loss of the valuables.

The problem is not generally that the carry-ons do not comply with the "size-wise" dimensions. It is that in order to avoid fees to check bags at the ticket counter, passengers are carrying an increasing number of bags with them as "carry-ons". While I do see and understand the logic behind this, it is against all airlines rules that I have ever read. As a general rule, passengers are allowed to bring 1 carry-on bag, that meets size requirements, as well as a personal item (male/female purse, computer bag, briefcase, etc). More and more passengers are carrying 2 bags, a computer, a backpack, and a purse. Then, because no one has stopped them from carrying too much stuff, the overheads are filled before half of the airplane has even boarded. I was recently in a meeting and this very issue came up. Nothing was decided for sure on how to correct the problem, but I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing more airline representatives at the entrance to the security lines to monitor the number of bags being carried, and also wouldn't be surprised if the fee to check a bag at the gate is soon more than it is at the ticket counter, (because you have too many, not because of something you can't control such as overheads being full). The idea here is to discourage people from trying to carry too many bags on the airplane and check the bags at the ticket counter from the start. Again, nothing was set in stone at this meeting, they were merely suggestions that came up.

[wkharris2001]

one thing i've noticed on flights is that many people are putting they're "personal item" which is designed to fit underneath the seat in front of you in the overhead bin as well..... I usually only carry a back pack laptop bag on the flight with me and always put it underneath the seat in front of me, unless there is enough overhead space when i get on (since i'm always the last on) if everyone put more underneath the seat in front of them this would also eliminate some of the problem

[AirlinesMustPay]

I myself flying Delta JFK to Port of Spain in what appeared to be a full flight, was asked at the door of the aircraft to give up my carry on. It was tagged and I received a receipt for it. I had one small briefcase containing only a laptop which could fit under the seat in front of me and one carry on which was smaller and lighter than stipulated for carry ons. I didn't really mind and the agent did ask me first if I had any valuables or medication in the carry on. I am allowed one carry one and one personal item which could be a briefcase.

My point is that some passengers may be exceeding their limit and filling up the overhead bins, but for passengers who were not exceeding any limit, why should they have to give up their carryons. Although I didn't mind, some passengers did.

Another man was in front of me was asked to give up his carry on at the door. He objected and the agent said to him, 'But you have three bags". He said, no, i have one carry on one small bag with personal items and this third plastic shopping bag is just my coat folded up. To illustrate he took out the coat and put in on and sure enough the plastic bag was then empty. The agent said, "im sorry, but there is no more room for carry ons except what can fit under the seat' and took the carry on.

[wkharris2001]

it's a shame that with the online and self check in that there is not a better way to monitor how many bags are being carried on. and when it comes down to boarding time, agents don't have time to be the baggage police we have other duties to worry about with getting the flight boarded and out on time. so it's honestly easier to just "overlook" the 3rd bag that the gentleman is trying to take on than stop him, debate with him about the rules and hear him say "but i did it last time" get told that you're rude because you're not telling them what they want to hear, have the supervisor come over to the gate, delay the flight, and then get in trouble because the passenger accused you of being rude.

last i heard they were trying to get a bill passed so that the TSA would take over the function of making sure the size of carry on items is not being exceeded this won't help with the number of carry ons, but will make a little bit of room.

http://travelsentry.blogspot.com/200...n-baggage.html

I honestly think they should just get rid of the baggage charges but it's easy revenue for the airlines so they won't

[justme]

Originally Posted by wkharris

last i heard they were trying to get a bill passed so that the TSA would take over the function of making sure the size of carry on items is not being exceeded this won't help with the number of carry ons, but will make a little bit of room.

I honestly think they should just get rid of the baggage charges but it's easy revenue for the airlines so they won't

TSA taking over would make the airlines job easier for sure, but as I understand the current process, they are supposed to be helping monitor how many bags are being carried thru the checkpoint, but don't. Really, what difference does it make to them? Why should they care?

As far as bag fees creating revenue, you are absolutely right. But do you know how much revenue? Just wondering, because if you did, you may think twice before you say they should get rid of the fees. (Since your profit sharing check depends solely on whether or not DL makes a profit! )

[wkharris2001]

yes justme, I simply stated i would like to see them go away so i don't have to listen to the passengers complain about it and tell me that southwest does not charge bag fees. if i had a dollar for every passenger that told me they'd not fly delta again because of the bag fees and go to southwest. I'd have my lunch bought for me everyday at the airport.

delta airport customer service was estimated to have waived 40 million dollars worth of fees last year. (they estimate it because they include letting a 51 lb bag go through as a waiver) or at least that is what we were told.

[Gromit801]

If TSA took over the job of judging the proper size of a carry-on, I see chaos ensuing. Not every aircraft has the same size bins. How will TSA know what particular type of AC a given airline is using for a given flight? And if there's a last minute AC substitution, say an MD80 with smaller overhead bins has to stand in for a 737?

[Jetliner]

Every airline has a set dimension of allowable carry on size, so the TSA could use that, but on the other hand it's not the same at each airline. Besides, they don't enforce their own rule of one carry on plus one personal item, so they are not going to enforce a size limit either.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by wkharris2001

one thing i've noticed on flights is that many people are putting they're "personal item" which is designed to fit underneath the seat in front of you in the overhead bin as well..... I usually only carry a back pack laptop bag on the flight with me and always put it underneath the seat in front of me, unless there is enough overhead space when i get on (since i'm always the last on) if everyone put more underneath the seat in front of them this would also eliminate some of the problem

If the seat pitch in economy weren't so cramped maybe more passengers would utilize the stowage area under the seat. If you take away that space to stretch your feet into you wind up with your knees touching your chest for the entire flight!

[Silent Bob]

I think what should happen, is the airlines need to enforce more strongly the 2 piece carry one rule, it has gotten outrageous. I was told from a coworker that the only people that get it right in this regard is the british, when they limited carry on to one piece only. I myself only bring a briefcase and a carry on bag that meets the overhead standard. But sometimes you see people with so many pieces i.e. a backpack, shopping bags, carry on luggage, it makes you wonder why no one says anything to begin with. I say start charging at the gate, which would help limit people carrying on so much.

Now if you're a parent traveling with children, I think that is the exception of the rule, because you gotta keep the kids happy (so they can stop kicking my chair). Same goes for someone who needs additional care.

[justme]

Originally Posted by Gromit

If TSA took over the job of judging the proper size of a carry-on, I see chaos ensuing. Not every aircraft has the same size bins. How will TSA know what particular type of AC a given airline is using for a given flight? And if there's a last minute AC substitution, say an MD80 with smaller overhead bins has to stand in for a 737?

100% agree, chaos would indeed ensue if they tried to enforce every airlines rules differently. But, I think the guidelines for all airlines are similar enuf that they could just say, "One carry-on that meets the size requirements, and one personal item to pass the checkpoint." Make the size/number standard across the board so that it is easy to enforce.

Originally Posted by PHX

If the seat pitch in economy weren't so cramped maybe more passengers would utilize the stowage area under the seat. If you take away that space to stretch your feet into you wind up with your knees touching your chest for the entire flight!

Agree again. What would you suggest as an alternative other than getting rid of revenue producing seats? You know we (airlines) aren't going to do that. Do you really think changing seat pitch would make much of a difference?

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

I think what should happen, is the airlines need to enforce more strongly the 2 piece carry one rule, it has gotten outrageous. I was told from a coworker that the only people that get it right in this regard is the british, when they limited carry on to one piece only. I myself only bring a briefcase and a carry on bag that meets the overhead standard. But sometimes you see people with so many pieces i.e. a backpack, shopping bags, carry on luggage, it makes you wonder why no one says anything to begin with. I say start charging at the gate, which would help limit people carrying on so much.

Now if you're a parent traveling with children, I think that is the exception of the rule, because you gotta keep the kids happy (so they can stop kicking my chair). Same goes for someone who needs additional care.

SB, everything you suggest should happen are in fact policies that are already in place (to my knowledge), unfortunately they are not being enforced. Gate agents are supposed to be charging for (excess) baggage at the gate, and parents carrying a stroller, diaper bag, etc are not penalized for it. The reason I have been given for why they are not enforcing and charging for excess baggage is because it will simply delay the flight. Stopping the boarding process to charge every other person for an extra bag would double the boarding time needed. So, the agent has to choose between delaying the flight and explaining themselves, or ignoring the people carrying too many bags and hope everything fits. It is an imperfect system, and trust me when I say we are working on ways to fix it.


Suggestions from everyone but jimworcs would be greatly appreciated! J/K jim... I'll take your ideas too!

[Gromit801]

I see the point about TSA enforcing the number of bags going with a person. Too bad the airlines aren't doing it themselves at the counter or the gate.

[jimworcs]

This is the law of unintended consequences: if you introduce charges for bags in the hold, people will seek to avoid the charges. People now try to get away with ridiculous amounts of hand luggage. I suggest that 20 minutes before boarding commences you make an announcement advising passengers that hand baggage rules will be strictly enforced. Those who do not meet them should pay immediately and gate check the bags. If they fail to do so, they will be denied boarding. Enforce that for a week and you will soon change peoples behaviour. Currently, the airline is actively encouraging people to break the rules. Passengers are penalised for checking bags in, but the rules are not enforced for hand luggage.... now, let me guess what people will do in those circumstances.

[justme]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

This is the law of unintended consequences: if you introduce charges for bags in the hold, people will seek to avoid the charges.

Couldn't have put it better myself Jim. The way you suggest discouraging people from carrying too many bags seems like it would be effective, but what about the people who didn't travel during that week and hear the new announcements? What about agents who are working flights by themselves, if someone doesn't voluntarily pay for excess bags and is then holding up the line during boarding, whether we deny them boarding or charge them double the standard bag rate, we're back to square one and delaying the departure again. I have looked at this issue from every angle I can think of, and my only solid conclusion is this: It is a very simple problem, with an astoundingly complex solution.

[Leatherboy2006]

I think PHX mentioned seat pitch, during a recent conversation at dinner, we started debating if the seats really had gotten smaller or if America's recent increase in girth was more to blame. Consider that Disneyland last year did a remodel of "It's a Small World" The press release said to "update" it, the truth was the boats couldn't handle the increased sized of guests and were constantly bottoming out on the ride. They both increase the dept and wideth of the "river" through the ride and the size of the boats. So are airline seats getting smaller or passengars getting bigger? Me I am sick of being stuck next to the obese people who flop into my seat (even at movie theatres)

[justme]

Originally Posted by Leatherboy2006

I think PHX mentioned seat pitch, during a recent conversation at dinner, we started debating if the seats really had gotten smaller or if America's recent increase in girth was more to blame. Consider that Disneyland last year did a remodel of "It's a Small World" The press release said to "update" it, the truth was the boats couldn't handle the increased sized of guests and were constantly bottoming out on the ride. They both increase the dept and wideth of the "river" through the ride and the size of the boats. So are airline seats getting smaller or passengars getting bigger? Me I am sick of being stuck next to the obese people who flop into my seat (even at movie theatres)

Large people not fitting in a standard seat, whether it is in an airplane or a theater is a whole different conversation. Everyone carries too many bags.

[Leatherboy2006]

I was not the first to bring up seat pitch in this thread, Justme, reminds me why I don't fly Delta, and was glad to see them leave Dallas as a hub

[justme]

Originally Posted by Leatherboy2006

I was not the first to bring up seat pitch in this thread, Justme, reminds me why I don't fly Delta, and was glad to see them leave Dallas as a hub

You're right you weren't. But you were the first to take it in a direction that has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread. PHX's reference to seat pitch did have relevance to the issue at hand. People being too large to fit in a seat has nothing to do with it.

[jimworcs]

The other alternative is to include the costs of luggage in the ticket price, so there is no financial incentive to take too many bags on the aircraft.

Or has that been tried before?....................

[justme]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

The other alternative is to include the costs of luggage in the ticket price, so there is no financial incentive to take too many bags on the aircraft.

Or has that been tried before?....................

It's been thought of and done in the past and I can tell you why they won't bring it back. When a traveler is planning a trip from ABC to XYZ, they are searching for the cheapest fare they can find listed. Most often the fares listed do not include "taxes, fees, or other add-ons" when they are shown online. We know this to be the case and we also know it can cause much heartache when someone realizes they are being charged any significant amount more than they had planned on (RyanAir, AerLingus). I digress, but let's suppose you are looking at a list of prices from ABC to XYZ on the screen infront of you, you see airlines A thru D have the flight for $110. Airline E assumes you will be bringing 2 bags and incorporates the cost into the ticket so their price is $155. Who do you think the consumer is going to pick? You guessed it, not airline E. So in order to get the sale from the get go, the fees cannot be added unless EVERY AIRLINE adds the same amount to EVERY ticket.

I'm sure you knew all that already, but I felt like typing!

[Etihad Representative]

Here's a thought.

You say about including the cost to the ticket price, and that people won't pay extra for an airline charging baggage costs in the ticket cost etc etc.

Why havent airlines thought to put the extra baggage costs into the Passenger Service Charge that we already get charged regardless of whether we want too or not? ( Not sure about the USA PSC?!?) Surely if they upped the PSC by say $20 per person, we wouldnt really know. that versus charging for every or extra baggage may (or may not) solve the problem. It is a "passenger service" carrying baggage after all.

Further to this the total fares would show the same plus "taxes" , as it does now, so airlines would still be able to complete effectively.

AND, passengers might stop taking their life's belongings into the cabin ...

Would certainly help me in my role dealing with complaints, as baggage issues are probably around 15% of all complaints we recieve ...

[The_Judge]

I'm guessing you mean PFC. (Passenger Facility Charge) And if so, that charge is supposed to go to the airport. $4.50usd per airport the passengers steps foot in. It's not a fee the airline receives.

[Etihad Representative]

Oh ok, good to know, Thanks

Seems it is slightly different in this part of the world. we have what is termed Passenger Service charge, a fee that is charged dependent on ticket type for excess baggage charges. I looked into it after posting (am at work so have the resourses) and it seems we already do so! I missed the idea boat

So no idea what could help now ...