[LuLou]

The US DOT, Consumer Protection Department and their Aviation Enforcement Office,THE FTA and FAA have not yet been notified of THIS complaint as of yet due to hopes of an impending mitigation away from a potential lawsuit.

I am in the process of working with the AirTran customer complaint department with Airtran Airlines right now from this incident that is on video from the cabin cameras, as well as 2 non related, witnesses. The actual incident was during the last week of April, about a month ago. Who have done nothing even close to rectifying the situation and that is why I am writing!!

My wife and myself were en route to Mpls. Mn. from Atlanta and I had taken a picture of my wife across the isle, we BOTH had the Window seats in the emergency exits mid ship(Wing Exits)
I have a cell phone that has a flash and a slight delay after I push the button to take the picture, it slowly says "Now say cheese" and then flashes and takes the photo. Well, I had taken one photo of my wife with no problem, then as I went to take a second, the Attendants were walking the cart up the isle and had slightly stepped in the way and it flashed and had taken the picture.

Well this is where the assault and embarrassment takes place, "Shakira" (Flight attendant) her real name, looked over at me and asked if I took a picture, I said yes, and she grabbed my camera out of my hand and I asked "is it against the law to take a picture of my wife on a plane?" knowing that it wasn't,HOWEVER, Shakira said in a very mean, LOUD and nasty tone "YES IT IS and I am DELETING those pictures!!" and proceeded to delete pictures at will off of my phone!!(The major problem is in the process she DELETED 2 KEY photos of my wife and I on our honeymoon cruise in Roatan, Honduras a week earlier that I cannot get back !!And of course the 2 photos I had just taken of my wife.)
I asked her what she is doing and she said that "I am deleting those pictures" and in SHOCK and fear that if I went to grab my phone back that there would be air marshalls hauling me off to jail when we landed, so I sat still, in shock, and afraid to do anything.

Immediately after landing we went to the customer service counter and filed a report with "Robert" (real Name) who wrote up the report with my wife in tears and finally off the plane and not in fear anymore we got in our rental car and proceeded to go see our Family members that were sick and why we arrived. I have sent numerous intranet (AirTran website) complaints only to have been pretty well blown off. Please contact me before you air this as they might be willing to take care of this properly now that my favorite complaint Forum is involved.


Just a fair settlement is all I am seeking. Thanks for any and all replies/feedback.
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[jimworcs]

You need to be specific about what you want. It is possible that the FA has assaulted you.. in which case you can take small claims court action. She has no right to put her hands on you, and neither does she have any legal right to delete your photos.

It is not within AirTrans capability to give you the pictures back. Even if they decided to fire the employee, you would never know this due to privacy reasons. So you must decide. What would satisfy you? Do you want money, a voucher or an apology? You need to state what redress you want and as long as it is reasonable, you may get some offer. However, airline employees are increasingly of the opinion that once you are in the air, normal laws are suspended and you are entirely at their power and command. This is totally wrong. She had no legal right to seize your property and she exceeded the law in deleting your photographs. You can take action in Civil Court, Small Claims or even consider making a criminal complaint for assault and/or criminal damage to your property.

[LuLou]

Thanks Jimworcs and I totally agree with you and that is why/how I found this great forum. I did send a reasonable demand letter and we will see if I need to go to court or not, (They offered me an AirTran $25 voucher = Insult) I am waiting "Ten Business Days" for a Supervisors reply to my 4th reply letter via-email to a tier 1 CS Agent, all documented for future use in court. I appreciate your opinion, even if it could possibly? be FOR the airline.

Thanks for the boost as I was feeling wore down, Thank you, Thank you Thank you !!

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by LuLou

I appreciate your opinion, even if it could possibly? be FOR the airline.

jimworcs? pro-airline? Now I've heard it all. (insert smiley lauging his head off)

[Jetliner]

I'm not buying this one. There's a lot that's telling me this is a BS story, but one fact is indisputable - you said it was caught on video by cabin cameras - FACT - Air Tran does not have cameras in the cabin. In fact, Jet Blue is the only airline I'm aware of (at least in the US) that has a camera in the cabin, and even then as I understand it, it is not recorded. It is only there for the flight deck crew to monitor the cabin.

Therefor there is no possible way that Air Tran could be working with you on video footage.

[LuLou]

Smile, you're on cabin camera

April 21, 2002|By Dennis Blank, New York Times News Service.
James Pink, a Rochester business executive who frequently flies on JetBlue Airways, says he has no problem with being observed by hidden cameras.
"The safer they make the planes," Pink said, "the better it will be."
JetBlue is the first airline to install cameras in a passenger cabin, and most other American airlines are expected to follow.


"The cabin camera surveillance system is the logical next step to protect our customers and crew," said David Neeleman, JetBlue's chief executive.
The hidden cameras will allow pilots to watch passengers on two cockpit screens. "If there was a disturbance back there, they would be able to monitor the situation and land as soon as possible," said Capt. Lanny McAndrew, chief pilot for JetBlue.
But Mitch Dresner, a New York business executive who is also a frequent flier, says camera surveillance is not worth the intrusion. "I don't think it will make a difference," Dresner said. "The pilots have enough to do. It won't stop anybody from getting on the aircraft."
Putting cameras on board aircraft was a recommendation of a committee of airline industry executives and government officials after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Though there is no legal requirement to do so, 19 other airlines have applied to the Federal Aviation Administration for permission to introduce the surveillance equipment on domestic and international flights. The FAA refused to say which airlines had applied.
While agreeing that surveillance cameras may provide added security, critics want assurances that passenger privacy will be protected.
"We do have privacy concerns," said Barry Steinhardt, associate director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "This is an example of where technology is in the Space Age, but the law that protects privacy is back in the Stone Age. This may well be an appropriate role, but we don't know if it will be abused in the future."
Under pressure to put security measures in place as quickly as possible, the airlines are rushing to put cameras or other alarm devices on board. JetBlue was the first to get official permission from the FAA; it has installed cameras in one plane and plans to add them to the rest of its fleet in the next three months.
Delta Air Lines received FAA approval in October to test security cameras on a jetliner. "We are currently evaluating the results of that test," Katherine Stengel, a spokeswoman for Delta said this month. "We are looking at different products to enhance security on our aircraft."

This is an article from 8+ YRS Ago. All planes have had cameras since 03', if American can load camera's on their entire fleet in 3 months, all planes WILL Have camera's installed when mfg.
They, AirTran's only defense is that they are reviewing the films to say it never happened. I have witnesses that saw it happen and that will be enough to pursue this.
Look at how fast they put up ALL the "Red Light Camera's?" You think a homicide happens at that intersection, they can't play back the whole 3 minutes to view the scene and get all the facts even though they just supposedly take still shots, c'mon big brother's HERE TO Stay.....
Thanks for your reply though!!

[mars6423]

i believe that you have a case for assault

but i do remember reading a case where someone was taking pictures (with a camara not cell phone) and their photos had to be deleted/confiscated (not sure the airline-but it was an american based airline). so even though it may not be a law in the US or internationally, it maybe against the airlines policy and they may state that it is safety reasons to prevent a disaster.

Some airlines will have tighter rules, and then there are those rules that are in place where no one knows about and they are never acted on, i have seen people take pictures on the plane before but i have also seen people ASKED to refrain from taking pictures and delete those pictures (without snatching it away-they would watch to see that they are)

i wish you good luck on whatever course of action takes place, hopefully they will offer compensation to your liking before any court process as that can be time consuming and expensive and there is never a 100% chance of a win in court especially if they bring in their big shot lawyers

[jimworcs]

I too am having doubts about the veracity of LuLou's posts, but lets just go with this. Even if the airline had a policy against photography within the cabin, they are not empowered to enforce the law by deleting pictures directly. No-one has given Cabin Crew enforcement powers. The remedy for the airline would be to call for the police to meet the flight. If the events outlined in this post are true (IF), the FA has exceeded their powers. They simply could not win in court.

[LuLou]

One of my wife's close friend that we visited in Mnpls. is FA for Northwest for 21+ years and she about fell out of her chair in shock when wife told her what happened. She said everything that u guys said about case, assault, damage to property. Even went as far to say that she "Takes pictures for, with, people/families for fun all the time", and the only forbidden snapshots on ANY airline is a cockpit picture (which I agree!!) I'll update after they get back with me on my suggested solution. Thanks for re edifying all my doubts. Being that Robert "Wrote Shakira" up after we landed and agreed that "Technically" there is NO Photo restrictions other than the cockpit, We'll get more than a(1) $25 Voucher. That's a guarantee. Thanks for the 3rd party insights.

[Jetliner]

LuLou - you can believe your own crap if you want, the FACT is that there are NO cameras in the cabin of aircraft except Jet Blue. Just because they had applied for them, doesn't mean they ever got put in.

[mars6423]

my friend just got off a Continental flight from tokyo to newark in which a flight attendant said that a man was touching her and they saw each other at the hotel later on that night and she said that there is limited things she could do as there were no witnesses since everyone was sleeping in business class, and there are NO camaras on the plane to tape it

and she went on to say that there are no major US airlines other than jetblue that has camaras on board and def. not ones that have video recording capabilities

and she is a senior/veteran flight attendant

[LuLou]

My case is that there is witnesses, NOT Whether there are cameras or not. You are way OFF TRACK. I Know for a fact that the other FA serving the cart was not watching her mate either as I watched HER while the other snatched my camera and deleted pictures !! Yay!! and she had all her attention to the other side of the isle. Just what I am looking for, all the obstacles that are going to (hopefully not go to trial) come up in court. Keep em coming.

[LuLou]

""JIM""
No-one has given Cabin Crew enforcement powers. The remedy for the airline would be to call for the police to meet the flight.""

Exactly.

[LuLou]

So I guess it's a slam #$@!. ALL I NEEDED To know. I don't care who I / We go up against. Civil, criminal, civil again, corporate reputation(Yah right!!) Did I stir up the hornets nest enough, yes I did? Gimme all you got folks, that's what I need to be prepared...........Thanks again........ Last post till decision for compensation, Thank You guys, Truly....

[LuLou]

Originally Posted by Jetliner

LuLou - you can believe your own crap if you want, the FACT is that there are NO cameras in the cabin of aircraft except Jet Blue. Just because they had applied for them, doesn't mean they ever got put in.

You have to believe to achieve.

I don't care if there was a cabin camera or not, that was not, IS Not my leverage or point, IF There was, on that plane though, we spoke up quick enough to have that flights video pulled from the loops for review. Hooray!! If not, it's not a make or break moog point. ALL I WANT JIM, is to be "Made right", oh, this is Jetliner's soup, sorry. Appreciate your feedback greatly...........

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by LuLou

My case is that there is witnesses, NOT Whether there are cameras or not. You are way OFF TRACK.

Wait, I'm confused by that. Why?

Originally Posted by LuLou

I am in the process of working with the AirTran customer complaint department with Airtran Airlines right now from this incident that is on video from the cabin cameras, as well as 2 non related, witnesses.

Originally Posted by LuLou

This is an article from 8+ YRS Ago. All planes have had cameras since 03', if American can load camera's on their entire fleet in 3 months, all planes WILL Have camera's installed when mfg.
They, AirTran's only defense is that they are reviewing the films to say it never happened. I have witnesses that saw it happen and that will be enough to pursue this.

Bolds are mine for emphasis. You are making statements saying that there was a cabin camera and Air Tran is reviewing that camera, but now that you have been called out on that you are back peddling???

The fact is there are no cameras on planes other than jet blue, and with that your credibility of your story is lacking.

In the mean time I'm done with this thread. I'm not feeding into this line of crap any further. This is almost as bad as the person who claims they caught some part flying off of a Southwest flight on camera twice, which was proven to be something on their lens and they still insisted otherwise.

[LuLou]

I am done too, until the outcome, THANK YOU for your time to this point. I meant that they are reviewing the incident, most likely off the cabin recording if they have one on that plane. You my friend are dooped if you think that the ONLY planes with cameras are JetBlue. They might be the only line that states they do. They are not always (The intelligent corp.) are going to even tell thier employees, even the employed pilots if there are cameras. In most situations, they do not even have to disclose such info.

Have a great week and I WILL Post results for all to see the outcome for the forum OP's sake.

Take Care.

[putinontheritz]

Originally Posted by Jetliner

Wait, I'm confused by that. Why?





Bolds are mine for emphasis. You are making statements saying that there was a cabin camera and Air Tran is reviewing that camera, but now that you have been called out on that you are back peddling???

The fact is there are no cameras on planes other than jet blue, and with that your credibility of your story is lacking.

In the mean time I'm done with this thread. I'm not feeding into this line of crap any further. This is almost as bad as the person who claims they caught some part flying off of a Southwest flight on camera twice, which was proven to be something on their lens and they still insisted otherwise.

It seems like you are trying too hard to grill the details. AND that you are disgruntled in some way? I see this case as being a lot more serious than the other Fox news story about the lady that did not wake up and was left alone on the plane for a couple hours. The rectification that a jury of peers, if it goes that far, will rule in Lulous favor...........

[putinontheritz]

Originally Posted by LuLou

I am done too, until the outcome, THANK YOU for your time to this point. I meant that they are reviewing the incident, most likely off the cabin recording if they have one on that plane. You my friend are dooped if you think that the ONLY planes with cameras are JetBlue. They might be the only line that states they do. They are not always (The intelligent corp.) are going to even tell thier employees, even the employed pilots if there are cameras. In most situations, they do not even have to disclose such info.

Have a great week and I WILL Post results for all to see the outcome for the forum OP's sake.

Take Care.

Please update us.

[LuLou]

UPDATE!! Phone call from a CCRO@airtran.c&^ agent. we talked, he was not happy with their predicament and he / they said that they will "OPEN AN Official investigation at this time, original demand.($,$$$.00)

Out till more progress''''' Thanks.

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by putinontheritz

It seems like you are trying too hard to grill the details. AND that you are disgruntled in some way?

No, not disgruntled at all. Yes, I was grilling a bit. There is a reason. The OP is claiming that there are definitely cameras on the plane. I know for a fact there are not. I know for a fact that the cameras cannot be placed there without the knowledge of the mechanics or the pilots. Both absolutely need to know about every system on that aircraft. But the OP is trying to say that Air Tran is telling him/her that they will look at the cameras. So it's simply a matter of them making a claim that is simply not true, but still trying to perpetuate the lie.

[LuLou]

Originally Posted by mars6423

my friend just got off a Continental flight from tokyo to newark in which a flight attendant said that a man was touching her and they saw each other at the hotel later on that night and she said that there is limited things she could do as there were no witnesses since everyone was sleeping in business class, and there are NO camaras on the plane to tape it

and she went on to say that there are no major US airlines other than jetblue that has camaras on board and def. not ones that have video recording capabilities

and she is a senior/veteran flight attendant

(Aren't they all? In their own minds, this gal was what, 27 years? Any less and they are just rookies huh? What a mindless J O B, IMHO)

Folks. MY original post/ (#1), was REGARDING the AirTran FA's GROSS Negligence of grabbing my camera phone, lying to me about "No pictures can be taken on any planes,and if I interfered with her deleting she will have me arrested" and then (UNBELIEVEBLY!!) deleting photos off my camera phone that were from our Honeymoon cruise 2-3 weeks before this flight. So let's not let Wjetliner get everyone OFF Topic about slammeras and distracted, FYI, I personally spoke with Feiger at 11am est MYSELF, so I can get some worthwhile help, or anyone else that needs it can get it...........

Very shortly I will be posting MY OWN Diligent results !!!! Yes, with my results,= I have QUICKLY BECAME a sr. poster/advisor.hehe

[airplanegod]

To LuLou, this is complaints against Southwest airlines, not jetblue. I don't know where you get your info from.

[LuLou]

Originally Posted by airplanegod

To LuLou, this is complaints against Southwest airlines, not jetblue. I don't know where you get your info from.

Can you read the title Grasshopper?
In-flight Issues Did you experience any problems during an AirTran Airways flight?



This is to clarify that my complaint has been taken care of:

Results:
#1.) FULL Refund of Round trip ticket price from Airtran for my wife and Myself Via a Check from Corporate Headquarters in Atlanta.
#2.) Voucher Code for 2, 1st Class (Business Class) with NO Blackout Dates, Restrictions of any kind including booking dates, free drinks etc. ie: I can book the next 1st class flight out of town anywhere Air tran or affiliate Tran west, fly NONSTOP EVEN if wanted........

For 30% commission on the results, PM me and if you have a complaint, I will get you what you deserve as well...........

They are a very hard company to deal with. I am a professional litigator though. To the poster that quoted above:conf used:, this whole thread has been about Airtran's particular FA's lack of skills to perform the easy job she has, or probably HAD; NOW.

As a side note, if I were on the flight that the FA said the swear words and slid down the shoot, you could count on me getting RT 1st Class anywhere AGAIN!! (Not a $25 discount code)
It's all in the negotiating.......................Good luck to all!! </div> </div>\n"; } </div> </div>\n"; } </div> </div>\n"; }

[LuLou]

Originally Posted by Muffinman

To the OP I say hats off to you for getting justice from the airline. By now you would have realized that this site is full of deadbeats who make no useful contribution to advising the OPs how to deal with their situations. Just look how many of them spent their contributions doubting you and focusing on non-issues like whether Air tran had cameras or whether the thread was Jetblue or Air tran. As a professional litigator myself I know how to get justice from an airline who has wronged you. They almost always shy away from a legal battle. Yet the sad position is that it is hardly worth throwing your pearls before the swine who contribute on this site.

Look at Jetliner oink oink – Swine Number 1. He is not buying this one. Did you ask him to buy anything? Whether the airline had cameras does not bear on the question in point which is whether the FA destroyed your pictures. Look at Jimworcs oink oink – Swine Number 2. He is having doubts about the veracity of your posts. On what basis does he doubt the facts of your complaint. Look at Mars 6423 oink oink – Swine Number 3. He has a friend who got off a Continental flight where a FA was touched but there were no cameras. So what does that have to do with whether the FA had the right to destroy your pictures. Look at airplanegod oink oink – Swine Number 4. His problem is that this is a Southwest site. Look at Judge oink oink – Swine Number 5. He came on the thread only to laugh then went back to his pigsty in Thailand.

It is pointless to cast your pearls before these swine. They are ignoramuses that contributed nothing to your complaint. What the Administrator should do is to encourage people like you to offer pointers to passengers as to how to succeed in your complaints and to get compensation and throw these doofuses off their site.

A paid help board is a great Idea!! No doubt there would be enough cases!! PM Me if you see a successful opportunity.