[Stupfied]

Great week on United.

Sunday departure from EWR to SFO, the flight is only half-full and all of the passengers are in rear of the plane. When they closed the doors, passengers began moving up to the empty rows. THe flight attendant promptly informed everyone that they would be required to pay the $30 upcharge for economy plus. So everyone stays in the back with 3 to a row.

Tuesday departure from SFO to EWR, the opposite is true. The front portion of the plane is full. The captian announces that the flight will not push away from the gate untill 15 people in the first 15 rows agree to move to behind row 22. But there are no refunds for those who agree to move.

The most ridiculous pricing policy ever,

[xjcaptain]

I think you are confusing weight and balance issues with revenue issues. The only reason a captain would move people aft is to get the center of gravity of the aircraft within limits. With a light load, the balance on many aircraft is too far forward to be within limits, and may require moving people and/or freight to achieve the proper balance. As far as the first flight, are you upset that you were not GIVEN something you did not pay for? Try the same logic at an auto dealership. Buy the cheapest used car on the lot, then demand the shiny new one for the same price because they happen to have a bunch of those that have not been sold.

[stonecold_1981]

Originally Posted by xjcaptain

I think you are confusing weight and balance issues with revenue issues. The only reason a captain would move people aft is to get the center of gravity of the aircraft within limits. With a light load, the balance on many aircraft is too far forward to be within limits, and may require moving people and/or freight to achieve the proper balance. As far as the first flight, are you upset that you were not GIVEN something you did not pay for? Try the same logic at an auto dealership. Buy the cheapest used car on the lot, then demand the shiny new one for the same price because they happen to have a bunch of those that have not been sold.

Such a myopic explanation, xjcaptain! The OP is not complaining about not getting a seat in front of the plane. The issue is given the weight/balance - and - revenue issues, why should the airline NOT refund the Economy Plus fares (i.e refund the diff between E+ and E)? I think that is a perfectly legitimate question. If a business class passenger is downgraded to coach, wouldn't the airline refund the fare difference (even if the passenger was downgraded due to weight/balance issues)?

[Matt_FLL]

Xjcaptain, I agree that the captain’s decision was not based on earning revenue.
But don’t you agree that those passengers deserve a refund? They paid for a service that was never rendered.

[xjcaptain]

How do you know that refunds for these unknown passengers were not given after arrival? What was the point of discussion regarding the first flight if not to complain about not getting something that was not purchased?

[Matt_FLL]

XJCaptain: You pointed out that it’s unfair for a passenger to expect something he or she did not pay for. That's true in any industry and I agree 100%. Why bother to mention it on an airline complaint forum. This is a very good point.

Using the same logic, we would also agree that you should get something that you DID pay for.

You were questioning if the passengers obtained a refund after arrival—so I think that further implies that you agree with that notion. However, your comment is suggesting that you don’t think that is worth discussing because we don't know if the passengers got a refund or not.

I want to know more about that. You’ve worked in the industry and have a lot of experience with the conflict between operations and customer service. I’m sure most airline employees do not feel that a passenger should just “suck it up” in this type of situation. Further, as a business road warrior, I know that providing refunds at the airport are very hard. They have to get refunded in the original form of payment. Just imagine--some people paid in cash! I couldn't imagine a gate agent validating your boarding pass and handing out cash upon arrival. What a mess!

I think it would be unfair (and unethical) to make every passenger write a letter to the overwhelmed Customer Relations department and wait for a response and refund. Hopefully that's not what happened.

Your view on this is especially interesting too as you pointed out that the captain was not motivated by revenue. Many people wouldn't have known about the weight balance that you described It's an interesting topic, and I really do believe that it's worth discussing here on this forum. These types of conflicts between airlines and passengers make the airways hostile on both ends. This is our opportunity to discuss those and understand each other better.

[jimworcs]

The OP made it clear...no refunds.... This is wrong. The airline should be forced to pay compensation for the loss of amenity

[xjcaptain]

If they paid for the seat and were moved they should be given a refund. The only way to do that would be after the flight because the weight and balance calculations can not be done until the passengers and bags have been loaded. Either that or deplane everybody set out the tickets then leave hours later...Not a realistic solution. I find it highly unlikely that the op knew every passenger that was moved, the fare that was paid, and weather or not a refund was issued.

[Mchag]

Originally Posted by xjcaptain

I think you are confusing weight and balance issues with revenue issues. The only reason a captain would move people aft is to get the center of gravity of the aircraft within limits. With a light load, the balance on many aircraft is too far forward to be within limits, and may require moving people and/or freight to achieve the proper balance. As far as the first flight, are you upset that you were not GIVEN something you did not pay for? Try the same logic at an auto dealership. Buy the cheapest used car on the lot, then demand the shiny new one for the same price because they happen to have a bunch of those that have not been sold.

-- Yes,because they will often sell them to you at the same price. THe markup is so high that they would still make a profit and lower their inventory, which they want to do. Good suggestion. As of the airline, don't fly them again. That is just rude and against any notion of customer service at all.