[dorianrolf]

On a recent flight to Hawaii while boarding we saw that the aisle seat was occupied by a huge man weighing approximately 450 pounds. The armrest for one of our seats was actually behind this man's back. I immediately made eye contact with the stewardess who rolled her eyes and shrugged. When my husband tried to talk to her she told him to take his seat and that the plane was full. This was a six hour flight and the man was pressed against my husbands body for the entire flight. I told another stewardess how uncomfortable my husband was and asked if she could do anything and she said no. I think there was a seat open in first class but she would not move him. It was horrible. The staff said my only recourse was to contact Delta.com. and that the man should have purchased two seats. I am so frustrated. Customer service has been non existent and there is no way to talk to an actual human being. I will never fly Delta again. What a horrible airline.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Those bearing the "Airline Sympathizer," "Airline Employee," etc. label here may possibly disagree with this post and argue an airline has a legal right to provide only a half, to three-quarters, of a seat.

Regardless of what Delta, the "Sympathizers," and other airlines may say most Small Claims Courts will agree with the argument that Delta, in this case, had an obligation to provide a FULL seat. Unfortunately, if the only witnesses you have is yourself and your husband proving your case may be an uphill battle at best. At a minimum you should mail a complaint to the Aviation Consumer section of the US Dept. of Transportation. Mail a "carbon copy" of said complaint to Delta Air.

In the event you DO have some evidence, beyond yourself and your husband's testimony, such as pictures, or signed statements of other passengers, then a Small Claims action may be worth a shot. Delta "mainline" (non-commuter) aircraft should serve, at least, one airport in your home state. In the event you obtained a judgment in your favor, and Delta refuses to pay, there would be assets (cash, equipment, etc.) you could have seized to satisfy the judgment.

Whether you have an option to leave the aircraft, prior to the doors being closed, and not suffer the loss of the value of your ticket, remains to be seen. A former airline employee on here suggests that IS an option. On the other hand I fail to see how, under such a circumstance, it can be said that one is NOT at the mercy of a gate agent and is left with little to no recourse if the gate agent refuses to cooperate. It would be interesting to see what kind of answer, if any, one would get if this question (leaving the aircraft prior to departure) were posed, in writing, to Delta or any other airline.

In Delta's eyes you are supposed to consider yourself extremely lucky in the event you are offered, or given, what I consider to be worthless travel vouchers.

[Silent Bob]

This is an all too common occurence that affects all airlines, not just Delta. the fact that your husband was the odd man out this time around, well there's little to not much else you can do. The thing is this is a touchy subject, because obese people are allowed to fly whether we like it or not, they are in fact still human beings. Some airlines make people of size purchase two seats, but in this case, we don't know when this guy bought his ticket and if he bought it at the time when seats were limited. Maybe it was a last minute ticket for the big guy, maybe he tried to buy two tickets but was told no dice. Maybe he knew his size would inconvenience others and requested to move to first but was told he could not. You see what i'm getting at? And about the first class seat, since you said "you think there was a first class seat", doesn't mean there was one since you also stated the flight was full. Best Delta will do is probably give you a voucher, but there's really nothing the airlines can do about it.

I don't see this as a case of bad customer service; this is merely the case of being the odd man out, like sitting next to a crying baby or someone's emotional pet. Been there in all three cases and its never pleasant, you simply need an mp3 player full of your favorite tunes and immerse yourself in your world while staying out of theirs.

[dorianrolf]

My mother is an obese person so I have sympathy with the condition of obesity. I have no issue with obese people, I just don't want obese strangers pressed against me for 6 hours on a plane. The response I got online was that the man should have been identified by the flight crew and told he had to purchase another seat. By the way, the man's wife, who was approximately the size of my mother (300 pounds) sat on an aisle seat in another row. May you sit between them happily listening to your ipod on your next flight.

[Gromit801]

This would be Delta screwing up. Again.

He should have been identified as needing a second seat at check-in or boarding by the CSA's.

[PHXFlyer]

Most airlines have an "armrest rule." If the person cannot fit in the seat with both armrests fully down then they should be required to purchase two seats. Furthermore, it's not the flight attendant's job to enforce this. Grpmit is absolutely correct that the issue should have been dealt with bu a ticket or gate agent before the man was even allowed to board the plane. I remember an episode of "Airline" where there was some doubt if a passenger would fit in the seat and be able to lower both armrests. The CSA lead escorted the passenger onto the plane before anyone else boarded and indeed he did fit (barely) and was not required to purchase an additional seat. Also if the flight isn't completely booked and the person of size can be accommodated with an empty seat next to him then the additional seat purchase isn't required either but with capacity cuts and fuller planes this probably isn't an option all of the time.

I mentioned before that it isn't the flight attendant's responsibility. For future reference if one finds themselves seated next to someone who is spilling over into your seat take the following steps. Politely excuse yourself and get up and head towards the rear of the airplane. (Feign needing to use the lav or a glass of water for a motion sickness pill.) Politely ask the flight attendant in the rear galley to summon a gate agent. If they refuse, tell him or her the situation and ask again to see a gate agent about the issue. If they refuse to call an agent then ask if you could go back up the jetway to speak with one. If all else fails then demand to speak with the captain or first officer.

Once your issue is addressed if they won't re-seat you, or the person of size (POS), or don't require the POS to buy a second seat (or there isn't one to sell) then ask if you can be accommodated in another cabin (business and/or first class) or, if you have some flexibility with your travel time, on a later flight.

[dorianrolf]

Thanks everyone. At least I will know what to do if this should happen again. I did think about taking a photo but did not want to embarrass the man. Delta has now offered two vouchers for 75 dollars, one in each of our names, which is about what it cost to transport our lugguge.

[jimworcs]

This is not about the obesity of the passenger, this is about the failure of Delta to address their customer's needs. The Gate Agent failed, but so did the Flight Attendant. It is ridiculous to suggest that it is not the flight attendants duty to attend to this. If the person is encroaching so significantly into the seat of the next passenger I consider that to be an unsafe condition. This could create problems for the passenger in terms of DVT as they would have such restricted movement. If there was a seat available, even if it was in a higher class, the FA should have used her discretion to upgrade the passenger. It is pathetic that FA will exercise their power to exclude and humiliate passengers, but not to benefit a passenger. The passenger is entitled to expect his seat is not encroached. The SouthWest approach is the most sensible. If the armrest cannot be put down, then two seats must be purchased. That is objective, fair and doesn't humiliate either the obese passenger or the poor passenger who has to sit next to them. I am pretty porky myself, so I know of what I speak.

[PHXFlyer]

While aircraft is at the gate with the boarding door open it is absolutely the gate agents' responsibility. The FA's will not re-seat anyone because they do not yet have the manifest and have no idea how many have yet to board and which seats, if any, will be vacant or if seats have been intentionally left vacant for wight and balance. Of course if the matter is brought to a FA's attention they should call to get a gate agent involved. If they forget or refuse to do so you should escalate to the FA in charge and/or request to speak to the captain or FO.

[The_Judge]

Those bearing the "Airline Sympathizer," "Airline Employee," etc. label here may possibly disagree with this post and argue an airline has a legal right to provide only a half, to three-quarters, of a seat.

Because maybe, just maybe, deep down you know what the right thing here is. I will admit that it certainly wouldn't be desirable to seated next to a person who spills over into my seat. That said, dealing with people of large girth is very delicate. How does an airline employee (making peanuts and probably not caring because they don't actually work for said airline) deal with this? The gate agent can't see how they flow into another seat cuz they are busy at the gate. The flight attendant most likely will dwarf the passenger in question so she ain't gonna help. It's just an all-around bad situation that will end with someone being upset. Unfortunately, it was the OP. I guess, take the compensation, move on and hope that when you fly WN, it won't happen to you then cuz you can choose your own seats. Oh yeah, they don't fly to Hawaii.
Seriously, from a former gate agent's POV, my apologies for having to put up with all that went with that 5 1/2 hour flight from Seattle. It was probably pretty crappy. Hopefully, the trip back was better and future trips will not include someone taking 1/2 your seat.

[jimworcs]

Sorry Troy but that is just not good enough. Southwest has a perfectly reasonable criteria for this, (armrest can go fully down) and the airline could have a print out which explains their policy which could be handed to the obese passenger. This would de-personalise the issue and make it less difficult for the staff to explain the process. This would allow it to be dealt with at the check in desk.

This is only an issue on completely full flights. In flights with some empty seats (the vast majority), it can be resolved simply by leaving the middle seat for the obese passenger vacant. However, when a passenger is faced with this problem, the FA, and Gate Agent have a responsibility to help and their failure to do so, even if they are paid "peanuts" or don't work directly for the airline is not a reason for not doing so.

[The_Judge]

Not to take the light off the OP but let's look at Southwest's policy, according to the tv show. The guy they brought down fit in the seat, per the CSA, they fit. That is degrading and humliating for that passenger and rightfully, because there ended up being no issue, has a complaint with the airline. If each "large" passenger was made to test check their seat first, that could lead to huge (pardon the pun) issues when boarding an aircraft, especially in the (mid) U.S. We might need a lawyer at every gate. I'm gonna go on record as saying there is no good solution. Hard to tell a person to buy another seat at boarding time and hard to tell a person sitting next to a large person that there is nothing they can do about it. So, when a flight is full, what would be a good solution? I don't have one.

[AADFW]

So sorry to hear about this uncomfortable experience. One thing that nobody has bothered to mention is the seat size itself. This is another instance where some form or fashion of regulation (yes, that means higher airfares) would be most helpful. I am very tall and find the pitch on most aircraft extremely uncomfortable -- in fact, I don't even fit on several commuter aircraft unless I'm in the exit row. Seats need to be sized more realistically; that means wider and further apart.

AA management did the right thing years ago when it attempted to differentiate with "more room in coach." Unfortunately U.S. airline consumers made it clear - as they always have since deregulation - they couldn't care less about the extra room and that price was the single most important factor. I often wonder if the commodity consumer would be actually willing to travel in the cargo compartment if it meant saving $20 each way. Probably so.

[The_Judge]

There we go! Wider seats. That's a start. It ain't gonna fly. I can tell you a little story about just the opposite. The airline I worked for (wont say the name but it rhymes with Northwest) configured two 747-200's for exclusive use on NRT-HNL (Tokyo-Honolulu) routes. They were called the beach configuration. 454 passengers. If I remember right, 420 in coach, 34 in business. Normal 747 seated less than 400. They could do it the other way, removing seats for the U.S. sized passenger but that would mean less revenue. Option out the window then.

[AADFW]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

There we go! Wider seats. That's a start. It ain't gonna fly.

Did you read my post? I'm advocating governmental regulation of seat size and pitch so that all carriers operating to/from/within the U.S. can compete on the same basis of seating. That may mean lower industry revenue overall, but would not decrease profit margins on a percentage basis after the initial compliance.

[JR in Orlando]

There are wider seats - they are called first class. This man knew he was grossly obese, but decided to fly even though he knew by buying only one seat he would intrude on the adjacent seat. Could we say self-centered? The airlines should make clear on-line and elsewhere, that if you exceed the width of the seat, you will pay for an extra seat. Why should everyone else pay for the extra cost of a government mandated wider seat, when the obese person is the problem?

[The_Judge]

Yeah, I read your post. Now we're gonna have the size of the seat regulated? Oh brother.........where will it end? I know someone will have an answer.
I'll start though......will there be first class, fat a$$ and regular class? Be realistic, making the seats bigger for a minority of the population?
Gate agents have enough to police, they shouldn't have to worry if someone is too fat to fly.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Now we're gonna have the size of the seat regulated?

Yes, but not for people of size. A 31", or less, seat pitch, on a non-stop flight of 3 hours or more, is probably unhealthy. I suspect one could find doctors/medical evidence to support this. Deep vein thrombosis, or "economy class syndrome," has been associated with the issue of seat pitch. As I've said in previous posts rules like this will cause air fares to go up. However, prior to deregulation, those who wanted to travel on the cheap--because they had to, or for other reasons--used Greyhound.

you know what the right thing here is.

If possible, allowing a customer affected by a person of size to leave the aircraft without risking the loss of the value of their ticket or being forced to pay "change" or other fees. If the doors have been closed, then giving the person a CASH refund equal to 50% of the value of the ticket if it's round trip (with the remaining portion still usable), or the full value if it's one-way. If enough tickets had to be refunded, ground staff would be more alert to people of size and, yes, there might be some discrete walks down the jetway.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

For future reference if one finds themselves seated next to someone who is spilling over into your seat take the following steps. Politely excuse yourself and get up and head towards the rear of the airplane. (Feign needing to use the lav or a glass of water for a motion sickness pill.) Politely ask the flight attendant in the rear galley to summon a gate agent. If they refuse, tell him or her the situation and ask again to see a gate agent about the issue. If they refuse to call an agent then ask if you could go back up the jetway to speak with one. If all else fails then demand to speak with the captain or first officer.

Depending on the airline this may be good advice. However, I'd like to see what would happen to the person voicing this type of concern if the airline was American or United.

[dorianrolf]

LOL Butch, would I have been arrested if I did that on United or American? The flight attendant on Delta asked me six times (she actually screamed it the last two) if I wanted a snack because I had decided to ignore her after the lack of service and futility of any resolution. I was a little worried she might take matters further.

[justme]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

A 31", or less, seat pitch, on a non-stop flight of 3 hours or more, is probably unhealthy. I suspect one could find doctors/medical evidence to support this. Deep vein thrombosis, or "economy class syndrome," has been associated with the issue of seat pitch.

I'm sure they could, but then again the airlines will have doctors and experts that say the exact opposite. It all comes down to who's "experts" you believe. We know who you would believe, we know who I would believe, lets agree to disagree.


The other thing I have a problem with about this whole "make the seats wider" business is this: A NORMAL, HEALTHY, individual WILL fit in any current airline seat with no problems what-so-ever. I'm not saying they will all be comfortable, or you will have enuf room to stretch out like you're in your lazyboy, but then again, that was not the issue in this complaint. The issue boiled down to sit WIDTH, not pitch, not leg room. Why should the airlines have to suffer losses to revenue so that the rest of the world (particularly the US) can continue to be overweight and unhealthy. Why should airlines, or for that matter, any mass transit system, accommodate the obesity epidemic that plagues this world.

[AADFW]

What really blows my mind about the debate in this thread is that everyone's talking about girth but not at all height.

Originally Posted by justme

The other thing I have a problem with about this whole "make the seats wider" business is this: A NORMAL, HEALTHY, individual WILL fit in any current airline seat with no problems what-so-ever. I'm not saying they will all be comfortable, or you will have enuf room to stretch out like you're in your lazyboy...

Your ignorance is astounding and offensive. I am well over 6'4" and I literally will NOT fit in the standard seat of an E145 and several other commuter aircraft. In fact, on the few occasions when I have flown those aircraft the FA has had to ask an exit row passenger to switch seats with me. When seated in a standard economy seat on most larger aircraft my knees are literally crammed into the tray table of the seat in front of me for the duration of the flight. My employment options are even limited because I must demand business class on long-haul international flights to ensure that I'll have proper legroom.

At minimum, exit rows should be reserved for people over a certain height. No matter how much weight I lose or gain, there's nothing I can ever do about how long my legs are. Frankly, I don't understand why this hasn't been more of an industry topic than the POS issues.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by AADFW

What really blows my mind about the debate in this thread is that everyone's talking about girth but not at all height.

Frankly, I don't understand why this hasn't been more of an industry topic than the POS issues.

Actually some of the newer seats being installed on some airlines (Continental and Delta both come to mind) are taking that into consideration. Although the seat pitch is unchanged the new seats are thinner and the seat cushion actually slides forward slightly when the seat is reclined. (Much like a Barclonger or Laz-E-Boy recliner) The thinner seat and the forward motion actually create a bit (albeit a tiny bit) more legroom. I know it doesn't solve your issue with the regional jets (even I at just over 5'10" feel cramped in those seats) and may not even help too much on mainline aircraft but it is a slight improvement.

[justme]

What really blows my mind about the debate in this thread is that everyone's talking about girth but not at all height.

Your ignorance is astounding and offensive. I am well over 6'4" and I literally will NOT fit in the standard seat of an E145 and several other commuter aircraft

Astounding and offensive? Man, I hope no one ever calls you ugly... I am also a very tall person, 6'2" to be exact. Like I said in my original post, the seat you are in may not be as comfortable as your living room recliner. The reason height was not mentioned in this post was because it was not an issue in this occasion.

on the few occasions when I have flown those aircraft the FA has had to ask an exit row passenger to switch seats with me.

Strange, considering that there are aircraft that exist in which the exit row actually has LESS legroom than the rest of the rows.

My employment options are even limited because I must demand business class on long-haul international flights to ensure that I'll have proper legroom.

No, you're employment options are limited because you are DEMANDING something that not all employers offers because it is a luxury, plain and simple. You are being high maintenance.

At minimum, exit rows should be reserved for people over a certain height.

What if no one on the flight is tall enuf to qualify? When you make a reservation should it be a requirement to enter your height? What if you're a 7'5" Russian basketball player, and don't speak english? Where do you sit then? What if you are 6'9" and are deaf? What then?

In addition, the overall size of the general population in terms of height and weight (even when in proportion) is considerably bigger than it even was 30 years ago

We're larger because we, as a human race, are exponentially more unhealthy and obese than we were 30 years ago. Maybe we should consider that a problem that is bigger than airlines not catering to obesity.

[dorianrolf]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

Yeah, I read your post. Now we're gonna have the size of the seat regulated? Oh brother.........where will it end? I know someone will have an answer.
I'll start though......will there be first class, fat a$$ and regular class? Be realistic, making the seats bigger for a minority of the population?
Gate agents have enough to police, they shouldn't have to worry if someone is too fat to fly.

All I can say about this is that Americans with Disabilities have managed to have me set up my entire small business, which is a hair salon so that a person in a wheel chair can work there. This means that all electrical outlets had to be raised and all work counters and sinks had to be lowered. Everyone who works in my salon will soon be in a wheel chair because we are tall and have to accommodate an imaginary hairstylist in a wheel chair. I do not see how the airlines should not have a few seats for a POS where they can keep their dignity for the price of say, a third of another seat with seat belt extenders provided.