[MAAF]

I made the mistake of volunteering to get bumped of my US Airways flight in exchange for a voucher. When I go and try to use the voucher I find out that there are so many restrictions on it that only flights I can use it on require me to 1) use the voucher and 2) pay more in cash than what the flight costs on US Airways website. A MASSIVE SCAM! I you use this airline (which I recommend you don’t) don’t be duped into getting compensated with a voucher. They are worthless.

[PHXFlyer]

Never say never. People do use those vouchers successfully and they can knock a significant amount off the cost of a future trip.

I just used one a few months ago to book travel over the Thanksgiving weekend. It was either a round-trip ticket to anywhere US Airways flies but in a specific economy fare class (capacity controlled) or $400 off. The fare I found online (usairways.com) was the same fare the telephone agent found so it was exactly what I expected.

Before calling to book with the voucher you should go through the entire process to purchase the ticket up to the point of entering your CC#. It will display the fare basis (ie. SXA3NJ2Y,WXA7NJ2) which you should give to the reservation agent if there is any discrepancy in the fare you see online and the fare quoted over the phone. Keep in mind that the voucher is dollars off the base fare so the segment taxes, 9/11 fees and passenger facilities taxes as well as departure taxes and other fees for international flights will be added on. On a trip to Mexico or Europe those taxes can easily add up to $75 - $100 per person.

[airhead]

Vouchers are useful if know how to use them. The airline counts on the customer to get frustrated with the process they have created and give up. But just like buying any airline ticket, some time is required to read. Time is money.

[MAAF]

That is the whole point. All of these restrictions and limitations are put on by the very people issuing and preventing you from using the vouchers. Why would they put someone that has 1) booked and paid for a ticket on their airline & 2) helped them out of a jam by willingly giving up their seat, through so much aggravation? It is 100% in the airlines power to say, "We thank you for being a customer and helping us out when we needed you to do so. Here is a ticket you can use anytime (up to a $ limit)." Instead they put you through hours of aggravation and or make you learn the system that even most of their employees can't explain. It is nonsense. I'll never get another voucher from US Air because I will never fly them again. Southwest has never put me through this. Vouchers I have gotten from them I was easily able to use. I didn't have to "learn their system." I found the flight I wanted online. I called to make a reservation to use the voucher, I easily got the flight. No problem. Maybe there is a correlation between airlines that don't treat their customers with contempt and airlines that don't go through bankruptcy.

[airhead]

I am not sure that correlation is accurate. AA did not go bankrupt but I went though some deceptive practices that caused me to quit that awful job while I worked there. I am not sure it it was the company or management. Probably both. Some people here doubt my tenure with the company but the really bad experiences motivated me to find this site and try to help others (employees and passengers) with information. Knowledge is power.

[jimworcs]

AA may not have gone backrupt, but they certainly benefit from considerable government subsidy not available to some other airlines.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

AA may not have gone backrupt, but they certainly benefit from considerable government subsidy not available to some other airlines.

Prove your statement please.

[AirlinesMustPay]

Originally Posted by airhead

I went though some deceptive practices that caused me to quit that awful job while I worked there.

I just love to see posts like these.

One day if ever meet up with Mr Airhead, we may have some useful information to share with each other. Although this thread is about US Air, I could use some of that info about AA in claims against them.

I dont know if AA did get government subsidies, and I would have no difficulties in learning that they did. After all, I want them to have money to pay out in claims. Why would I want them to be bankrupt?

[jimworcs]

Ok, thread drift I know, but I will offer an answer.

1. AA claimed subsidy from the US Government to pay for insurance costs following the 911 attacks. The costs of airlines all over the world for insurance were substantially increased, but US airlines claimed subsidy from the US government, subsidies which were not available to other competitor airlines.

2. The US Government requires all government employees to travel on US based airlines. This protectionist measure ensures that US airlines are protected from competition on many routes. Comparable measures are not in place in other countries. For example, on the key US/UK transatlantic routes, some of the most travelled routes in the world. The UK government requires their employees to get "best value" and has no prohibition on the use of US airlines. US government employees on the other hand are prohibited from travelling on non US carriers. On some routes in the world, this can amount to almost 15% of the total seats sold on the route, a significant government cross subsidy.

3. In the US, there is considerable subsidy for the provision of infrastructure costs such as Air traffic control, airport infrastructure, airport security, etc. These are costs which are borne by the airlines themselves in many other jurisdictions.

This is just a few.. I could give you loads.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Ok, thread drift I know, but I will offer an answer.

1. AA claimed subsidy from the US Government to pay for insurance costs following the 911 attacks. The costs of airlines all over the world for insurance were substantially increased, but US airlines claimed subsidy from the US government, subsidies which were not available to other competitor airlines.

This was a one-time payout and was made to almost every major US airline in operation at the time. Most of the financial assistance the airlines received post 9/11 were in the form of government loans which were re-paid. I don't want to get off on a tangent and start discussing conspiracy theories, etc., but I believe had the US government not made these one-time payments the airlines could have sued as it was discovered later that the intelligence and warnings were there but the US government simp[ly didn't "connect the dots" to be able to see the big picture.

2. The US Government requires all government employees to travel on US based airlines. This protectionist measure ensures that US airlines are protected from competition on many routes. Comparable measures are not in place in other countries. For example, on the key US/UK transatlantic routes, some of the most travelled routes in the world. The UK government requires their employees to get "best value" and has no prohibition on the use of US airlines. US government employees on the other hand are prohibited from travelling on non US carriers. On some routes in the world, this can amount to almost 15% of the total seats sold on the route, a significant government cross subsidy.

Why wouldn't the US government require it's employees to travel on US based airlines? Their salaries are paid by the citizens of the United States. Why would any citizen want their tax money to benefit a foreign corporation or government when travel on a US airline benefits the US economy. As for the "best value" rules that other governments use, the US government has pre-negotiated fares with the various US based airlines for travel between specific city pairs. Those fares are negotiated annually.

3. In the US, there is considerable subsidy for the provision of infrastructure costs such as Air traffic control, airport infrastructure, airport security, etc. These are costs which are borne by the airlines themselves in many other jurisdictions.

Wrong. These are all paid for by fees collected by the airline on each ticket. The US segment fee goes to maintain and improve ATC. The "9/11" fee goes to fund the TSA and the passenger facility charges go directly to the airports.

This is just a few.. I could give you loads.

The only government subsidies paid directly to an airline is under the Essential Air Service program. This is a subsidy that keeps scheduled service at smaller airports that would normally not have service since it would not be profitable for an airline to do so. You specifically said AA receives subsidies. Well, my dear Jim, I consulted the list of EAS airports in the United States and which airlines receive subsidies to provide scheduled service at each one. Guess how many EAS airports AA or American Eagle provides service to and gets government money to do so? ZERO.

[jimworcs]

So you are agreeing that AA did claim the 911 monies? The reasons are irrelevant. I am correct that they received goverment subsidy and you know perfectly well that these were not offered because of any madcap internet conspiracy theories. We can agree to agree on this one.

We appear to agree also on the second point. You don't deny they receive the subsidy.. you just justify it. Fine.. but it is a subsidy. It distorts the free market, which is often championed by the US, except when they don't like it!

On the infrastructure issue.. the airlines pay fees for the operational costs, but do not pay for the capital costs. There are also significant other hidden subsidies... for example, the US government pays US carriers including AA to have their aircraft "available" in times of national emergency. Curiously, they have never called on the aircraft, even at times of national need; indeed when they have required aircraft for troop movements related to the operations in Afghanistan and the Middle East they paid again in the form of charters.

I am pleased you agree that they receive subsidies.. and am happy to agree to disagree on whether such subsidies are justified.

[airhead]

If you want to help me you have to understand where I am coming from and have a burning desire to change the way most airlines operate and treat customers. Coming to this site is not enough but it is a start. I have dedicated myself to learning many key things outside the scope of just being an employee. I am studying other aspects and it will take me years but I am going to make an impact even if it might be small.

Please read this account very carefully and with an open mind. These problems effect more than just passengers.

I would have stayed with the job under the premise of keeping my enemies closer than my friends but the job was killing me literally. The hours were unbearable some weeks...the passenger verbal attacks about all kinds of things including the new fees were stressful (2008). I understand being ****** but it is not the agent who creates the fee rules. And to top it off, my manger was rarely present during the day to day operations and when she had to show up she was not happy. A real "bitch session" was in order.

I was given the official duty to rebook people, take care of ticket problems, handle customer complaints, answer many delay questions from irate passengers, inspect boarding passes, perform calculations, create delayed bag files, search the aircraft when someone forgot their cell phone (which is next to impossible to get an accurate seat number from the passenger because they forgot and lost the boarding pass), if someone mentioned a bad word like "bomb" even in a joking manner I had to deboard the entire flight and start over, put up with passenger delay concerns while trying to fill out a police report. And this is just the tip of the iceberg!

Let me continue that my manager refused me the official training that required 6 weeks of being away from "work." That means I was learning the computer commands, ticket rules, customer complaints, cargo rules, acceptance of certain dangerous goods like dry ice, accommodating stand by, figuring where to put a passenger with a lap child and all the ticket rules with it the hard way. In my opinion safety should not be left to trial and error!

The computer commands are difficult and I am a very very computer savvy person. It requires knowing how type an an entry like ( I changed the example to protect the security which is always important but you will get the idea)

GT32 SMITH1/3 LAXBOS18OCTNN1 LAX PIT BOS 0010104858383885

This would be just one entry to check in one person..if the passenger had other things like a passport to be checked or if the id was in need of checking then a another entry that was about as twice as long was needed.

If the passenger did not tell you something that was important like "I need to sit next to so and so since I am flying with them"...that would require another entry and checking the seat map...it goes on and on for special needs.

Don't get me started on Air Marshals who are armed. That requires more special entries and they have to be on time and for the most part they are but if their is a really long line that is difficult. I hated delays just like a passenger did but I had to stop for stuff like this going over the bible of entries to get them checked in which took time. I don't blame the airline for this but I do blame my manger for not having enough trained persons on duty to take care of this in a timely manner. It is important for commerce.

In addition to complicated command entries, I had to understand all the ticket rules and codes for the command entries to work. How am I to know this stuff without training? I did the best I could but I was on the phone most of the time trying to find another agent to help me whom was surprised a little that I was in the position I was but did not know what to do.

The following was the ice on the cake for me.

One morning I reported "manditory"..a word my boss liked to use...to work at 8am on my day off after getting off the previous night at 11pm from working since 9am that same day. I was tired and hungry and decided to stop somewhere to get something to eat. When I walked in the airport with my bag of food, the line of passengers was about 70 or 80 people thick with ONE agent working the line.

"Where is my boss who called me in who is supposed to help during times like this?" I asked myself...

I decided to eat my breakfast since that was more important than anything else to me.. I was really tired and hungry...it had already been a long week. 2 days before I was scheduled to work 5am to 1pm but I got off at 830 pm because of the ongoing weather problem that was relentless for nearly 3 months straight everyday.

I was pulling so much over time that it would have been great if I had the time to spend the money but I barely had time to figure out what to eat much less pay my personal bills.

After spending 10 minutes eating my meal I walked to the counter and was greeted by woman who wanted to ship a live animal (bird.) I never had this before so naturally I was asking the (already tired and frustrated) agent next to me what to do.

"Check focus!" is what I was told. I did not know how to use focus. Focus is the part of the reservation program that tells agents the rules and entries for every circumstance an agent will encounter on duty. The problem with it is it requires the knowledge of command entries to use it. I have to know how to use the computer to know how to use the computer in other words.

With animals, special rules apply like temperature requirements at every connecting city apply. Food, water, declarations from the vet are also required. Try figuring this stuff out when minutes are left for a timely departure is stressful.

My manger called me into her office the next day and chewed me out for eating before I went to work. I chewed her back. At this point I did not care if I lost my job. The conditions were unbearable already. I made my terms and walked out. I kept my job but it was not easy.

2007 still had weather problems and it did not stop until the next year.

I ended up quitting and that was on of the happiest days of my life.

I have so many other accounts but I will leave you to this one. If you really want to make a difference you have to share what you know about the laws. I want to improve the working conditions for employees and improve the product offered by the airline. It is possible. Government legislation makes it hard but I will not give up.

I know of so many government officials and employees who have "cush" positions with the airlines and they take advantage of the benefits and that pisses me off because they have more weight than an employee does. I am not sure what they do in many circumstances but I am sure they are visiting relatives every few weeks to the same city on our dime.

I am willing to bet my reputation on it.

[airhead]

If you want to help me you have to understand where I am coming from and have a burning desire to change the way most airlines operate and treat customers. Coming to this site is not enough but it is a start. I have dedicated myself to learning many key things outside the scope of just being an employee. I am studying other aspects and it will take me years but I am going to make an impact even if it might be small.

Please read this account very carefully and with an open mind. These problems effect more than just passengers.

I would have stayed with the job under the premise of keeping my enemies closer than my friends but the job was killing me literally. The hours were unbearable some weeks...the passenger verbal attacks about all kinds of things including the new fees were stressful (2008). I understand being ****** but it is not the agent who creates the fee rules. And to top it off, my manger was rarely present during the day to day operations and when she had to show up she was not happy. A real "bitch session" was in order.

I was given the official duty to rebook people, take care of ticket problems, handle customer complaints, answer many delay questions from irate passengers, inspect boarding passes, perform calculations, create delayed bag files, search the aircraft when someone forgot their cell phone (which is next to impossible to get an accurate seat number from the passenger because they forgot and lost the boarding pass), if someone mentioned a bad word like "bomb" even in a joking manner I had to deboard the entire flight and start over, put up with passenger delay concerns while trying to fill out a police report. And this is just the tip of the iceberg!

Let me continue that my manager refused me the official training that required 6 weeks of being away from "work." That means I was learning the computer commands, ticket rules, customer complaints, cargo rules, acceptance of certain dangerous goods like dry ice, accommodating stand by, figuring where to put a passenger with a lap child and all the ticket rules with it the hard way. In my opinion safety should not be left to trial and error!

The computer commands are difficult and I am a very very computer savvy person. It requires knowing how type an an entry like ( I changed the example to protect the security which is always important but you will get the idea)

GT32 SMITH1/3 LAXBOS18OCTNN1 LAX PIT BOS 0010104858383885

This would be just one entry to check in one person..if the passenger had other things like a passport to be checked or if the id was in need of checking then a another entry that was about as twice as long was needed.

If the passenger did not tell you something that was important like "I need to sit next to so and so since I am flying with them"...that would require another entry and checking the seat map...it goes on and on for special needs.

Don't get me started on Air Marshals who are armed. That requires more special entries and they have to be on time and for the most part they are but if their is a really long line that is difficult. I hated delays just like a passenger did but I had to stop for stuff like this going over the bible of entries to get them checked in which took time. I don't blame the airline for this but I do blame my manger for not having enough trained persons on duty to take care of this in a timely manner. It is important for commerce.

In addition to complicated command entries, I had to understand all the ticket rules and codes for the command entries to work. How am I to know this stuff without training? I did the best I could but I was on the phone most of the time trying to find another agent to help me whom was surprised a little that I was in the position I was but did not know what to do.

The following was the ice on the cake for me.

One morning I reported "manditory"..a word my boss liked to use...to work at 8am on my day off after getting off the previous night at 11pm from working since 9am that same day. I was tired and hungry and decided to stop somewhere to get something to eat. When I walked in the airport with my bag of food, the line of passengers was about 70 or 80 people thick with ONE agent working the line.

"Where is my boss who called me in who is supposed to help during times like this?" I asked myself...

I decided to eat my breakfast since that was more important than anything else to me.. I was really tired and hungry...it had already been a long week. 2 days before I was scheduled to work 5am to 1pm but I got off at 830 pm because of the ongoing weather problem that was relentless for nearly 3 months straight everyday.

I was pulling so much over time that it would have been great if I had the time to spend the money but I barely had time to figure out what to eat much less pay my personal bills.

After spending 10 minutes eating my meal I walked to the counter and was greeted by woman who wanted to ship a live animal (bird.) I never had this before so naturally I was asking the (already tired and frustrated) agent next to me what to do.

"Check focus!" is what I was told. I did not know how to use focus. Focus is the part of the reservation program that tells agents the rules and entries for every circumstance an agent will encounter on duty. The problem with it is it requires the knowledge of command entries to use it. I have to know how to use the computer to know how to use the computer in other words.

With animals, special rules apply like temperature requirements at every connecting city apply. Food, water, declarations from the vet are also required. Try figuring this stuff out when minutes are left for a timely departure is stressful.

My manger called me into her office the next day and chewed me out for eating before I went to work. I chewed her back. At this point I did not care if I lost my job. The conditions were unbearable already. I made my terms and walked out. I kept my job but it was not easy.

2007 still had weather problems and it did not stop until the next year.

I ended up quitting and that was one of the happiest days of my life. Freedom is not appreciated until you go without it.

I have so many other accounts but I will leave you to this one. If you really want to make a difference you have to share what you know about the laws and other stories to help. I want to improve the working conditions for employees and improve the product offered by the airline. It is possible. Government legislation makes it hard but I will not give up.

I know of so many government officials and employees who have "cush" positions with the airlines and they take advantage of the benefits and that pisses me off because they have more weight than an employee does. I am not sure what they do in many circumstances but I am sure they are visiting friends and relatives every few weeks to the same city on our dime. I have seen it with my own eyes.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

First, I admire what appears to be your optimism of youth or, at the very least, youth not so long past. That having been said I don’t think any “average person” can bring about significant and meaningful change in the dysfunctional state of affairs most US-based airlines find themselves. There was a time when I believed Kate Hanni, the passenger rights advocate, was a latter day Don Quixote—with powers to knock-down the windmill that is the Air Transport Association (“ATA.”) Then I started following the health care debates and realized that taking-out a second mortgage is no match for the ability of a powerful lobbying group to “buy” votes in Congress; mount negative media campaigns; organize “shout-downs” at constituent meetings, and other dirty tricks. That’s not to say, someday, we might still see reform. However the reform I foresee will follow the same pattern as the reform of Bob The Drunk—that poster on this board who, between vomiting episodes, defends the airlines blindly. Both the airlines and Bob must hit “bottom” before there can be any hope of reform. For Bob it will mean the airline catering company he probably works for fires him for being drunk on the job, and Bob then takes-up residence in some doorway with a paper bag by his side. For the airlines it means substantially more outrageous behavior than they have already perpetrated: More delays, more baseless arrests, and probably even several more deaths. Colgan Air (Continental Express) could well wind-up having to make substantial pay-outs, for wrongful death, in connection with the crash outside Buffalo. Probably this board’s faux lawyer in Orlando will tell us how that crash was all the fault of the passengers on that flight! (lol!) Given the time that has passed since that crash, and the incident of a few days ago involving a Northwest/Delta Airbus, it’s clear that more passengers must die before the issue of cockpit crew fatigue is taken seriously. Hence this issue has not found its “bottom.” The same thing applies to tarmac delays. If deaths occur, in “sufficient numbers,” as a result of inaction on the part of the crew then, and only then, would there be serious talk about tarmac delays. Again only hitting that “bottom,” or sleeping in that doorway, in the case of Bob The Drunk, will bring about results. Fines are about as effective as spitting into an oncoming wind. Fines are frequently negotiated downward. The FAA once spoke of “tombstone regulating” as if it were a thing of the past. I don’t think so.

If I DON’T wind-up getting “reported,” for one or more slights—real and imagined—I will be very surprised. The airline people, and their supporters, rule this board 2 to 1. With those kind of odds the outcome of the game is, always, very predictable and, yes, sad, very sad.