[Camper01]

We booked a non-stop flight from Laguardia to Madison WI to attend a 3 day conference that started on Thursday - 10 family members traveling - one member is handicapped and traveling is difficult for him. We live in CT, booked a van to take us to airport, checked in, found a quiet corner to settle in to wait for the 2:45 flight. Flight was delayed till 4:45, when we inquired why could not be given an answer, at 4:45 flight was delayed again till 5:15. Boarding was not started for 5:15 departure till 5:30, we were taken by small bus to plane and then had to walk in down-pouring rain to plane. Once on plane we were told that plane was delayed because Laguardia had closed due to weather, and they were coming in from VA, had to land to refuel, then come to NY after airport reopened. We were also told that this plane had no air conditioning all day but once we got in the air we could have some air "movement" and the stewardess would be glad to bring us bags of ice to cool down. Plane pulled out but did not line up - just sat for 60 min - with no A/C or moving air. After 60 min we were told that we were going back -the crew had "timed out" and that possibly there would be another crew available. Once we got back in the gate we were told that this flight was cancelled, and that possibly they could get us on a flight the next day, arriving late on Friday. Because this would mean that we would miss 2 days of the conference we decided to go home, when we inquired about a refund, and some sort of transportation reimbursement to get home to CT - we were told "sorry, no this was weather related". After much discussion with a manager that I demanded be called to the gate we were given full reimbursements for our tickets and a paid van to take us home - ONLY because we were traveling with a handicapped member. I would like to be reimbursed for our van travel to Laguardia - does anyone know how I could go about asking for this? 12 hours after we left our house in CT we arrived home - information and service from Delta was VERY poor.

[Camper01]

We booked a non-stop flight from Laguardia to Madison WI to attend a 3 day conference that started on Thursday - 10 family members traveling - one member is handicapped and traveling is difficult for him. We live in CT, booked a van to take us to airport, checked in, found a quiet corner to settle in to wait for the 2:45 flight. Flight was delayed till 4:45, when we inquired why could not be given an answer, at 4:45 flight was delayed again till 5:15. Boarding was not started for 5:15 departure till 5:30, we were taken by small bus to plane and then had to walk in down-pouring rain to plane. Once on plane we were told that plane was delayed because Laguardia had closed due to weather, and they were coming in from VA, had to land to refuel, then come to NY after airport reopened. We were also told that this plane had no air conditioning all day but once we got in the air we could have some air "movement" and the stewardess would be glad to bring us bags of ice to cool down. Plane pulled out but did not line up - just sat for 60 min - with no A/C or moving air. After 60 min we were told that we were going back -the crew had "timed out" and that possibly there would be another crew available. Once we got back in the gate we were told that this flight was cancelled, and that possibly they could get us on a flight the next day, arriving late on Friday. Because this would mean that we would miss 2 days of the conference we decided to go home, when we inquired about a refund, and some sort of transportation reimbursement to get home to CT - we were told "sorry, no this was weather related". After much discussion with a manager that I demanded be called to the gate we were given full reimbursements for our tickets and a paid van to take us home - ONLY because we were traveling with a handicapped member. I would like to be reimbursed for our van travel to Laguardia - does anyone know how I could go about asking for this? 12 hours after we left our house in CT we arrived home - information and service from Delta was VERY poor.

[justme]

Originally Posted by Camper01

...had to walk in down-pouring rain...

You answered your own question. The FAA and airlines have restrictions that need to be followed to insure safety during bad weather like this. Your pilots "timing out" was them reaching their FEDERAL maximum number of hours flying for that day. It would have been illegal, not to mention dangerous, for them to continue to fly that day. The way I understand your post, the airline offered to rebook you on another flight and you declined. Honestly, from the sound of it, you are lucky to have gotten a refund at all. (Unless you had bought a refundable ticket of course, but those are increasingly rare these days.) If you did not have a refundable ticket, you should have gotten a voucher for the value of your ticket, and if the reason for the cancellation was indeed weather, they shouldn't charge you a fee to change the ticket to another day (unless you change the destination, then the fare may be different). Sorry to hear you and your group missed your conference, but unfortunately weather cannot be controlled by anyone but affects everyone.

[Camper01]

Thank you for your reply - we are not frequent air travelers because of my handicapped son. I understand about the timing out rule - and I am all in favor for it - I most certainly want the best possible trained and fresh crews in the air at all time. The things that I am most upset about are: 1. the lack of information all day - we were never told the delays were because of weather/closure of airport. 2. If the crew was so close to timing out (within 1 hour) why were we even allowed to board the plane? It was almost a 3 hour flight, even if we took off right away the crew would have timed out an hour after take off. We had non-refundable tickets - according to your reply I should consider myself very lucky that I received a full credit - again, thank you for your insight, it makes the missed trip a little easier to take.

[PHXFlyer]

You received a refund for your tickets which you were entitled to. They paid for your van ride home which they didn't have to do. NOW you want them to pay for your transportation OT the airport?

Had the weather been OK and the flight operated you would have paid for the ride TO the airport anyway. Why are you asking them to pay for it now because the flight canceled. I'm sorry you didn't make it to your conference but let's be realistic here. Your asking the airline to pay for something you would have to pay for anyway. Actually, had you made the trip you would have paid for transportation home too so they've already gone above and beyond, in my opinion.

Afternoon thunderstorms in New York City are very common. Newark, LaGuardia and JFK are a mess when they roll in. It's unfortunate but when it happens you just have to roll with the punches. You're already ahead. Let it go.

[justme]

Originally Posted by Camper01

2. If the crew was so close to timing out (within 1 hour) why were we even allowed to board the plane? It was almost a 3 hour flight, even if we took off right away the crew would have timed out an hour after take off.

Let me try to explain this with a little more detail so hopefully it will make sense. I got all the info I'm about to post here.

The pilots of a "two-pilot" airplane have a maximum of 10 duty hours in a calendar day (0000 hours to 2359 hours.) Duty period means the period of elapsed time between reporting for an assignment involving flight time and release from that assignment. All time between these two points is part of the duty period, even if flight time is interrupted by nonflight-related duties. They are allowed to extend that 10 hours to a total of 12 if it will not violate any of these other limitations: 500 hours per calendar quarter, 800 hours in two consecutive quarters, 1,400 hours in a calendar year, or 8 hours of flight deck time in a 24 hour period (actual time sitting in the cockpit with engines running). Now, with all that being said, the case is usually that the pilots know they are going to be cutting it close in situations like this, and often, because of the weather, cannot accurately predict what time they will be taking off. The reason they put you on the airplane, and went out and sat on the taxi-way knowing they might not make it, is because they were probably hoping for an opening in the weather to allow them to take off in enough time to get to the destination before becoming "illegal." Unfortuneately, they ran out of time and did not have a replacement crew so your flight was cancelled. The limitations on "three-pilot" airplanes are the same in principle, just with different numbers of hours as the maximums. Flight attendants are also regulated using the same basic principle, with yet again different hour requirements. As you can imagine after reading this, it is definitely not easy to keep track of on a bad weather day when things go bad. I hope that clarifies the hours situation a little bit. Sorry again you didn't make your conference, hopefully it won't deter you from flying again.

[Camper01]

OK, OK ---I'll be sad that we didn't make our conference and be thankful we got back what we did! and I've got a great story for work tomorrow!

Thanks to all that replied - I really appreciate your comments and information --this is a great website/blog especially for a non-frequent air traveler like me!

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Conn. to Madison, Wisc: AMTRAK has one-train service to Chicago from Springfield, Mass. and Penn Station, Manhattan. Drive time (rental car) from Chicago is under 3 hours. Total nights "on the road:" 2 (one on the train, one following arrival in Chicago.) Sleeping cars are available on the train.

With regard to air travel: Nowdays it's unrealistic to think you can travel from point A to point B and be able to make a meeting, wedding, funeral, etc. the morning of the day after your arrival. There has been more than one post on this board about someone leaving on a cruise, but waiting until the day before the sailing to fly to the port. What do you think happened? As you found-out, all too often, the plane gets you there no faster than the train. Airports at any major city in the US are running on "overload" in terms of the number of flights that can be handled. So anything less than perfect weather, effectively, shuts everything down.

[EXCO]

I have to agree with Butch. As a former airline employee, I know better to travel at least a day before I have to be there...wherever "there" is.

[abutterfinger25]

Originally Posted by justme

The way I understand your post, the airline offered to rebook you on another flight and you declined. Honestly, from the sound of it, you are lucky to have gotten a refund at all. (Unless you had bought a refundable ticket of course, but those are increasingly rare these days.) If you did not have a refundable ticket, you should have gotten a voucher for the value of your ticket, and if the reason for the cancellation was indeed weather, they shouldn't charge you a fee to change the ticket to another day (unless you change the destination, then the fare may be different).

Your wrong here. If the airline cancels a flight, and the passenger does not accept the reaccomodation, they are entitled to a full refund. Even if the tickets were non-refundable.