[nancy lasseter]

Yesterday I was diagnosed with the swine flu while on a business trip in Orlando. My doctor told me that I should not fly until Wed so I was forced to change my return flight reservation.

Yesterday, I was diagnosed with the swine flu while on a business trip in Orlando. My doctor told me that I should not fly until Wed, so I was forced to change my return flight reservation; but American Airlines refused to wave the $150 change fee.

I am trying to be a responsible citizen by not exposing others to this contagious and potentially fatal illness. By enforcing this policy, American Airlines is encouraging passengers to travel with infectious diseases.

I have chosen not to expose my fellow passengers to the swine flu and I will pay the $150; but it makes me wonder how many others will avoid paying the fee and just go ahead and travel anyway! Scary.

The media could have field day with this one!

[PHXFlyer]

For most the H1N1 or "swine" flu will be no more serious than any other seasonal flu or cold. The airlines can't be expected to waive the change fees for everyone who calls in and claims they are ill. Travel insurance often covers the cost of change fees if you become ill while traveling. Call the credit card company that issued the card you used to pay for the ticket. Often there is some amount of automatic travel insurance just by using the card to pay for airline tickets. There are also policies which can be purchased separately.

[airhead]

Way to go Nancy! I am glad some people are willing to do the hard thing in front of their own wants. You made my day. You did the right thing too.

Most fares DO allow a passenger to change without a fee because of medical reasons if the change is done ahead of time and not just hours before departure. If you gave the airline a reasonable amount of time of notice with a signed docs note and it is not a total restrictive, non refundable fare then you have a good chance of getting that change fee refunded.

I would consider an illness an "act of god" as outlined in their contract of carriage but that interpretation is open for discussion. I suggest you use it as I would not consider that a false testimony. It makes sense to me. Good luck to you.

For others out there reading this...offer to fax or have someone else send a docs note to a manager. If one does not accept, try another. American Airlines has so many mangers the odds are on your side...just be nice otherwise they will make a "comment" on the itinerary and that is not good.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

For most the H1N1 or "swine" flu will be no more serious than any other seasonal flu or cold.

Phx: First I note your usage of the word "most." Second, I know there are some airline defenders, not necessarily yourself Phx, who would have us believe there is absolutely NOTHING, in the way of germs/viruses that can be transmitted in a closed airplane cabin. Those in this group will dismiss what follows (probably with "sad," "fail," or some other whiskey-inspired comment.)

It IS important to keep in mind the existence of two significant risk groups: Young children and pregnant women. Based on a report I saw tonight the mortality rate for pregnant women contracting H1N1 is around 25%. As we both know, not ALL pregnant women are kept off flights.

[nancy lasseter]

The call was made to the airlines about 24 hours in advance. I certainly could provide proof of my condition; act of God or not, I was not given the option to make my plea. Perhaps my case should be followed up once I have recovered and return home; it is time consuming on my part... not the best customer service.

[Silent Bob]

Definitely try and plea your case, if you can't with one person always try another. Normally a change fee can be waived, especially with illness and especially if you have documented proof of your condition. But I know AA is one tough cookie when it comes to fees, they usually stick to their guns no matter what, which is why I refuse to fly them. I hope all goes well and do take care of yourself.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by airhead

Most fares DO allow a passenger to change without a fee because of medical reasons if the change is done ahead of time and not just hours before departure. If you gave the airline a reasonable amount of time of notice with a signed docs note and it is not a total restrictive, non refundable fare then you have a good chance of getting that change fee refunded.

Actually, airhead, most airlines do not have a provision for illness as a reason to waive a change fee.

Originally Posted by airhead

I would consider an illness an "act of god" as outlined in their contract of carriage but that interpretation is open for discussion. I suggest you use it as I would not consider that a false testimony. It makes sense to me. Good luck to you.

Perhaps you do, but the airlines don't. The only way an "act of god" gets anyone off the hook is when it happens to the airlines. The COCs are written that way. Yes, it's one sided, but it's just the way it is. One might consider a traffic jam or flat tire on the way to the airport an "act of god" but that argument will get you nowhere with an airline.

Originally Posted by airhead

For others out there reading this...offer to fax or have someone else send a docs note to a manager. If one does not accept, try another. American Airlines has so many mangers the odds are on your side...just be nice otherwise they will make a "comment" on the itinerary and that is not good.

Please don't falsely inflate the hopes of those reading this. Airlines rarely make exceptions for illness. They do, however, make exceptions for death. Here's the wording from AA's fare rules:

--- V. IN THE CASE OF THE DEATH OF THE PASSENGER/ IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER/ OR A TRAVELING COMPANION/ THE CHANGE FEE MAY BE WAIVED OR THE TICKET REFUNDED PROVIDED A COPY OF THE DEATH CERTIFICATE IS PRESENTED TO AA. REFUND WILL BE IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRANSPORTATION VOUCHER THAT MAY BE USED FOR FUTURE TRAVEL ON AA ONLY. IN THE CASE OF THE PASSENGER/S DEATH THE REFUND WILL BE TO THE PASSENGER/S ESTATE VIA THE ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. ALL REFUND REQUESTS MUST BE SENT TO AA PASSENGER REFUNDS.

So if you're ill and want the change fee waived you'd better have a loved one call AA after you've died and they better have your death certificate.

[jimworcs]

Phx..
You are wrong to minimise the potential impact of the H1N1 virus.. this has been officially declared an epidemic and has the capacity to spread worldwide. The virus appears to have some odd characteristics, some of which are of unknown origin. For example, pregnant women, even healthy ones, appear to be highly vulnerable to the virus. It also seems to disproportionately affect younger people, particularly men. Whilst some of these may have underlying health problems, others do not.

It is highly irresponsible to operate any policies which may exacerbate the spread of this disease. This is not about people trying to trick the airlines out of change fees. This is about a serious matter of public health in which people may die. The airlines should immediately announce that change fees will not be charged for any passenger who can provide a doctors note, or laboratory results which evidence that the passenger was diagnosed with H1N1 virus.

If I was the OP, I would take the following action:

1. Write to AA CEO outlining your circumstances and copy your letter to your local Senator and/or Representative.

2. Contact the media and ask them to do a story on the public health implications of the airlines actions.

Before all the barking sympathisers start jumping up and down and saying that this is a charter for people to claim illness to get out of the fees, be clear about what I have suggested.

The passenger would have to provide evidence. This exemption would only apply to the H1N1 virus and the reason for this is that the World Health Organisation and the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta have declared this an epidemic which requires "extraordinary" measures to protect the population.

You may not take this seriously, PHX, but you are in a minority. The UK government for example has bought enough vaccine to vaccinate the entire population. That suggests to me that scientific advisors to the government take this very seriously indeed.

The fees are a rip off in the first place. A failure to suspend the fees in this particular circumstance would be irresponsible.

[Silent Bob]

Before all the barking sympathisers start jumping up and down and saying that this is a charter for people to claim illness to get out of the fees, be clear about what I have suggested.

Actually jim, I agree with you. I think the H1N1 is a very serious issue we're dealing with today. Looking at the number of deaths it's caused, hell any number high or low, doesn't matter, it should impact the way airlines will handle this. If a person says they have H1N1 they should be able to provide documented proof and that should be enough to waive any change fees, because I would really hate to think that the airlines are allowing swine flu patients on board spreading the disease even further than it is, and in my old age I don't have time for the flu lol. But yes the airline should have some contigency in place, much like they did when it first started.

I also agree to an extent the whole "change fee" issue. I think change fees should be put in place to deter "frequent" changing of reservations (i.e. people who keep changing their mind over, and over, and over), but for serious,documented issues, not just swine flu, I believe they should be waived. I also think the fees set in place are too high and should be lowered. I've actually paid a fee of 250 and that was because of my "no visa" for brazil. *sigh*

Lastly, think that the actions you suggest might be a bit extreme..... Writing the CEO: yes! Writing the CEO, the Media, Congress, the butcher, the baker, the green grocer: no! Why? You have to think, and I'm almost certain it happens, that most people try to contact the media for any given situation. True we're talking about swine flu, but I think before blowing things out of proportion and involving the media, we need to first think rationale, and maybe writing letters and making phone calls explaining the situation might help, and if all else fails, then yes why not try the media.

Oh CNN did run a small piece about Swine Flu and air travel earlier today. I don't think it will get full coverage unless of course it becomes a full blown pandemic.

[PHXFlyer]

i realize that the H1N1 "swine flu" virus is a major public health threat but so is the seasonal flu and other airborn communicable diseases. while i appreciate one's decision not to travel so as not to expose others there are just as many if not more who choose to travel anyway. there are even those traveling who are incubating the virus and are yet unaware they are infected but are just as contageous as someone with symptoms. in a perfect world it would be a good thing to provide waivers. but where would it end? perhaps i had flu but not H1N1. shouldn't i get a waiver too? what about strep throat or conjunctivitis? just where would the line be drawn?

furthermore there is the element of fraud. on another airline related forum where I have been active for three years there was a recent report from someone who was denied a waiver to change their travel plans because of a death in the family. an airline employee added a comment to the threead that they had to be more diligent about giving bereavement fares/waivers because asit turned out almost 80% was fraud. im sure you would see a similar percentage with illness waivers as well. its a case of the wrongdoers spoiling it for those with a legitimate need.

[Leatherboy2006]

Get well Nancy, just found out a few hours ago I have it to.
Just think we are now part of national statics....though not one I wanted to be part of

[Silent Bob]

Hey Leatherboy you take care of yourself as well. And as far as being a statistic, well you could be on the surviving end or the uhmmmmmm well I don't wanna jinx you so get well soon.

[cortney]

I just did a trip yesterday that out of 150 people...half were sick (not commercial passengers btw) and out of 150, 2 had confirmed cases of swine flu. had to fill out a crew report...not fun. hope you all get better soon

[mars6423]

jimworks, you are wrong, it doesnt have the capacity to spread worldwide, last time i checked it has spread worldwide, yes certain areas have higher cases, but it basically is everywhere now.......but other than that it is not something to play with, it is serious and yes many people (if not the majority) who contract H1N1 get better within 3-5 days or a little longer, but there are deaths

the only defense i could give about phxflyers take is that yes alot of people die of seasonal flu every year but thats not an epidemic

it is still too early to completely understand H1N1 and they dont even know if the vacine is safe, i have a bunch of people contract swine flu from the vacine (i know you get it but in a dose in whcih your body should be able to create imunizitation to it and recognize the structure if it enters the body again) so many people are staying away from the vacine in the mean time

I think that the airlines should "hold" the ticket until you have a doctors note saying that your safe to fly and no chance of passing on H1N1 to anyone else, and that there should be no extra charge......and if it is a prolonged case in which you are in the hospital for have some record to show the airline. If you have proof than you should be able to use the already purchased ticket for no extra cost, providing you show some advance "warning" so that you dont just show up and expect to be placed on the next light, call ahead and tell them that you have the documents and that you would like to fly with them on your ticket on the next available flight

swine flu is a flu that we dont know too much about, or how it will effect people, it is crazy how it is effecting those who are normally the healthiest (young males in late teens-twenties) and pregnant women

i sometimes wonder why the seasonal flu isnt getting national media, it kills hundreds of thousands every year and you never really hear about it

[jimworcs]

Mars..
I am afraid you are less informed about health matters than you are about airline matters.

Your first sentence makes no sense... if it has spread worldwide, then it must have had the capacity to do so. It is concentrated in particular areas, at this stage, although you are right to say that cases have been reported around the world.

i have a bunch of people contract swine flu from the vacine

This is one of the most irresponsible lies you have ever posted. You have NEVER met a single person who has contracted swine flu from the vaccine. The reason for this is that the THE VACCINE IS NOT LIVE AND CANNOT CAUSE SWINE FLU. Did you understand this? You should retract this statement. It is not true and spreading these kind of myths can cost lives. Pregnant woman are 6 or 7 times more likely to be hospitalised following the H1N1 virus and 3 times more likely to die. If you had any morals you would correct yourself.

I am posting a link to the most recent NHS guidelines relating to Swine Flu. You will find similar advice in CDC and other national bodies. I would even hazard a guess that you would find this advice in Singapore if you look. You will find confirmation of what I have written in bold lettering.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum.../dg_181508.pdf

[mars6423]

i was saying that it doesnt have the capacity/ability to spread when it has already spread pretty much world wide....i know bad explanation but things are just not firing today

and for your info, at least over here in the US, they gave live swine flu through nasal means for a period of time due to no injections being ready for mass distribution, so that wasn't a lie

[jimworcs]

Mars...
Even the live nasal spray is attenuated and it does not cause swine flu. Here is a link to the CDC guidelines about the live nasal spray. You will find the CDC state this categorically on Page 1. You need to stop spreading this kind of nonsense... I do not believe you know a single person who has contracted swine flu from a vaccine... What you are spreading are rumours, myths and lies.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis...-laiv-h1n1.pdf

[AirlinesMustPay]

Not only is Madman Marz a pathological liar, he writes like an idiot. Look how he phrased it:

Originally Posted by mars6423

i have a bunch of people contract swine flu from the vacine

He has a bunch of people who contracted swine flu from the vaccine.

I wonder where he has them? In his basement? Or is he the owner of the Mars Memorial Hospital in Singapore and he has them there? Or is he talking about something that happened on planet Mars?

Did he mean that he heard of them? Did he mean that he knows them?

Whatever he meant I believe it has to be a lie. The nasal mist is indeed live, and some people were reluctant to have their children take it, but Madman Marz decided to make up the part about having a bunch of people who actually contracted swine flu from it.

Some health centers are still using this nasal mist and it is a mischeivous lie to say that people have contracted the disease from it.

Madman Marz needs to be suspended for a while from this site by the Administrator for his deliberate and misleading lies, if he cannot back up his allegation with facts, and they should delete that allegation from this thread

[AirlinesMustPay]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Mars..
I am afraid you are less informed about health matters than you are about airline matters.

He appears completely ignorant about both health and airline matters. I have yet to find a thread where what he said made any sense.

[mars6423]

its not supposed to cause swine flu but it does, when i went to my doctor for a regular check up he was telling me that he had administered the H1N1 flu vacine (nasal) to healthy people, and they would come back later and were diagnosed with swine flu, and he told me that fellow doctors had seen some cases where that also happened, so they doubt it is a coincidence

of coarse the doc never told me names, and also this happened to one of my co-workers kids, and my neighbor

and i have heard reports and people were second guessing getting the vacine for that fear, as well as others, i tend to believe that doctors wouldn't lie about what they see, especially one's that graduated from Boston medical school and Harvard


sinbad yeah i have them in my basement....com'on you should be able to tell in context that i meant to say know

sinbad if your gonna say that i should be suspended, than i would highly recommend that you look at some of your posts and look at this sites rules, and i am sure you will see that you have crossed the line with some of your obnoxious name calling and "put downs" maybe your oblivious but there are tons of examples that you can see

its not misleading when there has been cases in which it has happened, guidelines are there to be followed and it sets up proceedure, but it doesn't always work

[jimworcs]

its not supposed to cause swine flu but it does

Yeah, Mars.. there is a worldwide conspiracy to tell people lies about the vaccine. What would be the motive? Why would they give vaccines which kills people?

WHO, CDC, NHS, and the National Institutes of Health (and that is just some of the sources I have looked up on this issue) all state that even the attenuated live virus cannot cause swine flu. Meanwhile, Mars you know doctors who are administrating the

H1N1 flu vacine (nasal) to healthy people, and they would come back later and were diagnosed with swine flu, and he told me that fellow doctors had seen some cases where that also happened, so they doubt it is a coincidence

Your doctor sounds really irresponsible. He knows he is administering a live virus vaccine that is causing people to actually catch H1N1 virus and yet he continues to do it. The virus at this time is being prioritised for people who are particularly vulnerable. What kind of doctor would knowingly administer a virus to vulnerable people when he has evidence that it is making them sick.

I am sorry Mars, but these lies are irresponsible nonsense and you have made yourself look foolish.

[mars6423]

jimworks, if it was possible i would say ask those people who received the vacine and got swine flu how they think about this matter, but there is no way of knowing who these people are since doctor patient privoledges prohibit it

they say it cant, but unless it was a coincidence than i would have to say that there is a slim chance that it can, and there have been news reports that say that people have been getting swine flu even though they had the vaccine, so dont say i am lying when people have gotten H1N1 after they received the vacine, remember everything isn't ever 100% there are going to be cases in which goes against the norm, it may benefit the majority but there is a slim chance that it can harm others

so dont call someone a liar when people have gotten the virus/disease or any form, after they have gotten the shot, so either the vacine didn't do the job and they got swine flu close to getting the vacine, or the vacine accidently gave people the vacine, true most people who do get it are fine, but there are underlying results that have been found that it is not always the case

[jimworcs]

My problem with your hypothesis is that there is no medical evidence to support it. Let's be clear: for the two main vaccines which are being recommended, it would be impossible to infect people with the H1N1 virus using this method, as they are not live.

On the nasal live virus, which has only been given to vulnerable people, under the age of 49 in the US; there is no evidence whatsoever of transmission of the virus through the vaccine. Rather than provide highly dubious anecdotal stories... why not provide a link to some real evidence. I have backed up my posts with links to credible sources... you are unable to do so.

I don't believe a medically qualified doctor has told you that he has been administering the virus and that a number of his patients have become infected as a result. I don't believe you because this would have had to have been reported to the CDC if it was in the US. The CDC states categorically that there is no evidence whatsoever of transmisson by the vaccine. So either, the CDC is lying or you are. I have drawn my own conclusions, but perhaps we had better leave it to the readers to draw theirs.

Now, following any vaccine, there is a common side effect of very mild "flu" like symptoms. These symptoms are mild and are not due to infection caused by the vaccine.

I am challenging you strongly on these issues because I think these type of myths, rumours and lies can have serious implications on public health. Similar myths were spread around the world about the MMR vaccine. This resulted in millions of parents refusing to allow their children to be vaccinated, as they had heard rumours that it was linked to autism. As a result the largest scale clinical study ever into vaccinations had to be undertaken to investigate the alleged link. No causal link was found.. but in the meantime children with underlying health problems were dying and others were hospitalised with serious complications.

[AirlinesMustPay]

Madman Marz just to show you up as a pathological liar, I telephoned a friend who until recently worked in the Center for Disease Control at Atlanta, Dr Archibald, who suggests that you doctor should immediately contact the Center to inform them and let them investigate. They do not know of any such cases that have been caused by the nasal mist.

Now Madman Marz, would you be good enough to tell us the name of the doctor who told you that. I know that doctor-patient confidentiality did not allow him to give out the patients name. But you can give us his name. The Center for Disease control will surely like to contact him, if he does not contact them.

You can't can you?

That is because your story is a complete LIE and you are an unashamed LIAR.

I wonder if your doctor is a vet because now that you have a demented donkey's brain in your idiotic head, you are probably being treated by a vet.

You low-down lying lunatic

[mars6423]

did he also tell you that they cant confirm that they actually got it from the vacine? it just seems that some people who have received the nasal dose have become infected with H1N1, but due to the inability to prove that it was from the vacine or not it doesn count as a statistic?