[justwondering]

I was heading from Detroit to BTV last night. Apparently, a Delta employee who was visibly drunk, and smelled of alcohol sat next to me. He kept harassing me and two other women. He kept violating my space, and spilled drinks all over my coat. He badgered me asking if I had a laptop he could borrow. Furthermore, he would use his cell phone after 10,000 feet. He constantly told me that he was a Delta employee flying. He attempted to go to the flight attendant galley to get drinks. The flight attendant was extremely busy helping a sick passenger. It was awful. I and the two other women attempted to first ignore him, and then to see if we could report it - but the attendant was just overwhelmed helping this passenger. She did see him talking on his phone once while we were in the air, and smiled, "You know better than that."

Worried he would be driving home (he claimed he was) and kill himself or another, we attempted to find the crew. Finally, we found a Delta employee in the airport, who were wonderful and professional. One Delta terminal person stated she saw this Delta employee, and believed he was intoxicated. Anyways, I told them regardless of what happened to me, I was more concerned at this moment of his safety and others if he were to drive. The airport manager told me to call Delta customer service to report it - against better judgement I did. Boy, the rep stated that the three of us women (we did not know eachother) did everything wrong by not "reporting it to the attendant." Also, she said, "Oh well, no harm done." I stated she was overwhelmed with a pretty sick passenger, and the flight was only an hour. Also, the flight was overbooked, and the attendant had all she could. Any time she were close, and we attempted to wave to get her attention, she would run away. I was calling because of my concern that their employee will continue to fly drunk and harass other passengers and perhaps they need to investigate.

Just wondering if I did the right thing because after calling Delta's corporate headquarters, I think nothing will be done about it. Is this common among Delta? I have to travel a lot now, and wondered if this were an isolated incident. Personally, I think it is extremely embarassing for Delta to have an employee drunk, violate FAA rules about not going to the attendant gally and cell phones, and harassing other customers.

[PHXFlyer]

A few questions.

How did you know this was a Delta employee? Just because he said so or was he in uniform or did you see his airline ID badge?

I ask this because a statement you made in your story seems to contradict the fact that this "employee" would even be on the flight to begin with. You mentioned that the flight was over-sold. If that's the case then only an employee flying to report for duty would have been on that plane. Any other employee either flying home from their base or flying on personal travel would not have been on that flight due to the fact it was over-sold. Since the flight was from a hub, DTW, to an out-station, BTV, I highly doubt this was an employee traveling to work and highly doubt it was actually an employee at all.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

One could argue that the customer in question, in his drunken state, was just trying to impress the OP (obviously, unsuccessfully) with a lie that he was a Delta employee. Such a statement could have been a ploy to get use of the OP's laptop. For a real Delta employee being drunk, in-flight, would have been (or should have been) job suicide assuming the crew was aware that said customer was an employee.

On the other hand, was the flight attendant's pre-occupation with the sick passenger the ONLY reason not to become more forceful, than she was, about the issue of using a cell phone in-flight? A flight attendant, who wanted to cut a fellow employee a break, might very well say something like "you know better than that."

It would be interesting to know whether this was a Delta "mainline" flight, or "Delta Connection" (commuter.) About a year ago there was a well-publicized incident involving a Delta Connection flight attendant who, for lack of a better term, was sloppy drunk (as evidenced by videos) and was taken into police custody.

[mars6423]

question, at what point can Delta say that the "employee/passanger" was too drunk to fly and could be dangerous to others? especially if there is an emergancy?

to me if he is drunk to the point where he is spilling things, acting incoherently and invading others space, than he is not safe to fly under any circumstance, this is for the safety of fellow passangers

so when can an airline say no you are not on this flight, wait until you sober up and you will be placed on the next flight?

you did the right thing to call, but delta wont do anything, its the way delta is run, their management is dreadful to say the least

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

It would be interesting to know whether this was a Delta "mainline" flight, or "Delta Connection" (commuter.)

DTW-BTV is operated by Northwest Airlink. But again it's an "apples and oranges" comparison. In the incident you cite the FA was on duty while this person was not.

[Gromit801]

If it was truly an employee, he stands to lose his job if his inebriated state can be corroborated by others on the flight.

When an airline employee is flying non-rev, they still represent the airline, and must maintain that airline's standards of behavior.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Regardless of whether the drunk was a Delta employee or not, if he was as obviously drunk as the OP has described he, almost certainly, would exceed the legal blood-alcohol limit for driving in Vermont (and probably most other states.) Accordingly, in a small airport like Burlington, it might have been worthwhile to approach an airport police officer and relay the drunk's statement about driving. Again, in a small airport, someone this plastered might be easy to spot. I wouldn't have too much confidence about making such a report in a large place, like Newark (EWR.) I could see the Port Authority cop say something smart like "what do you want ME to do about it!" Again, the purpose of making such a report would not be all that vindictive, but rather a public safety issue.

[jimworcs]

He constantly told me that he was a Delta employee flying.

She did see him talking on his phone once while we were in the air, and smiled, "You know better than that."

One Delta terminal person stated she saw this Delta employee, and believed he was intoxicated

Sounds like a Delta employee to me!! Who wouldn't get drunk in the circumstances.. you work for Northwest and you feel ok. The next thing you know, you have been dumped onto Delta. I would need a stiff drink.

If I was in the OP's shoes, I think I would have alerted the police at the airport, if I felt the employee posed a serious risk of driving. Even if Delta had acted (AS IF!); they have no real powers over the actions of an off duty employee. The police on the other hand could arrest him the minute he put his hands on that steering wheel.

[Jetliner]

Weather or not the guy was in fact a Delta employee is anyone's guess. If he is, I guarantee he wont' be for long. More than likely as was stated already he was just some drunk dude trying to impress someone on the flight. Who knows.

As for the driving part..... I will say that the OP should have called the police, but then again, it probably wouldn't have done much good. But I have been in that situation where I called the police on someone that I knew was drunk and was going to drive. The problem is that the police have to get a good description of the guy, then go find him. And granted we're not talking about O'hare, but in BTV there are probably more fingers on my right hand than officer at that airport. So, good idea to call the police, but also a good chance he would be on the road before they could find him.

On the cell phone use, there have been plenty of tests that have been done that show that cell phones don't interfere with the aircraft. The problem is #1 you never know when some new model of phone might cause a problem, #2 the FCC frowns on this because a cell phone overhead will hit several towers at once, causing problems with the cell system, and #3 the FAA bans them as a blanket policy of transmitting and receiving devices. They have issued a waiver for WiFi internet devices, but not cell phones. So in the end, sick passenger vs cell phone use, the sick passenger will win that debate.

As to the well publicized video Butch has pointed out, it's really not an indication of anything here. When you have a company with a tens of thousands of employees, you are going to have someone (quite a few someones) who will have drinking problems. Even if it's some guy on the ramp loading bags who shows up drunk one day. It's certainly not right, but that is reality. The video doesn't mean that Delta just allows drunk employees.

[Gromit801]

Originally Posted by Jetliner

On the cell phone use, there have been plenty of tests that have been done that show that cell phones don't interfere with the aircraft.

Actually, I know pilots that have recently told me that cell phone usage has caused static in their headphones on certain approach and departure channels. When the culprit is identified by the FA's, and the phone shut down, the static stops.

If the tests you're referring to was that episode of Mythbusters, their testing methodology was all ********.

[jimworcs]

Whilst there is no definitive proof that mobile phones interfere with airline systems, where trials have been conducted, shielding has been installed to protect sensitive avionics, as there is a theoretical risk. There is also a theoretical risk that a mobile phone could be hazardous at a gas filling station, and they are banned for the same reason.

Of course, as soon as a model is developed which will generate revenue for the airlines if they allow them, they will suddenly discover that the safety issues can be overcome. It's a miracle!!

In fact, in the future, the "flybywire" design of most modern aircraft will be replaced by lower weight "wifi" communications which will considerably reduce the cabling weight on future aircraft. You can be sure if this was not possible to be done safely, this would not be in the design stage.

[justme]

Any info you have about this "employee" to help me find out who he was would be great. I will do everything I can to get this guy fired if he indeed was an employee and was acting the way you described. That is absolutely unacceptable and any employee worth keeping would know this. I can't stand it when I see employees wearing their badges on to flights, let alone acting like a fool because they're intoxicated.

[jimworcs]

There you go justwondering.. an opportunity to actually get something done...

(Although I can't help wondering.. don't you have a Data Protection or Privacy law in the US which would prevent Justme from accessing this type of information? It would be highly illegal in the UK for any employee to access data like this, under these circumstances).

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

don't you have a Data Protection or Privacy law in the US which would prevent Justme from accessing this type of information?

No. As long as he/she does not give that info out publicly there is no violation of the law. If justme can figure out a name or at least where the guy was seated and go from there for a name, there is no violation of any laws in the US.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by justme

I will do everything I can to get this guy fired if he indeed was an employee and was acting the way you described.

Wow....you don't know this guy at all and you're already saying publically to another guy you've never met that you'll try to get him fired. I guess if the employee had a history of this type of behaviour and has been reprimanded before, then maybe, maybe a firing or suspension is in order. First offense, from what I remember was a written warning and maybe loss of flying benefits for a year. Why such strong verbiage about going after this guy?

[PHXFlyer]

Three days since the initial post and NONE of our questions have been answered by the OP. I think we can chalk this one up as another tall tale. For what reason we can only speculate. Perhaps a disgruntled Delta employee trying to futher sully Delta's reputation? Believe us when we tell you, justwondering, Delta doesn't need any help in that department. They do just fine ruining their own reputation!

[justme]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

Wow....you don't know this guy at all and you're already saying publically to another guy you've never met that you'll try to get him fired. I guess if the employee had a history of this type of behaviour and has been reprimanded before, then maybe, maybe a firing or suspension is in order. First offense, from what I remember was a written warning and maybe loss of flying benefits for a year. Why such strong verbiage about going after this guy?

I'll rephrase a little, but only after saying I stand by my original post. You are right I do not know the "employee" or the passenger that is reporting this. The reason I get so upset, and use "strong" verbiage is because people like this "employee" are the ones generating the complaints and ill will towards airlines in general. Yes, some complaints are due to policies or procedures, but even those are eventually handled by an employee. The fact that someone doesn't have enough respect for their employer to realize that flying for free is a privilege and they are representing the company they work for while flying (especially if they're bragging about it non-stop) means that, IMHO, their employment with said company should possibly be reconsidered. When I said I would do everything I could to get him fired, what I meant was that him getting fired would be my hope, but, obviously, not my decision. The only thing I could do would be to write his leadership and pass along the passenger complaint and maybe make a suggestion as to what I think the punishment should be. What they do from there is their decision.

As far as offenses and punishments to go with them, it depends on the offense. Missing a day of work because you flew somewhere and couldn't get home because you didn't bother to check the return flights, you're right, they may only get a day or two suspension, and loss of flight benefits for 6 months or a year. By getting wasted drunk, announcing you are an employee, obstructing a FA trying to take care of a sick passenger, and generally disrupting a flight while non-reving, you could be facing termination. Especially because it says right in the non-rev rules and guidelines, that all of these things, in-case you left your common sense and decency at home, are prohibited. Quoted are the exact rules and regs pertaining to these subjects:

1. Be discreet and professional. 2. Do not allow your actions to identify you as a non-rev / reduced rate passenger to our customers. If questioned, it is acceptable to discreetly identify yourself as a Delta employee. 3. Avoid boisterous or boastful behavior. 4. Any use of profanity is unacceptable. 5. Do not engage in conversation with other passengers that would obstruct procedural and service duties of the gate agents, flight attendants or other on-duty staff. 6. Never over-indulge in alcoholic beverages.

[jimworcs]

wow...

1. Be discreet and professional. 2. Do not allow your actions to identify you as a non-rev / reduced rate passenger to our customers. If questioned, it is acceptable to discreetly identify yourself as a Delta employee. 3. Avoid boisterous or boastful behavior. 4. Any use of profanity is unacceptable. 5. Do not engage in conversation with other passengers that would obstruct procedural and service duties of the gate agents, flight attendants or other on-duty staff. 6. Never over-indulge in alcoholic beverages.

That is like a checklist of what the employee was doing wrong. Maybe he wanted to get fired, afterall, he was NWA and all of a sudden he is working for the Altanta Monster, so worked his way through the list just to make sure!

[PHXFlyer]

Delta and Northwest still haven't integrated their workforces yet so if it was an NWA employee he still gets his check from NWA and reports to NWA management. The OP claims he told her he was a Delta employee but I still think that was either a lie or an exaggeration. She also said the flight was oversold so a non-uniformed employee should not have been on the flight. We still haven't heard from the OP again and I'm beginning to think this whole story was just that. A story!

[Gromit801]

Just to clarify, there is a way for an employ to fly on their own airline, and not get bumped. It's called "Positive Space" by some airlines. The employes pays a fee to fly, usually the taxes, and they get a seat like a regular passenger, and can't be bumped like an employee flying non-rev.

[PHXFlyer]

Or they could just buy a regular ticket like everyone else. In which case if they are traveling on their own dime could the company really discipline them for their actions? Unless it was something really out of line if they're not using their free flight benefits I would think there is little Delta could do. If a Wal-Mart employee shops there off-duty, out of uniform, and makes an ass of himself could the company really have grounds to fire him? Unless his behavior was way out of line I would say no and if they tried the employee would have a good case against the company for reinstatement.

[Gromit801]

I think most airlines have a rule that states any time an employee is traveling on their own airline (no matter how they paid), they must not exhibit any behavior that would bring anything negative on the airline. They must uphold company standards.

Airlines I fly have that rule, but I haven't flown all airlines.

[The_Judge]

Gromit..no rule exists like that when I worked at NWA. Plus, if I were to buy a "real" ticket, it sure wouldn't have been on the airline I worked for. I gave them sweat and blood along with money in the form of paycuts and loss of benefits. I sure wouldn't willingly hand over more money to fly on them.

[The_Judge]

To late to edit the above post........I wanted to add that even though no rule exists, I am 99% sure that if an employee did purchase a ticket and acted inappropriately that the airline would attempt to discipline that employee somehow by loss of flight benefits, suspension or firing.

[jimworcs]

If an employee conducted himself the way this one is alleged to have behaved, even if off duty and flying on a "real" ticket, I think any employer would have the right to take disciplinary action.

I disagree with Phx that conduct "off duty" is not relevant to the job. If someone is convicted of theft and occupies a position of trust which requires honesty, then clearly the company would be entitled to dismiss the employee. (Example: Bank Teller convicted of shoplifting).

In this case, an employee disregarded a basic rule and failed to carry out the lawful instructions of the flight attendant, by using his mobile phone. For a regular passenger, this would normally result in the full monty Delta skynazi response, with a landing party of fully armed, fat police officers boarding the plane, delighted at the opportunity to break the monotony of their beat.

I am sure, these actions would be sufficient to dismiss, even off duty. If an airline employee is able to disregard rules which are claimed to be safety related, this would indicate that they are not fit to undertake their duties.