[chrisal]

Originally Posted by mars6423

also, i think it is a crime that you have to pay (131 pesos) to make an interview with the embassy and that they wont help you/your gf and that you have to wait a while for that interview (a few weeks/month) is not a acceptable time in my books, many people wont know if they are going to be traveling through the US with that amount of time to wait (ex. small business where there is a convention/meeting in europe where the cheapest flight was through the US so they save money, and the conference is in 2 weeks, there is no chance that they would be able to get the visa in time, making the airline profitable with no passenger on that flight, an extra income, its feeding the fat cats since you have to pay the embassy and the airline money and cant get on that flight

131pesos is about US$35 (34.48) so thats not pocket change, so they should be more helpful, they should understand the situation.......ask them to see if there is a cancelation in an appointment if they could see and interview your gf (still dont see why she would need to be interviewed for transit but policy is policy and i cant argue that) or ask if she can go on her free time and if there is a space available to do the interview than, or if it is only allowable to be present at the scheduled time of interview

Mars it wasn't 131 pesos, it was 131 DOLLARS which is a lot of money for an Argentinian!!! Plus there are 15 dollars to be paid just to make the appointment. It is the same to get a holiday visa as it is for the transit visa. So in essence you are paying 146 dollars just to sit in an airport for a few hours. If this isn't robbery then I don't know what is!

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by chrisal

Mars it wasn't 131 pesos, it was 131 DOLLARS which is a lot of money for an Argentinian!!! Plus there are 15 dollars to be paid just to make the appointment. It is the same to get a holiday visa as it is for the transit visa. So in essence you are paying 146 dollars just to sit in an airport for a few hours. If this isn't robbery then I don't know what is!

All of the current travel restrictions, transit visa requirements, etc. are a result of and were instated during the George W. Bush administration. Actually you should blame him and his Republican xenophobic cronies for the situation you find yourself in now.

[mars6423]

[quote=chrisal;13925] fascist interview with the US Embassy and have to pay 131 pesos for the priviledge.

yeah US$131 is alot, sorry i thought you meant 131 pesos as thats what i read, maybe it was a type or i read it wrong, either way thats still alot of money and for that money they should be more accomodating

[chrisal]

There you have it. They asked for advice. They should have taken that advice and researched it through official government channels to confirm the advice they received was good or not. It's unfortunate that the OP relied solely on what a call center agent who probably never travels and makes less than minimum wage told him but he chose to go on that information only and now finds himself in this situation. We've all made similar mistakes before. "If only i had made a phone call..." or "if only I had received confirmation.." Life is full of "if onlys" and we need to learn from those experiences and move on. Will life come to an end because the OP's girlfriend was denied boarding on the flight through the US? Of course not. It's just a complication that needs to be dealt with. I'm sure that something will eventually be worked out. It's just human nature that when one is faced with an unexpected issue one looks for someone or something to blame even though some of the blame falls upon one's self.[/quote]

Although I wholeheartedly disagree with what PHX is saying here I would like to congratulate him for his use of tact ie there is nothing antagonising here and no references that may purposefully make a situation worse from my point of view. However, if I am speaking from a consumer perspective, if I ask something of someone who is selling me something, I should be able to trust them that they are telling me the truth. I am not asking you to comment from your perspective PHX, who has probably taken more flights than I have had hot dinners, I'm asking you to look at this from a young Argentine girl's perspective who has zero experience of flying, someone who has never left her country in her life. I'm asking you to think that if you were this girl and you had just asked what you need to travel and you were told that you need a passport and a return ticket, would you automatically then think that "Oh I may need a visa because the people from Delta who I have chosen to fly with have probably lied to me"?
This is nothing to do with who the blame lies with with, the point to all this email is whether it is ok that Delta can lie to my girlfriend and then tell her that it is all her fault. If they had told her it was her responsibility in the first place to find the info then we wouldn't have this problem. But they chose to say that she didn't need a visa and they haven't stood by this statement have they?

[mars6423]

phx and chris, who cares about spelling? this isnt a report or anything this is a forum and if your gonna go crazy over spelling than i would say that there are better things to do, if you can tell what the person is saying than thats all that matters

and phx when i was talking about a page on visa/documents needed throughout travel, there should be a whole page (not a linnk) that shows before purchase in which if it is an internatoinal destination, you check boxes that apply to you and than you click submit and on the next page it will tell you what documents are needed and clearly say please check government issued visa/documents to make sure, and if you dont want to do that progress than you can click skip

the one right thing that delta can do now is allow his gf to fly with them as soon as she has a visa for no charge (no change fee, no fee's, and she wont need a new ticket) and maybe even an upgrade......or another solution would be for delta to pass on the tickets to air france (interline agreement-not alliance member) so that she doesn't have to worry about the travel visa which is taking candy from a baby since its the same amount as staying a few weeks or days in the US

[chrisal]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

And just to add to the above...

There was another whiner on this forum who claimed he had no idea a visa would be required for a US citizen to enter Australia. If you scroll down furhter on the page mentioned above you'll see this:




So do you see that all you imbeciles who think you can just go jetting off anywhere you goddam please without checking entry and transit requirements. Even the friendly nation of Australia requires a visa from ALL VISITORS. So now don't go crying the blues when you're turned away at the airport for not having the proper visa to travel.

I never called you a whiner or an imbecile. I was referring to someone else who posted months ago on a situation involving a visa to visit Australia. - quote from PHX

Hmmm I don't quite understand when you say that "all you imbeciles who think you can jet off somewhere without checking requirements", doesn't include me and isn't a reference at calling me an imbecile (not to mention a whiner). Surely from the standpoint you have taken all along, you think that I do think that I can just jet off anywhere without checking (even though you know this isn't true as you know that my girlfriend did ask Delta what she would need to travel and you also know that she checked the British Embassy for entry requirements) and if you do think this, that I can jet off anywhere without checking, then you are putting me in the same bracket as "All you imbeciles", no?

"So now don't go crying the blues when you're turned away at the airport for not having the proper visa to travel." I'm just wondering what this comment was supposed to serve. I think it is taken from the same gloaters, inflamatory phrasebook that you got the old "Take a look in the mirror" chestnut from. Or if it was supposed to help me out in some sort of constructive way I'd like to know how?

Anyway I'm getting a bit bored of all this writing back and forth as it is very petty and I feel like a silly little schoolgirl joining in with a childish slagging match that won't go anywhere apart from a bit of hair pulling. I'm off for a bit of sunbathing as it is red hot outside!

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by chrisal

Although I wholeheartedly disagree with what PHX is saying here I would like to congratulate him for his use of tact ie there is nothing antagonising here and no references that may purposefully make a situation worse from my point of view.

Thank you. Your comment is appreciated.

Originally Posted by chrisal

However, if I am speaking from a consumer perspective, if I ask something of someone who is selling me something, I should be able to trust them that they are telling me the truth. I am not asking you to comment from your perspective PHX, who has probably taken more flights than I have had hot dinners, I'm asking you to look at this from a young Argentine girl's perspective who has zero experience of flying, someone who has never left her country in her life. I'm asking you to think that if you were this girl and you had just asked what you need to travel and you were told that you need a passport and a return ticket, would you automatically then think that "Oh I may need a visa because the people from Delta who I have chosen to fly with have probably lied to me"?

Please, please, PLEASE don't take this the wrong way, but from your statement (which I've bold faced) above may I assume you've never purchased a used vehicle? If you take one life lesson from this whole experience let it be this. Never, and I mean NEVER, trust that a salesperson will provide full disclosure. A salesperson has one goal and that is to part you from your money. It matters not if it's an automobile or an airline ticket they will try to make the buying decision as simplified as possible and if that means glossing over some details then they will. The car you're about to buy could have been at the bottom of a river last week and you'll never know until it rains and the interior smells of dead fish!

Originally Posted by chrisal

This is nothing to do with who the blame lies with with, the point to all this email is whether it is ok that Delta can lie to my girlfriend and then tell her that it is all her fault. If they had told her it was her responsibility in the first place to find the info then we wouldn't have this problem. But they chose to say that she didn't need a visa and they haven't stood by this statement have they?

If you go back to my very first post on this thread you'll see that I stated the airline was to blame for the part they played in this mess namely giving your girlfriend wrong information. I did, however, also say that it would have been prudent for either you or your girlfriend to double-check the accuracy of that information. I have occasion to call the various airlines I fly on several times a year. If ever I have a complicated situation I carefully research their policies first and if I'm told something different I will challenge it. If the challenge is unsuccessful in resolving the situation then I'll simply call back and speak to a different and hopefully better trained agent who is aware of the correct policy or procedure. The fact is she spoke to one person, a sales agent, and unfortunately took that person's word as "gospel truth." If there is a lesson to be learned here it is you can't believe everything you are told especially over the phone by agents who are contracted to do nothing more than read a script. Perhaps the pages of that agent's script stuck together while he was speaking with your girlfriend.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by mars6423

the one right thing that delta can do now is allow his gf to fly with them as soon as she has a visa for no charge (no change fee, no fee's, and she wont need a new ticket) and maybe even an upgrade......or another solution would be for delta to pass on the tickets to air france (interline agreement-not alliance member) so that she doesn't have to worry about the travel visa which is taking candy from a baby since its the same amount as staying a few weeks or days in the US

I doubt Delta would endorse the ticket for use on Air France since they wouldn't get any money out of the deal. The money the OP paid for the ticket would go to Air France after settlement. Even if they did endorse they would certainly have to up-charge for the fare as I assume this was a deeply discounted advance purchase fare and the OP wants to travel sometime before Christmas. Even if there was an advance purchase fare to be had the planes are full because of holiday travel so I doubt those lower fare buckets have any inventory anyway.

Bottom line if the OP (and by OP I mean the girlfriend) has any hope of traveling on the same ticket for around the same price paid they will have to stick with Delta and the routing through Atlanta.

[chrisal]

PHX I think we've been going round in circles for a long time now. I do agree with you that lessons have been learnt and I will never believe a single thing that a salesperson tells me ever again. I still have the bitter taste in my mouth and am still wondering how Delta are getting away with it with me and probably with a lot of other "imbeciles". That my girlfriend actually asked Delta what she would need to travel on this trip (it would probably never occur to some people who were travelling via the USA to their destination that they need a transit visa) and was lied to just makes it a whole lot worse. And the fact that Delta refuse to help in any way (even though they told her she didn't need a visa) saying that it wasn't their job to say anything (so why did they say something?) makes it even worse still.
Lessons have been learnt by myself but I very much doubt that lessons are being learnt by Delta whose sad little inbred callcentre workers are probably still getting away with telling the passenger that all they need to travel is a bucket and spade and a toblerone! This is what is getting to me (well along with everything else that has been happening, you included!)

[jimworcs]

Phx,
You have hit on something I agree with. The standard of service you can expect from Delta is comparable with the standard of service you would expect from second hand car salesman.

I wonder how far you would take this "check everything they tell you before you fly" rule you advocate. Should they check that Delta do in fact own airplanes and the timings they have advised are real? Is anything an airline tells you reliable? If so, how is a customer supposed to decide which information should be checked or not?

The real issue here is not the behaviour of the customer. The customer checked the immigration requirements for the UK as this was their destination. They booked the flights and were offered a routing which was via Atlanta. When advised the routing was via Atlanta the customer had the foresight to ask the airline whether they needed a visa to change planes in Atlanta. Given that Delta is the dominant carrier in Atlanta and transports millions of people every year, it was perfectly reasonable for the traveller to ask this. Delta then gave poor advice to the customer, WHICH the customer relied upon.

These are all things which fall under the category of "stuff happens". Delta made a mistake.. and lots of companies make mistakes. It is what happened next that creates the problem.

All Delta had to do was make a good faith effort to "make it right". All they had to do was listen to the tape.. if the customer is right then take responsibility for the problem and do what they can to fix it.

Instead, Delta stonewalled the customer with rebukes and resorting to "its in the small print" type bull****. The ticket was purchased on the phone and the customer in that situation is dependent on the honesty or reliability of the salesperson.

There is little Delta can do about the ridiculous, paranoid regulations imposed by the US government in relation to transit passengers. However, they are in an alliance with AF, and anyone with basic knowledge of routes could have come up with a possible solution by re-routing the customer via CDG. They instead preferred to treat the customer with contempt AND hosility and accept no responsibility for their actions.

The legacies are arrogant monopolists.. but in the long run they will come unstuck. They increasingly rely on revenues from their international routes and the gap between their service and that of their international competitors is widening, which will be reflected in the numbers of passengers they can attract.

The fact that people on this website will defend them no matter how egregious their conduct reflects one thing... at this point, Americans are getting the standard of service they deserve.

[jimworcs]

Chris,
Not sure if this helps, but here are some senior Delta people you might want to email. Be respectful, they will bin abuse:

Beth Reed
Director, customer care
(404) 715-1402
beth.reed@delta.com


Tim Mapes
Vice president, marketing
(404) 715-2600
tim.mapes@delta.com

Perry Cantarutti
Vice president, sales and customer care
(404) 715-2600
perry.cantarutti@delta.com

Chief executive
Richard Anderson
Chief executive officer
(404) 715-2600
richard.anderson@delta.com

[chrisal]

Thanks for the email addresses Jim. I am going to send an email off to these lot straight away. I will be amazed if one of them turns out to be human but who knows. I'm sure they will be interested in my story in one way or another anyway plus the fact that I have sent detailed emails of my story to every paper in the UK. I still intend to do the same with the American papers and the Argie press too when I get a moment.
Tomorrow I'm off to the Delta office in Buenos Aires again to try and get them to change my girlfriend's ticket to an open ticket which she can use later in the year. There is a charge for this of 250 USD but when we originally spoke to the manager last Sat night (exactly a week ago) he personally promised that if she wanted to change the date on her ticket, he would arrange to do it free of charge. He is the only person who has actually admitted that Delta are to blame for all of this (not by admitting it out loud, but by offering us this gesture of a free ticket change). However, this is not to say he will honour his word as he does work for Delta! If they do agree to change it free of charge, we are going to buy a ticket with Iberia that flies via Madrid and London to get to Manchester. They are probs the cheapest of a quite pricey bunch.Tam were much cheaper a few months ago but their prices have shot up recently. So we will buy a ticket with Iberia for my gf hopefully for this week and then I will fly with Delta on my ticket on the same day. My gf's brother will pay for the ticket on his credit card and we will pay him back over the course of the year. This solves all problems re visa issues and losing my gf's Delta ticket. Mind the thought of having to fly with these sick scumbags does make my skin crawl a bit.
It is just a shame that Delta didn't see fit to help me with any of this, since it was their moronic lies that put me here in the first place. I only hope that a paper prints this story and helps to bring these evil mothers down.

By the way Jim, you aren't a carpenter by trade? I only ask because you continually manage to hit the nail right on the head every time! PHX perhaps your trade is blind carpenter?

[jimworcs]

lol.. no, I am not a carpenter, but I had a bitter experience with Delta over a decade ago, when I was abandoned by Delta penniless and without any help. If BA had not come to the rescue I would have had no means of getting home. They told me bare faced lies and I have never flown with them again. I have taken every opportunity to let people know the culture of the company and the lack of ethics of their employees.

[chrisal]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

All of the current travel restrictions, transit visa requirements, etc. are a result of and were instated during the George W. Bush administration. Actually you should blame him and his Republican xenophobic cronies for the situation you find yourself in now.

Really PHX? So are you trying to say that G Dub is the Delta call centre worker who lied to my girlfriend about what she needed to travel, because it isn't daft George and his paranoid fascist system that is ruining my holidays.....it's that thick dummy in the call centre!!

God, I'm finding it very hard to use words like "thick dummy" instead of what I really want to say. Thick dummy just makes my situation sound so trivial, but I don't want to go insulting anyone's ears again.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Once you've rid yourself of your last Delta ticket if you ever need to travel EZE to UK; elsewhere in Europe, or vice versa, you might consider paying a bit more to use Lufthansa ("LH") LH is one of the few airlines, on the face of the earth today, that remain profitable, and their service and attitudes reflect that profitability. They fly EZE to Manchester with one connection in Frankfurt. British Air ("BA") might be able to get you to Newcastle, one-stop. However the latter's service, to my understanding, has deteriorated to the levels of many US-based carriers. Perhaps Jim might have some thoughts on the current state of BA service.

Since I have regularly cited LH as an example of a well-run airline I expect those "sympathizers," who post regularly, will do an "eye roll" and/or post some smart a** remark.

In any case, for travel from EZE to Europe, I, seriously, think one couldn't do any worse with Cubana ("CU") (probable overnight in Havana), when compared to a US based carrier. However, with CU, you DEFINITELY will need a transit visa.

[mars6423]

butch i think everyone would agree that lufthansa, singapore airlines, asiana, cathay, virgin, and a few others are great airlines that are customer oriented, even though they are more costly, but for an international flight i would pay that extra money no questions asked

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by Butch Cassidy Slept Here

Once you've rid yourself of your last Delta ticket if you ever need to travel EZE to UK; elsewhere in Europe, or vice versa, you might consider paying a bit more to use Lufthansa ("LH") LH is one of the few airlines, on the face of the earth today, that remain profitable, and their service and attitudes reflect that profitability. They fly EZE to Manchester with one connection in Frankfurt.

Beat ya to it, Butch 'ol boy. Snt that suggestion to him in a PM 2 days ago!

[jimworcs]

Whilst BA may not be quite what it was, there is still a gulf between the service standard on BA and US based carriers... but I agree Lufty would provide an excellent service.

The bottom line is that the risk of flying a US based carrier is too great. You are likely to face significant delay's in their fortress hubs, particularly during peak times. If things go wrong you will face woefully inadequate standards of customer service with little or no regulation to support you. In addition, you are faced with the bereaucratic nightmare of the immigration and homeland security rules. I would never choose to travel and particularly transit, with a US based airline unless there was no choice. They are sometimes the cheapest, but they are NEVER the best value.

[chrisal]

If I had the option of cutting off my testicles and paying an extra million pounds if it meant not flying with an American airline, I would definitely take it!

[jimworcs]

Have you consulted with your girlfriend about that decision? She may have something to say about that!!

[JR in Orlando]

One piece of information that is missing is what the exact inquiry was by the girlfriend during this telephone conference with Delta. Remember this was before she purchased the ticket. Was the discussion based on "what do I need to get into England" or was it "what do I need to transit through America." Since we only have that telephone call by way of second-hand summaries and not actual quotes, we really don't know what was said by the girlfriend or to what Delta was responding.

Since she is an inexperienced international flyer (having never left her country) she may have limited her inquiry or it may have been a generalized inquiry - If I fly to England, what do I need to enter? It is hardly reasonable to blame Delta until we have this information. If she was so inexperienced, why didn't Chrisal make the telephone call on something so important?

Also, there have been numerous stories and news articles about people, I think from India, being stuck with airline problems in the Paris Airport because they did not have a visa to leave the airport while in transit. This would seem to make anyone flying more conscious of the document requirements of intervening airports.

[chrisal]

Originally Posted by JR in Orlando

One piece of information that is missing is what the exact inquiry was by the girlfriend during this telephone conference with Delta. Remember this was before she purchased the ticket. Was the discussion based on "what do I need to get into England" or was it "what do I need to transit through America." Since we only have that telephone call by way of second-hand summaries and not actual quotes, we really don't know what was said by the girlfriend or to what Delta was responding.

Since she is an inexperienced international flyer (having never left her country) she may have limited her inquiry or it may have been a generalized inquiry - If I fly to England, what do I need to enter? It is hardly reasonable to blame Delta until we have this information. If she was so inexperienced, why didn't Chrisal make the telephone call on something so important?

JR, my girlfriend rang up the call centre and made full enquiries regarding the flight from Buenos Aires to Manchester with a stop in Atlanta. She asked about price, times, and what she would need to travel on this trip. It was at this point that she was told she would need a return ticket and a passport. The Delta worker has obviously answered the question with only final destination in mind and not thought about the fact she would need the transit visa to enter the states. It really is that simple JR! She asked and she was given bad info. I have asked Delta to listen to the conversation but they refuse, as they have with everything I have suggested.
Just because she is an inexperienced traveller it doesn't mean that she can't ask what she needs to travel. You ask why I didn't make the enquiry instead of her because I'm more experienced. But it has no relevance as to how many planes I have travelled in. My girlfriend has exactly the same capabilities as me for asking what do I need to travel on this trip?

I think what people need to understand here is that Delta have misinformed my girlfriend here in a gigantic way, and now instead of trying to help us out of this huge hole we find ourselves in, they seem to be doing everything in their power to bury us.

[jimworcs]

Also, there have been numerous stories and news articles about people, I think from India, being stuck with airline problems in the Paris Airport because they did not have a visa to leave the airport while in transit. This would seem to make anyone flying more conscious of the document requirements of intervening airports.

This has no relevance to this situation. The passengers travelling from Canada to India were transiting Paris without a visa. They did not need one to transit... however, Air France cancelled the flight from CDG to India and as a result the Indian Nationals needed to be accommodated overnight in an airport hotel. The passengers had done nothing wrong and did not travel without the correct documentation. It was the handling of the matter by Air France that was contentious AND the bureaucracy of the immigration, which took far too long to approve them being allowed to stay at one of the airport hotels.

You seriously think a bunch of indian nationals, travelling from Canada to India via CDG made the news in Argentina? This example should have made his girlfriend more conscious of the documents required? If so, why didn't this make the Delta employees, who work in the airline industry, more conscious of the requirements? What is it about people who will defend anything the airline industry does... it is ridiculous.

[chrisal]

News update. After deciding there was nothing more I can do here I decided it was time to go to the Delta office and organise them to get me on the next flight home. We arranged with Delta to change my gf's ticket to an open ticket which she can use anytime over the coming year, so that we can go with another airline that doesn't transit in the USA. I was disgusted, after all that has happened to me that the best they can give me is the 23rd of December arriving into Manchester, which is nowhere near where I live, on the 25th at 8am. Because it is Xmas they are also treating me to a 12 hour wait in Atlanta airport on Christmas Eve, which will be wonderful! They go on to say that because I bought my ticket in a travel agents (over a year ago now) it is impossible for them to upgrade me to a higher class on a flight that leaves sooner than the 23rd. Not only this but, because I am changing my ticket I have to pay a hundred pounds charge.
Now before someone comes on and starts shouting their stupid mouth off at me, I spoke to the manager of Delta at the airport when all of this first happened on the 5th. He assured me that if it was possible to put us on a higher tariff in order for us to get home sooner, he would be able to organise this as it would be within the confines of Delta. I asked the girls if they could organise this for me and they tell me that it is impossible to do that on my ticket. I asked them to call the manager and they said they couldn't do that either. So rather disgustedly I had to take them up on the offer of the 23rd flight. Not only will my Christmas be wrecked by Delta but so will my brother's who has volunteered to get out of bed at 4 on Xmas Day morning to drive all the way to Manchester and back up to Newcastle.
My disgust continued, as the girl in the office casually told me that I could pick up my ticket from the airport on the night of my flight after the 100 ponds fine has been paid. I asked her WTF she was talking about and she said that this was the fine for changing the flight. But we had earlier discussed this and she was aware that I had told her that the manager in the airport had already told me that I wouldn't need to pay any fines for changing my ticket. I told her to ring the manager up but she said no. I have never heard so many nos in all my life than those that come from Delta. They are such a negatively customer focused organisation, I cannot believe it. She told me that I would have to speak to the manager at the airport when I fly and ask for his opermission not to charge me then. It is crazy that all of the problems with Delta are continuing to plague me. Even now I can't relax because I have to wait til the night I fly to see if they are going to charge me for my ticket change. I have been given the word of the manager that he won't charge me but unfortunately he works for Delta and all dealings I have had with Delta upto this moment have been negative and dishonest. I cannot believe that after all that has happened to me there is still no sign of compassion or any help from Delta whatsoever.

[jimworcs]

I would be nervous about the fact that they have not given you a ticket. BA will likely be on strike on that date, which will put enormous pressure on other airlines on the route. Not giving you a ticket suggests that you may not be confirmed and travelling "standby". I suggest that you ask when the Manager who gave you his word is next working and go in and talk to him face to face. You are getting the Delta treatment you can expect.. they are very arrogant and anti-customer, but you may find the odd one or two people who are not so hostile. Good luck