[ggolden]

My 19 year old daughter was on flight #154 leaving San Diego going to Philly. she was never carded and served bottles of wine amongst other alcohol by the flight atttendents. when she got off the plane in philly for flight 3468, she was not allowed on the plane because they said she was intoxicated! they served her, she was traveling alone and because of the delay, i missed a day of work. i am requesting that i be refunded the expense of the ticket because of us airways wrecklessness. something could have happened to her safety to say the least. When she boarded the flight in San Diego, she was sober, when she got offf the flight in Philly they said she was intoxicated. You are not allowed to bring any more than 3 oz of liquid aboard the plane. They absolutely served a minor and want a refund. they should be lucky there is no law suit!
Gail Golden, Jaime's mom

[mars6423]

Are you going to have a talk or punish your daughter in any way? She shouldn't ask for the alcohol so some of the responsibilities are on her, and I'm sure she isn't like oh no they gave me alcohol, most likely crap now how to explain that I drink when I shouldn't but blame everyone but me

Honestly though at 19 she is an adult and should be able to find a way home through a friend or taxi instead of making you miss a day off work

Yes they should have checked ID and shouldn't have served her, and they should take responsibility and your daughter was lucky that she wasn't questioned by the cops at the airport, and teens will ask their seat companion aka adult next to them to get alcohol for them as it has happened to me on more than one occasion

It's your daughters responsibility as much if not more than the airlines and your not going to get a refund for your daughters actions sorry

[jimworcs]

Your daughter, at age 19 is a fully functioning adult. She could enrol in the military and be making life and death decisions in Afghanistan. Men and women aged 19 have died on behalf of your daughters freedom. She abused her freedom to break the law. She knew what she was doing. The FA's didn't force her to drink.

It is ridiculous to suggest that she is incapable or not responsible for her actions. Your letter of complaint and seeking compensation from US Airways for the dishonesty and irresponsibility of your daughter illustrates just how far the "litigation culture" has developed in the US. If you missed a days work, make your daughter work and pay you the money. If your daughter missed her flight, punish her for her actions.

It is utterly disheartening when people are incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions.

None of what I have written excuses US Airways from their legal obligation to make sure that they serve alcohol in accordance with the law. But your daughter chose to knowingly break the law. US Airways unwittingly broke the law. There is a difference and the fact that you can't see that is a shame.

[ggolden]

yes, you are right. she shouldn't have drank the alcohol but us airways broke the law by serving a minor. ofcourse a 19 year old will take the alcohol if they can get away with it and that's exactly what she did. was she wrong? yes, absolutely. But who is the one that was really irresponsible? US Airways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am 46 years old and I have been carded before because certain venues card EVERYONE! With terrorism and old ladies having to take off their shoes and the 3 oz. rule, shame on us airways for serving a minor. Ofcourse the atttendants are going to deny this, they will lose their job. The two European men that were buying the alcohol used their debit card so because they don't have her debit card on record they say it cant be proven. what about the women attendant who said, "honey, can i get you another wine?" she still has her job and that to me is disgusting. All 3 of them got yelled at the entire flight for being loud, obnoxious and drunk while people were trying to sleep. If they got her drunk (us airways) then they should have allowed her on her connecting flight in Philly. End of story!!!!!!! 19 year olds are going to try and get away with what they can, but flight atttendants are there for your safety and to keep you safe. this was not the case with my daughter and will be further pursued, newspaper, tv, etc.

[NewJerseyDevils]

Originally Posted by ggolden

yes, you are right. she shouldn't have drank the alcohol but us airways broke the law by serving a minor. ofcourse a 19 year old will take the alcohol if they can get away with it and that's exactly what she did. was she wrong? yes, absolutely. But who is the one that was really irresponsible? US Airways!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am 46 years old and I have been carded before because certain venues card EVERYONE! With terrorism and old ladies having to take off their shoes and the 3 oz. rule, shame on us airways for serving a minor. Ofcourse the atttendants are going to deny this, they will lose their job. The two European men that were buying the alcohol used their debit card so because they don't have her debit card on record they say it cant be proven. what about the women attendant who said, "honey, can i get you another wine?" she still has her job and that to me is disgusting. All 3 of them got yelled at the entire flight for being loud, obnoxious and drunk while people were trying to sleep. If they got her drunk (us airways) then they should have allowed her on her connecting flight in Philly. End of story!!!!!!! 19 year olds are going to try and get away with what they can, but flight atttendants are there for your safety and to keep you safe. this was not the case with my daughter and will be further pursued, newspaper, tv, etc.

I'm glad I wasn't on that flight.
Funny how you aren't mad about 2 men liqueuring up your daughter. They were the ones who bought her the alcohol. Instead of notifying Channel 6 Action news, maybe you should have a talk with your daughter because if that happened at a club, and not in an airport terminal with a lot of people, she could have found herself in a bad situation.

[azstar]

A few years ago US Air was found guilty, and liable, for serving alcohol to an intoxicated passenger who subsequently got in his car upon arrival in Albuquerque and killed several people on his way home from the airport. US Airways was fined and every flight attendant was required to learn N.M. liquor laws. They were prohibited (maybe still are) from serving alcohol on any flight arriving/departing New Mexico until all cabin crew had received the training. So, cabin crews are absolutely responsible for the alcohol they serve on board.

[mars6423]

the fact still is, your daughter was the one responsible, no matter which way you look at it, SHE HAD TO ASK for the alcohal so thats her responsibility not to ask, why not ask for a coke or juice instead of going straight for the beer/hard liqour what ever she had?

yes us airways is responsible, but not to the extent of your daughter

US airways didnt get your daughter drunk though, they didnt physically force alcohal down her throat, she made the choice to, both of you need to understand that and take responsibility for that. Would she have gotten drunk if she didnt ask for it? no, see your daughter made her choice and kept going making it her fault for getting drunk

the airline shouldnt have served her and should have checked ID but its still your daughters (and yours as a mother) to make the decision of not breaking the law, and laws are put in place for a reason, if you agree with them or not, your daughter broke the law

Jim and I both agree that US Airways should have carded, but it is still your daughters responsibility to not take the alcohal and not ask, i hope you can see your daughter is in the wrong too and i hope you have a discussion with her about drinking because without it being monitered teens feel that they can do whatever and get away with it

there are tons of teenagers who think that they can drive drunk and nothing will happen, they think they are invincable and next thing you know they are wrapped around a pole or have hit someone else, but they never think it will happen to them, seen it happen more than enough

your daughter doesnt seem like no angel

[jimworcs]

Your attitude towards your daughter is shocking. Would you say that if she steals, that is what 19 years olds do? You seem to be missing the fundamental point. Your daughter is an adult!

Your daughter didn't purchase the alcohol, so the attendants didn't card her. The alcohol was purchased by two European men. If they were over 21, then no law was broken in selling the alcohol to them. US Airways did not break the law selling alcohol.

In the vast majority of countries in the world, alcohol is legal to be sold and consumed by anyone over the age of 18. It is feasible that the men who purchased the alcohol for your daughter didn't know the law relating to alcohol consumption in the US. It is far from straightforward. This is it...

The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 states that revenue will be withheld from states that allow the purchase of alcohol by anyone under the age of 21. Prior to the effective date of that Act, the drinking age varied from state to state. Some states do not allow those under the legal drinking age to be present in liquor stores or in bars (usually, the difference between a bar and a restaurant is whether food is being served). Contrary to popular belief, since the act went into law, few states specifically prohibit minors and young adults from consuming alcohol in private settings. As of January 1, 2007, 14 states and the District of Columbia ban underage consumption outright, 19 states do not specifically ban underage consumption, and an additional 17 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage consumption laws.
Federal law explicitly provides for religious, medical, employment and private club possession exceptions; as of 2005, 31 states have family member and/or location exceptions to their underage possession laws. However, non-alcoholic beer in many (but not all) states, such as Idaho, Texas, and Maryland, is considered legal for minors (those under the age of 21).[14]
By a judge's ruling, South Carolina appears to allow the possession and consumption of alcohol by those 18 to 20 years of age,[15] though a circuit court judge said otherwise.

Your attempt to pass the blame from your daughter's irresponsible and deceptive behaviour on to a third party may explain why she has such a poor moral compass and appears to feel that the law doesn't apply to her. You compound the problem by the very poor example you are showing her with your conduct. She is not the victim of US Airways.. she is the victim of bad parenting.
Now, US Airways is not, in my book, off the hook. It sounds like the FA's took inadequate action to address the developing situation. This is a common problem on airlines. They deserve criticism, but you have no proof whatsoever that the law was broken by anyone other than your daughter and possibly the European's who bought her the drink. As your daughter is clearly a liar, it is perfectly possible that she told the European's she was 21 and was believed.
In any event, no matter how remiss US Airwasys were in their actions, they pale by comparison to the conduct of you and your daughter. She has no moral compass and seeks to blame others for her failings... and sadly she will never learn the lesson with the kind of equivocal, inadequate parenting you are providing.

[cortney]

maybe i misread something or skipped something so please somebody correct me if im wrong. first you say that usairways served her the alcohol...ok i got that. however then you stated that 2 older men were buying the alcohol and put it on their credit/debit card. now if thats the case how was usairways to know that the men were buying her the alcohol for her to drink. your daughter knew on what was wrong or right im agreeing with Jim on this one. punish your daughter it was her fault.

[stevicus]

Back in my day, the legal drinking age was 19. I made it just in time before they raised it to 21.

Just out of curiosity, what criteria do they use to determine if someone is "too drunk" to board an aircraft?

The reason I ask this is because one time, on New Year's Day in 1990, my flight out of Phoenix was delayed by several hours, so I killed time watching football and drinking beer in the airport bar. By the time it came to boarding the plane, I was feeling no pain. They didn't stop me from boarding, but I wasn't very obvious about it either. It would seem to me that someone would have to be falling down drunk, making a scene, or otherwise very obvious about it in order to be barred from boarding the aircraft.

[bilingual]

Originally Posted by azstar

A few years ago US Air was found guilty, and liable, for serving alcohol to an intoxicated passenger who subsequently got in his car upon arrival in Albuquerque and killed several people on his way home from the airport. US Airways was fined and every flight attendant was required to learn N.M. liquor laws. They were prohibited (maybe still are) from serving alcohol on any flight arriving/departing New Mexico until all cabin crew had received the training. So, cabin crews are absolutely responsible for the alcohol they serve on board.

This is - sorry to say - totally ridicoulous, what kind of society is that, where not a single person takes responsibility for his/her own actions?
He bought alcohol and chose to ride a car, how on earth is this the fault of the airline?

[ggolden]

I am mad at the two men that paid for the alcohol, but they are from Europe and don't have any way of contacting them. and besides, that still doesn't excuse the airlines for serving a minor. If a bartender at a bar did that the bar gets fined and could lose their liquor license. they broke the law, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by NewJerseyDevils

I'm glad I wasn't on that flight.
Funny how you aren't mad about 2 men liqueuring up your daughter. They were the ones who bought her the alcohol. Instead of notifying Channel 6 Action news, maybe you should have a talk with your daughter because if that happened at a club, and not in an airport terminal with a lot of people, she could have found herself in a bad situation.

[ggolden]

did iu ever hear of being "shut off" if intoxicated. it happens at bars all the time!

Originally Posted by bilingual

This is - sorry to say - totally ridicoulous, what kind of society is that, where not a single person takes responsibility for his/her own actions?
He bought alcohol and chose to ride a car, how on earth is this the fault of the airline?

[ggolden]

She was carrying a 50 lb bag and her carry on by herself. hard to do sober. i probably would be a little unsteady also!

Originally Posted by stevicus

Back in my day, the legal drinking age was 19. I made it just in time before they raised it to 21.

Just out of curiosity, what criteria do they use to determine if someone is "too drunk" to board an aircraft?

The reason I ask this is because one time, on New Year's Day in 1990, my flight out of Phoenix was delayed by several hours, so I killed time watching football and drinking beer in the airport bar. By the time it came to boarding the plane, I was feeling no pain. They didn't stop me from boarding, but I wasn't very obvious about it either. It would seem to me that someone would have to be falling down drunk, making a scene, or otherwise very obvious about it in order to be barred from boarding the aircraft.

[cortney]

ggolden...i dont think your getting this. the 2 men BOUGHT the alcohol for your daughter...how was the airline to know that they were going to give it to her...they didn't. therefore they didn't know that they could be serving a minor. for all they knew the 2 OF AGE people were drinking. you said so yourself that they paid and bought the alcohol. IMO your daughter is more at fault than the airline or even the 2 guys that bought her the alcohol

[mars6423]

so let me guess your going to take this to the media but "forget" to mention that they didnt directly serve your daughter alcohal but to the 2 european men next to her who gave it to them, and in europe the drinking age is 18 so they may not have known especially if they were on vacation that A) the drinking age here is 21 and B) that your daughter is underage

stop putting blame on other people and look at the problem, your daughter drank alcohal and you dont want to take responsibility for that and neither does she. She is the one that was in the wrong and illegally drank, and i am sure she drinks at home as you dont just start on a plane, and she should be taught to obide by the rules.

Did US Airways serve her alcohal? No, the two guys did because your daughter asked them to, is it their fault? no because they didnt think they were doing anything wrong as they dont know the drinking age, and they were asked to by your daughter.
It is your daughters fault and responsibility, no one elses and she shouldnt get a free pass.

Your accusing everyone but the guilty party and thats your daughter, she needs to learn right from wrong and children learn from their parents. I advise you to pay more attention to your daughter than worrying about a refund a missed day at work etc.

Do you want a flight attendant hovering over your daugter the whole time to make sure she doesnt drink any alcohal? there would have to be alot of them on some flights in that case because at spring break they would need to watch out for each underage person. But then we would hear that the flight attendant was harrasing and other things

Show your daughter an example and take responsibility, its not US Airways fault as they didnt know that she was given alcohal, its her fault and her fault only

[stevicus]

Originally Posted by ggolden

She was carrying a 50 lb bag and her carry on by herself. hard to do sober. i probably would be a little unsteady also!

I don't think I had any carry-on luggage at the time I was referring to, other than a light backpack. But I'm sure they could have smelled it on me.

I'll admit that I've had a few drinks when I was underage, so I can sympathize somewhat. But it was a stupid risk on my part. Fortunately, I never got caught and I caused no injury or damage, but it was still a pretty dumb thing to be doing. If I had caused any damage or injury, then the fault would have been surely mine.

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know how this would be viewed legally. However, I do recall a recent case here in Tucson where a woman who was driving drunk ran over a kid on a bicycle and killed him. She was convicted of criminal charges and is still in prison right now, if I'm not mistaken. But there was also a wrongful death civil suit which named the woman, the place where she was drinking (a local restaurant), and the city (for allegedly poor lighting and no bike lane on the road in question). If I recall correctly, the court determined that the woman was 60% responsible for the accident, while the remaining responsibility was leveled against the restaurant (which settled out of court) and the city.

[NewJerseyDevils]

Originally Posted by ggolden

I am mad at the two men that paid for the alcohol, but they are from Europe and don't have any way of contacting them. and besides, that still doesn't excuse the airlines for serving a minor. If a bartender at a bar did that the bar gets fined and could lose their liquor license. they broke the law, plain and simple.

Actually the men who gave her the wine broke the law and your daughter did for drinking the wine and getting intoxicated and disrupting that flight and other passengers enjoyment. You're daughter is very lucky that not listening to the FA's repeated instructions to quiet down she didn't have some of Philly's finest waiting for her at the gate or that the men didn't have anything more sinister in mind.

[DazedNadConfused]

I am new here but will jump in. From the appearance of things there were 3 groups at fault; the airline, the "Europeans", and your little angel. The first two, it could be argued, could be considered negligent in providing alcohol to a minor (state law governing....where the heck they actually were and what pre-determined locality would prosecute). You daughter, on the other hand, had intent - she knows what the drinking age is in the US.

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by stevicus

Just out of curiosity, what criteria do they use to determine if someone is "too drunk" to board an aircraft?

That you appear to be under the influence. If you are able to walk in a straight fashion past me when handing me your boarding pass, and you aren't slurring your speech, then you will make it. However if you are stumbling around and you say to me "Hiiiiiiii Mither gate person", with your hand holding your boarding pass going all over the place, well, your chances of getting past just got reduced to zero.

We have had occasions where a flight attendant will tell us at boarding that they need a passenger removed because they are drunk or high. The question comes up how did they even make it down the aircraft. The answer is simply they were able to walk just fine going past the gate agent, and many people don't say anything as they board. Reminds me of one incident in which a lady got past the gate agent, but about 1/3 of the way down the jetway fell and couldn't get back up. Long story short she was wasted on prescription pain meds.

While we do get training on what effects the common drugs will have, we are not trained to make a determination as to which ones you are on. So it's simply that you appear to be under the influence. Period. Notice it's not under the influence of something in particular, and that does not just mean drunk.

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by ggolden

yes, you are right. she shouldn't have drank the alcohol but us airways broke the law by serving a minor.

OK, stop for a moment. You are wrong. Why? Because US Airways DIDN"T serve her the drinks. They served it the European guys, who then handed it to her.

And let's just take another step back for a moment. How do you know who really bought the drinks for her in the first place? Where are you getting any of this from? Your daughter? She just got herself plowed on a plane. So don't sit there and think that she's an angel otherwise. I guarantee you there is a WHOLE lot more to this story than she is telling you. She knew she was in for trouble, so she's leaving details out so she doesn't get in as much trouble.

Originally Posted by ggolden

"honey, can i get you another wine?"

Part of my point. If these words were said to your daughter I'd wager to guess it was from the men, not the flight attendant.

The problem is you have no way to go after whoever it was that bought her the booze so you are now trying to go after the airline, when in fact your daughter is half of the one to blame, and the airline is NOT the other half. But no, your not willing to look at your daughter as part of the problem here.

[stevicus]

Originally Posted by Jetliner

That you appear to be under the influence. If you are able to walk in a straight fashion past me when handing me your boarding pass, and you aren't slurring your speech, then you will make it. However if you are stumbling around and you say to me "Hiiiiiiii Mither gate person", with your hand holding your boarding pass going all over the place, well, your chances of getting past just got reduced to zero.

We have had occasions where a flight attendant will tell us at boarding that they need a passenger removed because they are drunk or high. The question comes up how did they even make it down the aircraft. The answer is simply they were able to walk just fine going past the gate agent, and many people don't say anything as they board. Reminds me of one incident in which a lady got past the gate agent, but about 1/3 of the way down the jetway fell and couldn't get back up. Long story short she was wasted on prescription pain meds.

While we do get training on what effects the common drugs will have, we are not trained to make a determination as to which ones you are on. So it's simply that you appear to be under the influence. Period. Notice it's not under the influence of something in particular, and that does not just mean drunk.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I think the main thing that gives me away is the smell of beer on my breath, so that's what I'm usually most self-conscious about in those situations.

I've heard of situations where people have speech impediments or neurological disorders which might make them appear drunk or high. I used to work with a guy who had a really nasty seizure disorder, and he took some pretty heavy-duty anti-seizure medications which made him appear somewhat "zombified." But if he ever had to go on an airplane, he would have someone like me or a family member go with him.

[Jetliner]

In your case I would take notice of the smell of alcohol, but if you don't show any other signs of being impaired the you would be OK. If you start staggering a bit, then we might have an issue.

It is true that there are other medical issues that can cause mimic being drunk or high, but we can also sort that out. If need be we can call the medics. Usually we will talk to you and we can figure things out. Those type of cases are rare anyway. In the case of your friend he's better having someone along anyway from a safety standpoint. If the plane has to be evacuated, would he be able to get himself off the plane? That's a key question we have to think about too.

[skipper386]

Originally Posted by ggolden

My 19 year old daughter was on flight #154 leaving San Diego going to Philly. she was never carded and served bottles of wine amongst other alcohol by the flight atttendents. when she got off the plane in philly for flight 3468, she was not allowed on the plane because they said she was intoxicated! they served her, she was traveling alone and because of the delay, i missed a day of work. i am requesting that i be refunded the expense of the ticket because of us airways wrecklessness. something could have happened to her safety to say the least. When she boarded the flight in San Diego, she was sober, when she got offf the flight in Philly they said she was intoxicated. You are not allowed to bring any more than 3 oz of liquid aboard the plane. They absolutely served a minor and want a refund. they should be lucky there is no law suit!
Gail Golden, Jaime's mom

I am not sure about this, but at the age of 19 your daughter should know what is an alcoholic drink or not, besides she is 19 as for me she no longer a underage, it is her responsibility now whether she will drink it or not, and the most important lesson is never let your daughter travel alone!

[travelingmom]

My sympathies are with you, Ggolden. Your concerns don't strike me as being overbearing but protective and needing semblance of apologies. However, in your daughter's case, it's a lose-lose situation with not much recourse for getting any kind of satisfaction other than your daughter perhaps learning an invaluable lesson.

And yet... Here's the tricky part-- what if the european men who purchased the drinks had intended to get her drunk and divert your daughter from her destination but go off with them? That's the more sinister 'what if' but this is something to truly sit down with your daughter and discuss in full about personal safety.

True, your daughter's an adult, but as an adult she needs to own up to self-responsibility and being careful about getting caught up with moments to which her security could become compromised. For instance, there will be most likely other future tests. If she's in college, she's in the mecca-central for booze binges and parties. There will be bars, dance clubs, raves, perhaps club socials, and not every guy out there's going to be a nice guy, she could possibly have a drug slipped to her, etc, so have that sit down talk with your daughter and encourage a pledge from her to maintain personal safety by agreeing to never drink alone in the company of strangers even if the surroundings, like being on a plane or train, as such offer false sense of security.

There's never any telling what a predator looks like or what circumstance may lead to danger. For instance, meeting 'friends' for the first time over the Internet (Facebook, Myspace, etc)... So encourage your daughter to always have a companion when meeting people from Internet, like, meet during afternoon in coffee houses, that kind of thing.

I realize my reply diverges some from your primary point but many people here have sane and reasonable feedback and suggestions. I don't feel these replies are telling you how to do your job as a mother-- you know anyways, but all the same, it is awfully heartbreaking to find how close to danger your kid got to, but thank goodness what she encountered were typical european men, where yes, the drinking age in France is around age 16 and wine is typically served to children during meals if you can believe it...

As for the airlines, at best all you may receive is a sympathetic ear but I'm not convinced you have much recourse for refund since she's over 18 and a legal adult. A judge or jury would find your daughter to be the responsible party and likely suggest fining her for breaking the law with underage drinking. Thus, by seeking 'satisfaction' (apology, refund, whichever), the door could be opened to the Airline flagging her as being a difficult flyer or something (don't know if that's done but do know flags are made with US Customs if ever traveling internationally).

Hopefully this is a 'one off' experience but in the event your daughter may have a drinking problem that's starting to show its head, you could steer her to a 12 step recovery group like AA and even find support for feedback on how to process all this through Alanon which is a 12 step recovery program for family and loved ones with drinking issues. The numbers are in the front of the phone directory world wide and plenty of college campuses have peer friendly groups that can be located through Student Health services.

At this point, while it's rough to let this one go, it seems to me that for your own sake, all you can really do is let this one go, but not in a stupid way-- have the talk of course, check things out, but know that judgment and punishment can lead to distancing and hiding drinking issues, yet with a compassionate approach, the door remains open and your care and views respected.

Hang in there.