[blake5377]

Hey everybody...

So me and 4 other people I was with were stuck at Frankfurt airport (going to NYC EWR-Newark) for 4 and half hours. They said there was mechanical problems that they were waiting for a part to be shipped in... Was pretty poorly managed...

Now, this was Lufthansa but co operated by Continental (it was a continental airplane though)
I heard from friends in europe, euro law states that after your plane has been delayed for more then 4 hours you could get free tickets again. Friends got free tickets for this such incident.

How does one go about this? Writing a complaint letter... Any recommendations... It was a business purpose flight, so I could mention my business and others I refer to will not recommend Lufthansa or continental. Maybe that might scare them.

Should I write it to Continental or Lufthansa? Or both?

Anybody have stories like this that you wrote letters do and got deals for future flights? Or discounts?

Thanks! Let me know!
-Blake

[blake5377]

Today I called CO... I gave them my complain and will follow up with an email to see what we would get... anything from a ticket voucher (free flight?) to free milage...

Which you think they will give me from this incident?

I also added that 3 of us were not received the proper special meals we requested... So they said 25 bucks off... (oh great, after 4 plus hours of waiting for a flight and then not getting the speical meal...) I could live but it just adds to the fact...

And for the first hour on the plane smelled some sort of toxic gas smell...
So I added this to the complaint... just to add it up, which I m wondering if it will help in the long run.

Should I just wait to see when or if they get bak to me? Or anything else you recommend?

Somebody else at CO said I would prob get a free flight out of my experience.... (who didnt work the complaint department)
So if they send me an email saying I just get a few bucks off or not many extra millage, what should I do?
Do you think 4 of us would get free tickets?

I mean in the end run we did make it back safely... but with mechanical delays (which today they said they were shipping a part to help close the door for the plane, and thats why it took 4.5 hours) So very odd how they had this problem even though the other flights which got them to Frankfurt were fine... odd...

What ya think? Free travel voucher? Or just milage?

Thanks!!

[Cicero]

TO THE OP:

You'll find a form at this site:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passen...ts_form_en.pdf

You print it and fill it out and first send it to Lufthansa. Give them about 6 weeks to respond, then send the form to the enforcement authority in Germany. You'll find the address of the enforcement authorities in all EU countries through a link on the form

In the EU delays due to mechanical problems are considered the responsibility of the airline for which compensation is due since the case of Wallentin-Hermann

[jimworcs]

The rules are laid out in EU Directive, 261/2004. For a delay of 4.5 hours you are entitled to reasonable food and drinks, and the right to a refund on your flight if you decide not to travel. If it is overnight you are entitled to accommodation, and transport to and from the hotel. You are also entitled to make up to two international phone calls at the airlines expense. You are certainly not entitled to free tickets for a delay of 4.5 hours.

In fact, being denied boarding or a cancellation of your flight provides you with considerably more rights than those afforded by an extended delay. You would be far better off if it was cancelled. You should pursue compensation from the airline you purchased your ticket from. If this was Lufthansa and they codeshare with Continental, your claim should be processed by Lufthansa. If you hold a Continental ticket, your claim should be processed by them. Travelling on a US based airline does not affect your rights.. the law applies to all airlines flying into and out of the EU. Anything they offer you which is above that which is laid out above is entirely at the discretion of the airline. I promise you this.. you will not get free tickets for that kind of delay.

[Cicero]

Jimworcs,

For years regulation 261/04 lent itself to the interpretation you have put on it that delayed passengers were entitled to food and drink only, and for delays over 5 hours they got accommodation, and that passengers on cancelled flights were better off when it came to compensation.

However the ECJ judgment in Sturgeon v Condor and Bock v Air France

http://www.lawreports.co.uk/WLRD/200..._v_Condor.html

given on 19th November 2009 held that delayed passengers whose flights arrived 3 or more hours after the scheduled time were entitled to cash compensation provided in Article 7 of Regulstion 261/04 which in the case of a flight from Frankfurt to New York would be 600 euros per person.

[jimworcs]

That is very interesting.. I am not a lawyer, but I am not fully clear on the circumstances. It seems in the case cited, the passengers were delayed and put on a later flight. However, in this case, the originally planned aircraft took off. Is this different? If not, can we now say that any delay over 3 hours merits €600 regardless of the cause unless it is "extraordinary circumstances"? That will be great if true...

[Cicero]

The complete judgment can be found at this site:
http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bi...&Submit=Submit

The reasoning was based on the principle of equal treatment. Delayed passengers are equally affected as those on cancelled flights and so should be treated equally. See the excerpt below.

It would seem that whether the delayed passengers got on another flight whether their same flight was delayed makes no difference to their situation.

The question of "extraordinary circumstances" remains a defence to the airline.

"48 In that regard, all Community acts must be interpreted in accordance with primary law as a whole, including the principle of equal treatment, which requires that comparable situations must not be treated differently and that different situations must not be treated in the same way unless such treatment is objectively justified ...

"50 In this instance, the situation of passengers whose flights are delayed should be compared with that of passengers whose flights are cancelled....

"69 In the light of the foregoing, the answer to the second part of the questions referred is that Articles 5, 6 and 7 of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that passengers whose flights are delayed may be treated, for the purposes of the application of the right to compensation, as passengers whose flights are cancelled and they may thus rely on the right to compensation laid down in Article 7 of the regulation where they suffer, on account of a flight delay, a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours, that is, where they reach their final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled by the air carrier."

[blake5377]

Hey everybody...

So after 3 weeks, I finally got some response from Continental...
They mailed me a apology letter and only 4,000 bonus miles (4k doesn't help anything)!
What do you think? Should I get more then just this? Maybe more like 10K Miles would be much better. Think I should Re-Contact them?
What is your honest opinion?

[jimworcs]

If the legal findings outlined below are applicable to your circumstances, and I not clear that they are, it might be worth one last effort of writing to them and actually quoting the law and these precedents. I would then offer a compromise agreement of 10,000 miles to not pursue the matter. I am not confident of your chances, and perusal of Cicero's other posts on this website suggests he is a bit of a nut, but the links seem genuine. What harm would it do to try it? Good luck.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by blake5377

Hey everybody...

So after 3 weeks, I finally got some response from Continental...
They mailed me a apology letter and only 4,000 bonus miles (4k doesn't help anything)!
What do you think? Should I get more then just this? Maybe more like 10K Miles would be much better. Think I should Re-Contact them?
What is your honest opinion?

My honest opinion is that you should take the 4000 miles and move on. Don't pay any attention to Mr Doofus Jimworcs. A retired hospital janitor like him has all the time but if you are a businessman, your time cannot be worth fighting for a few thousand more miles.

[blake5377]

I mean Im a busy guy, but its the fact of the matter of a corporate business like CO should treat costumers with respect (especially paying these high airfare prices again). Because frankly I ll fight this battle just to prove a point, because this isn't the first or last time somebody has been screwed over by this Corporation. And from the next business trips I take with my contacts, I could sway away ever buying (or giving business to) CO again.

What should my next steps be? Recommend any pointers to use? Or words that scare them away? Or talk with the EU air alliance to see what they could do to help.
Since a contact of mine got a free flight after 4 hours of a delayed EU to US flight.
Thanks everybody!

[blake5377]

Opinions, anybody?

[victoria stiles]

It is very frustrating moment, when you have to comprise with your work due to such problems.

[samson smith]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Jimworcs,

For years regulation 261/04 lent itself to the interpretation you have put on it that delayed passengers were entitled to food and drink only, and for delays over 5 hours they got accommodation, and that passengers on cancelled flights were better off when it came to compensation.

However the ECJ judgment in Sturgeon v Condor and Bock v Air France

http://www.lawreports.co.uk/WLRD/200..._v_Condor.html

given on 19th November 2009 held that delayed passengers whose flights arrived 3 or more hours after the scheduled time were entitled to cash compensation provided in Article 7 of Regulstion 261/04 which in the case of a flight from Frankfurt to New York would be 600 euros per person.

Very nice idea to provide good facilities to passengers by airport authorities, if the flight is delayed or canceled.

[victoria stiles]

Yes this is a nice link and the best way to help your passengers.

[samson smith]

If the flight is delayed or canceled due to any reason then it is the responsibility of airport authority to provide another source to passengers..!!