[cboado]

My husband and I flew from New York to Madrid, Spain with our 1 year-old twin daughters in July 2009. Our first trip with our babies, we assumed that we would receive some kind of assistance from Delta, at the very least, by allowing us to pre-board and/or getting bulkhead seats in order to give us more room to manuever with the babies. Not only were we given seats all the way in the back of the plane, but not one person was willing to give us any assistance or even allow us to pre-board in order to get ourselves settled before the rush of people entered the plane. I asked several different Delta representatives at check-in, and at the gate itself, if we could pre-board and no one even bothered to attempt to empathize. The standard, monotoned response from the emotionaless agents we got was "we don't pre-board anymore". Really?! Very compassionate of you Delta. That's the last time this traveling family will be using your "services".

[Gromit801]

Grinch/Scrooge mode: ON

Why do people with children, believe everyone else has to bow down and give them preference because they CHOSE to have kids?

Your kids, YOUR responsibility entirely to deal with them.

Another case of people wanting Nordstom service for Wall Mart prices. Better stay away from Southwest as well, they don't pre-board.

[justme]

Gromit, you have 100%, absolutely, unequivocally, nailed it on the head. Well said. Cheers.

[cboado]

no no, Gromit. You've misunderstood me. I don't expect to be given red carpet treatment by any means. But if you see someone holding a child with their hands full, wouldn't you be nice enough to hold the door open for them so it doesn't slam in their face? That's all we were asking for. It's just a question of common courtesy.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by cboado

no no, Gromit. You've misunderstood me. I don't expect to be given red carpet treatment by any means. But if you see someone holding a child with their hands full, wouldn't you be nice enough to hold the door open for them so it doesn't slam in their face? That's all we were asking for. It's just a question of common courtesy.

It's NOT the same thing. Of course any decent human being isn't going to allow a door to shut on someone possibly casing injury to the child, adult or both. That's just common decency. The last time I checked, though, the aircraft door isn't left swinging so it would potentially hit someone.

Here's the issue. "Pre-boarding" or "priority boarding" is something that is done to accommodate those with disabilities and is offered as a perk for those who paid for first/business class and those who have by their frequent patronage achieved elite status with the airline. Pregnancy and traveling with children isn't a disability. As Gromit801 reiterated (yes, it was "plagiarized" from this thread and originally stated by...moi) just because you have kids doesn't automatically give you a free pass to the front of the line. Allowing you and your brood special privileges only dilutes the benefit that others have earned.

[Gromit801]

Actually PHX, I was completely unaware of your other post. So it's my own thoughts.

I too sometimes have an armload of stuff: laptop, bag, camera equipment, etc. The number of times some family with children expected me to help them, or stand there with my arms about to fall off holding stuff, while they took 10-15 minutes getting their mob together and seated. Would preboarding help? Sure, especially if I could be the one preboarding.

IMHO, children under 5 shouldn't fly, they're not "portable" enough.

[jimworcs]

The lack of human decency and kindness on these boards never ceases to amaze me...

No courtesy, no kindness, no compassion.. just me, me, me.. Some people have "earned" pre-boarding, but god forbid that some basic courtesy is shown to a mother with a baby.

IMHO, children under 5 shouldn't fly, they're not "portable" enough

IMHO, ignorant neanderthals should not be able to fly, they're not civilized enough

[justme]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

As Gromit801 reiterated (yes, it was "plagiarized" from this thread and originally stated by...moi)

PHX, kudos to you as well IF you really did say it first!

[Gromit801]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

IMHO, ignorant neanderthals should not be able to fly, they're not civilized enough

An apt description of many parents I've come across, that feel just because they have kids, the whole world is supposed to treat them special. Sorry, not happening.

My ex and I never "inflicted' our kid on strangers, never had a stupid "Baby On Board" sign in the car (Translation: Baby On Board = I'm not paying attention to my driving, so I'll drive inattentively and you have been warned).

[mars6423]

hi, i just arrived here in singapore and both the planes i was on (virgin atlantic 747 and singapore airlines a380) preboarded families that needed assistance and anyone who needed extra help. And since you said that you were at the back of the plane at worst you would have been one of the first people on the plane as they board from back to front, so it would have been a hassle with the other people but at least that way you wouldnt be trying to get past passengers throughout the plane.

[Jetliner]

To gromit and PHX - you two are idiots on this. Both of you are taking the stance of the business traveler - "Oh forbid they get to go in front because they have kids."

Think about this for a moment. If I have a young child (under 2) in my arms, what am I carrying in the other arm? A CARSEAT on top of a diaper bag, on top of my own carry on. I'm going to try my best to get down the aisle of that plane in a slim line, but if my child gets squirmy, then there's a chance that you are going to whacked in the head with that car seat. And trust me, even with the best parents in the world, kids that young are like kitty cats - they do whatever the hell they want. Sure the parents can deal with them, as good parents will do, but kids will surprise you too.

Also, think about this. Once I get on the plane, I have to get situated. Strap down a car seat. Stash the diaper bag. Stash my bag. Damn it, he/she just cut the contents of a 747 lavatory loose in their diaper. Got to change it. etc, etc, etc. Trust me, it's not easy traveling with the kids, especially when they are that young. And as for the screaming - you just can't convince them that if they would just shut up and suck on the bottle, their ears would stop hurting. Even my 4 year old can't understand to shut up and sip your apple juice.

Also, normally it's both parents with the child, which means 2 against 1. In this case both of them have their hands full with a 1 year old. I would say the only thing that would have kept me from shooting myself on the spot would have been the security checkpoint. That and the fact that air marshals don't give up their guns easily.

And let me point this out to you. Does it really and truly matter if I board first or in the middle? (The end would be a problem) If I go on ahead of time, or in the middle, the plane is still going to leave when it leaves.

The bottom line is there is a lot more involved to traveling with kids than you realize.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

The lack of human decency and kindness on these boards never ceases to amaze me...

No courtesy, no kindness, no compassion.. just me, me, me.. Some people have "earned" pre-boarding, but god forbid that some basic courtesy is shown to a mother with a baby.



IMHO, ignorant neanderthals should not be able to fly, they're not civilized enough

Originally Posted by Jetliner

To gromit and PHX - you two are idiots on this. Both of you are taking the stance of the business traveler - "Oh forbid they get to go in front because they have kids."

Think about this for a moment. If I have a young child (under 2) in my arms, what am I carrying in the other arm? A CARSEAT on top of a diaper bag, on top of my own carry on. I'm going to try my best to get down the aisle of that plane in a slim line, but if my child gets squirmy, then there's a chance that you are going to whacked in the head with that car seat. And trust me, even with the best parents in the world, kids that young are like kitty cats - they do whatever the hell they want. Sure the parents can deal with them, as good parents will do, but kids will surprise you too.

Also, think about this. Once I get on the plane, I have to get situated. Strap down a car seat. Stash the diaper bag. Stash my bag. Damn it, he/she just cut the contents of a 747 lavatory loose in their diaper. Got to change it. etc, etc, etc. Trust me, it's not easy traveling with the kids, especially when they are that young. And as for the screaming - you just can't convince them that if they would just shut up and suck on the bottle, their ears would stop hurting. Even my 4 year old can't understand to shut up and sip your apple juice.

Also, normally it's both parents with the child, which means 2 against 1. In this case both of them have their hands full with a 1 year old. I would say the only thing that would have kept me from shooting myself on the spot would have been the security checkpoint. That and the fact that air marshals don't give up their guns easily.

And let me point this out to you. Does it really and truly matter if I board first or in the middle? (The end would be a problem) If I go on ahead of time, or in the middle, the plane is still going to leave when it leaves.

The bottom line is there is a lot more involved to traveling with kids than you realize.

I think you're missing the point. The OP's gripe was that s/he wasn't allowed to pre-board simply because s/he had kids in tow. I really don't care where they sit once they're on the plane. If they're sitting in first class then they get to board with first class before coach. I've traveled with some very delightful kids in first class. If they're sitting in coach and the parent(s) don't have status then they'll board when their row or group is called. Hell I'll even give them a hand getting settled in if need be. But early boarding is for those who have disabilities and those who've earned status.

Problem with pre-boarding was that too many people abused it. Continental used to announce pre-boarding for those traveling with children under 5 years old. Guess how many people with "tweens" and teens got in line to pre-board as well. They selectively heard "traveling with children" and suddenly became deaf when the "under 5 years old" part was announced. All the while here I am a platinum elite who has to wait until these throngs of parents with kids of all ages clog up the jetway.

Oh and parents...take heed. If your traveling with older and younger children, why not insist that your older children actually help out? I've seen moms with a infant, a 3-4 year old and a 12ish child (probably from the first marriage) where the older child is so engrossed in her iPod and GameBoy she's too busy to give a flying frak about mom who's schlepping the stroller, diaper bag, carryon and sleepy pre-schooler. Tell your kids to turn off the electronic zombie devices and help out or threaten to ground them for the entire vacation! And grounding means NO iPod and NO GameBoy!

[Jetliner]

Actually, no, that was my point - that they should be allowed to pre-board.

When I worked the gates, I had people with the tweens who tried to pre-board. They got turned away too, until their row was called. Hell, I had adults who would come up when I called rows 25 and higher, and they were in row 10 or 12. I would tell them we were boarding rows 25 and higher. The response - Yeah, and I'm in 10. So I would tell them that 10 is not a higher number than 25.

Back to the original point, parents with the young kids really should be first on board (well, after wheelchairs and such). Look at my first point in the past post. When I'm coming down the aisle with all the stuff that I have no choice but to bring, including the car seat, do you want to be sitting there as I walk by you with that car seat at your head level?

And while we are on that subject, how many times have you stood in the aisle waiting for someone to stash their cary-on in the overhead? If I'm going to have to hold up the works getting situated with the kid, isn't it better that I do that without other people in the aisle trying to get by?

Here's another point to consider. The OP only mentioned the twin 1 year olds. This leads me to believe they have no other kids. OK. Keep in mind that most families only travel once or twice per year. (I'm talking kids included here) So, there is a very real chance these people had never flown with the kids before. There's a lot of surprises.

[Gromit801]

Originally Posted by Jetliner

To gromit and PHX - you two are idiots on this.

Insulting remarks reported.

Both of you are taking the stance of the business traveler - "Oh forbid they get to go in front because they have kids."

I don't care where they go. If the kid can't walk on their own, best to stay home and plan the trip when the child is older.

Think about this for a moment. If I have a young child (under 2) in my arms, what am I carrying in the other arm? A CARSEAT on top of a diaper bag, on top of my own carry on. I'm going to try my best to get down the aisle of that plane in a slim line, but if my child gets squirmy, then there's a chance that you are going to whacked in the head with that car seat. And trust me, even with the best parents in the world, kids that young are like kitty cats - they do whatever the hell they want. Sure the parents can deal with them, as good parents will do, but kids will surprise you too.

Also, think about this. Once I get on the plane, I have to get situated. Strap down a car seat. Stash the diaper bag. Stash my bag. Damn it, he/she just cut the contents of a 747 lavatory loose in their diaper. Got to change it. etc, etc, etc. Trust me, it's not easy traveling with the kids, especially when they are that young. And as for the screaming - you just can't convince them that if they would just shut up and suck on the bottle, their ears would stop hurting. Even my 4 year old can't understand to shut up and sip your apple juice.

Also, normally it's both parents with the child, which means 2 against 1. In this case both of them have their hands full with a 1 year old. I would say the only thing that would have kept me from shooting myself on the spot would have been the security checkpoint. That and the fact that air marshals don't give up their guns easily.

And let me point this out to you. Does it really and truly matter if I board first or in the middle? (The end would be a problem) If I go on ahead of time, or in the middle, the plane is still going to leave when it leaves.

The bottom line is there is a lot more involved to traveling with kids than you realize.

I know exactly how much is involved in traveling with kids. That's why they invented Minivans. Parents who take babies and toddlers on flights remind me of the idiots parents that brought their three year old to the latest Harry Potter movie with them. The kid was terrified from the first two minutes, and scream and cried until mommy took her precious out of the theater. We could hear that kid outside the doors and down the hall. There is a right time to do things with kids.

[abutterfinger25]

Cboado:

While trying to stay away from the bickering that is clogging up your thread, let me offer you some advice that has worked with me when my son was younger.

If the carrier does not allow you to pre-board the aircraft, and many US carriers no longer offer this service for the exact reason that Phxflyer (I think) stated in one of his responses, just calmly mention to them that you need a little extra trime to buckle in the car seat (I am assuming that you were traveling with one) and don't want to jam up the aisle and slow down the boarding process. Everytime, from Delta to Southwest, I was allowed to board before general boarding (but after the first class, premier flyers and passenger's with disabilities).

If the carrier still refuses to allow you to board before general boarding, just accept it and after the trip, write a short calm complaint letter to the carrier.

[rudybjr]

If you were seated all the way in the back you would have been among the first ones to board. That's just like pre-boarding.

[Jetliner]

Originally Posted by Gromit801

That's why they invented Minivans. Parents who take babies and toddlers on flights remind me of the idiots parents that brought their three year old to the latest Harry Potter movie with them.

You can't realistically expect someone to have to drive cross country just because they have kids. That's even worse. This kids is now going to be stuck in a carseat for hours upon hours for may a couple days.

Is it really that big of a deal to let someone with a small kid board first? Is there any real harm done? No. The plane will leave when it leaves. It's not going to leave sooner just because you got to your seat 2 minutes sooner.

I still say it's a safety issue that I have to walk down the aisle and take the chance of hitting someone in the head with a carseat.

[jimworcs]

It is statistically very unsafe to drive a child across country compared to flying. The truth is Gromit is just being controversial and obnoxious for the sake of it. Even he can't think that grandchildren should never see grandparents, or kids shouldn't attend weddings, funerals, christenings or other family events. There are millions of reasons why kids need to travel, some even have to do it get medical treatment. A tiny bit of courtesy and consideration takes nothing, but Gromit and PHX can't offer that, because in their heads it diminishes their status that they "earned" by flying frequently. Pathetic.

[Gromit801]

Jim, if you can't make your point without being insulting, then pathetic is what you see in the mirror.

I will continue to maintain that children under five should fly unless they're on their way to a medical procedure. The grandparents can come to them, weddings are better off with out childish disturbances, etc.

I'll be honest. I don't like kids or breeders who insist I treat them with deference just because they popped out kids.

[jimworcs]

Well done Gromit, you have changed your position already. I like a man who can admit he is wrong. So a child can travel when he needs medical treatment. Ok, lets see what else then. Can the child travel if the father is serving in the military in Iraq and they are able to see him for a few days before his deployment but need to travel to his base station? Just wondering what the rules are in your travel nazi world...

By the way.. where did I insult you?