[PHXFlyer]

Hi fellow contributors, sympathizers and otherwise, guests and lurkers on this forum. We have all read complaints where the traveler claims "I was never told about..." schedule changes, how to check in, when to check in, costs for baggage and limits, etc. I seem to remember that some of the "complaints" were about United. I haven't flown United in a couple of years but since Continental changed alliances and they are now a partner I found a good fare and will be flying United exactly one week from today. When I checked my e-mail this morning I received this from United:

From: Unitedpreflight@unitedpreflight.p0.com
Prepare for your upcoming United flight on Wed, Nov 25

PHX Flyer
Confirmation number: XXXXXX
Mileage Plus® number: 99999999999

Dear PHX Flyer,

Thank you for choosing United for your upcoming travel plans. You will find many helpful links in this email, which can assist you in managing your reservation and preparing for your trip.

You can also visit our Traveler guide page, for additional information including:
• Airport terminal locations
• Recommended check-in times
• Baggage policies
• ID and documentation information
• In-flight services

Please visit united.com if you need any further assistance.

This flight may help you earn up to 50% on a future United flight. Learn More

Your Itinerary

(Itinerary details omitted)

If you would like to view your itinerary or make any changes, you can go to the View or Change Itinerary page. From there you will be able to:

• View current and past itineraries
• Request upgrades •
Select seats • Request an E-ticket refund • Change or cancel flights •
Print itinerary

This ticket was booked on United.com. So to all those who say, "I was never notified..." check your e-mail, including your spam folder! Sometimes these notices do wind up there especially if you have particularly restrictive spam settings. I suggest when you book a ticket with United that you add Unitedpreflight@unitedpreflight.p0.com to your "allowed" or "contact" lists.

[wkharris2001]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

Hi fellow contributors, sympathizers and otherwise, guests and lurkers on this forum. We have all read complaints where the traveler claims "I was never told about..." schedule changes, how to check in, when to check in, costs for baggage and limits, etc. I seem to remember that some of the "complaints" were about United. I haven't flown United in a couple of years but since Continental changed alliances and they are now a partner I found a good fare and will be flying United exactly one week from today. When I checked my e-mail this morning I received this from United:

This ticket was booked on United.com. So to all those who say, "I was never notified..." check your e-mail, including your spam folder! Sometimes these notices do wind up there especially if you have particularly restrictive spam settings. I suggest when you book a ticket with United that you add Unitedpreflight@unitedpreflight.p0.com to your "allowed" or "contact" lists.

if you book through a travel agency it's always a good idea to call and confirm your reservation 24 hours prior to departure. that 130 flight to CVG may have changed to a 12:00 flight to cvg and if you show up at 1145 to check in, you have missed your flight. and now have to take a connecting flight to get there, and pay a fee.

even if you book through a travel agency, they tell you "additional baggage fees may apply at airport check in, for more details please contact your operating carrier" or something similar. u wouldn't believe how many people come and claim "i was never told about the $20 baggage fee" I look right at their itinerary that they have handed me and point it out to them.

claiming ignorance is never an excuse to try and get out of a legitimate fee.

[jimworcs]

That depends what you call "legitimate"...

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

That depends what you call "legitimate"...

I guess "it depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is."

To many customers most fees are not "legitimate."

[jimworcs]

Well wk has a very Delta interpretation of legitimate. In another thread, he stated that a customer who wanted to be seated next to her 4 year old daughter and was mis-informed that this would not be possible, did not have a legitimate complaint!!

Delta legitimate is different from the rest of the English language. Maybe we should start a Delta English vs Standard English

Customer Service = Shout at the customer and tell lies
We will hold the flight = We will say anything to get you away from the desk
Weather related = Crew called in sick
09:45 Departure = 15:20 Departure
Non-stop Flight = Wait until 3 weeks before departure and make it indirect

It is just not an easy language to understand...

[wkharris2001]

Jim I can get you a copy of the dictionary if you want?

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

Jimworcs wrote...

Delta legitimate is different from the rest of the English language.

Actually, your "translations" apply, in varying degrees, to ALL the "Legacy" carriers, with Continental and Alaska being at the low end.

Jim, you left out the classic phrasing of replies to complaint letters...

Thank you for this opportunity to be of assistance. Unfortunately...

We look forward to serving you on one of our flights.

TRANSLATION...

F**K OFF!

[jimworcs]

That will be great WK, most helpful.

Does it include what

"Your feedback is important to us"

really means?

[wkharris2001]

of course it does jim, i wouldn't have offered if it didn't

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Well wk has a very Delta interpretation of legitimate. In another thread, he stated that a customer who wanted to be seated next to her 4 year old daughter and was mis-informed that this would not be possible, did not have a legitimate complaint!!

Delta legitimate is different from the rest of the English language. Maybe we should start a Delta English vs Standard English

Customer Service = Shout at the customer and tell lies
We will hold the flight = We will say anything to get you away from the desk
Weather related = Crew called in sick
09:45 Departure = 15:20 Departure
Non-stop Flight = Wait until 3 weeks before departure and make it indirect

It is just not an easy language to understand...

That one isn't so easy to get away with since the feds monitor the reasons for delays. Of course if an incoming crew will be delayed because of weather the delay reason is still weather.

As for your other statement of what compromises a legitimate complaint, it varies by situation. Since the person with the seating issue involving their 4 year old daughter was actually seated next to her to begin with s/he did not really have a legitimate complaint about the seating arrangements. Their only complaint was how they were handled when they presented Delta with their not-so-legitimate complaint. Had the agents they encountered taken just a moment to research their inquiry we would not have heard about it! Had they indeed not been seated together and had this situation not been sorted out before the plane departed (which we all agreed a 4 year old would never be separated from an adult) then they would have a legitimate complaint.

[jimworcs]

I think we disagree on that one PHX. It cannot be as unthinkable as you seem to think for a parent and 4 year old child to be separated as the Fuhrmanns were repeated told by Delta agents that they couldn't guarantee to seat them next to each other.

For the Fuhrmann's there was most certainly a legitimate complaint. Delta would not guarantee to seat the mother next to her 4 year old child. That is legitimate... in anyone's book except when you are using the DeltaDictionary.

[gizmolove]

I don't know if this question is the joke or the punch line. One must make the assumption first, that United wants to "improve". In my recent experience with United it is more than evident that United doesn't give a hang about improving their customer service or any thing else about their airline. United Airlines has turned "Customer Service" into a four letter word, (in my book). Most employees of this company don't even know what that phrase really means.

On my first flight out of Spokane WA. I asked for a pillow for my back. I have back problems and it's hard for my to sit for hours at a time, and I have arthritis in both hips. I was told that I was in coach and that I didn't warrent a pillow. Gee, just my luck! (Should have paid that extra 500.00 I guess.) The 2 and a half hour flight was painful but without incident, to Denver. The 5 hour flight to Cancun was painful, but without incident. The flight back was however: "FLY THE FRIENDLY SKY'S OF UNITED" or, "The night from Hell!"

Getting out of Mexico was typical and quite the mess, but I don't blame that on United, just on Mexico. The 5 hour flight to Denver was very uncomfortable in United seats. In fact, I said to the cabin steward upon arrival in Denver, "You should give that guy that designs your seats a bonus and then maybe he can find a way to make your seats even more uncomfortable than they are now, but I doubt it". She laughed, and thought that this was very funny. In the airport I downed 3 asprin. During the 4 hour layover in Denver I finally got some feeling back into my legs and got something to eat and drink. Speaking of eating, anyone been to United's site? They say on flights over 3 hours long you get food, they lie! (You get cheese and crackers if you want to pay $5).

Finally the 2 and a half hour flight back to Spokane when we were haulted in mid-boarding by a delay due to problems with the equipment. Finally the rest of us were allowed to board and we were off at 9:15PM. We were to arrive in Spokane at 10:37PM.

To shorten this I'll go through it quickly. At 10:30 it was anounced that we couldn't land and were re-roughted to Portland OR. (It was later confirmed altitude equipment failure). We arrived in Portland OR at about 11:30. "Another plane will arrive in 45 min. and it's our hope that we can board you on that plane and take you back to Spokane". Next: "We need this gate, you'll all have to get off the plane". Next: (an hour later) "This crew can not take you into Spokane because they have already met their air hours time limit." (Pitty the FAA doesn't have the same consideration for airline passangers). Next: "We are arrangeing to bus you to Spokane, there are no more flights to Spokane for 6 days (Dec. 26th)"

There was a young couple on the fight with a new baby, they were out of food for the baby. They were told that the airport was closed (it closes at midnight) and that they should have brought more food. Also, if they chose not to get on the bus they would have to go to Spokane on their own. (Also, it was their fault that they didn't pack more formula). *Take notes young parents!

We collected our baggage at baggage claim and I asked for a wheelchair transport for the 4 block hike to the "bus", my request was ignored. Lugged bags to bus and got on. Cried with my back for first hour. Stopped at rest stop on hour out and put creme on my mosquito bites and took 3 more asprin. Slept sitting up. Got to Spokane around 8:30am. (A 10 and a half hour delay).

We were given no rebates, no coupons, no discounts, no "milage" and no vouchers. I don't want any anyway, as I will never travel United again. As I told them, "Next time I come back from Mexico, if I have to ride a burro, I won't spend one more penny with United, EVER, EVER, AGAIN !!!!!

[The_Judge]

I've changed sides and also trying to be nicer for my New Year's resolution but this one would be so easy to comment on.

Sorry for all your inconvenience. Vote with your feet and use another carrier.

[gizmolove]

There are about:

5 Airlines
5 Phone Companys
5 Health Insurance Companys
5 Major Gas Cards
5 Major Banks

Do you really think that any airlines really cares about our little complaints. Eventually, with your walking shoes on, you will run out of road. (And they know it, that's why they don't care).

[jimworcs]

Spot on gizmoglove.. time to break them up and re-regulate them, just as Ma Bell was broken up. They are local monopolies and the market will not work until this is addressed

[gizmolove]

Well, if you think John Q's voice is heard in Congress more than the lobbiests for the multi-corporate, multi-national interests; knock yourself out.

My only clout is the voice I use by being a consumer. It's not much, but it's all I have. I no longer shop at Wal-Mart; I buy locally grown organic foods; I support local artists rather than multi-national chains; and since the State of WA outlawed smokeing in restaurants, I eat at home.

Maybe my little voice doesn't count. But, since I stopped going out for food and coctails twice at week at between 50 and 100 dollars a pop, at least 100 restaurants in the Spokane area have closed.

It's not our government nor the multi-national interests that will ever change. We have to change. We have to go back to basics. That requires that every American get educated in how their money is spent when they write that check or use that plastic. When you give someone your money, you give them your support. It's time for American's to take a side and make a stand.

What do you support? Who gets your money? And, who are they and what do they stand for??? Chances are that if you're spending your money at a maga source, they are screwing their suppliers, their employees and eventually you.

Chances are that most Americans vote with their wallets, and most of them only have consumer education that consists of 30 sec. sound bites!

[The_Judge]

Are you running for office??

[PHXFlyer]

gizmolove it seems to me your biggest problems are your health issues and not the airlines. If you need a pillow in order to be comfortable than why not bring one yourself? If an airline seat is so uncomfortable then why not charter a private jet? Or perhaps you should take a train? If you're too frail to travel then stay home. It's all about choices.

[jimworcs]

But, since I stopped going out for food and coctails twice at week at between 50 and 100 dollars a pop, at least 100 restaurants in the Spokane area have closed.

Not sure there is a direct correlation!! However, I agree that the only effective remedy is to stop buying services and goods from supplies who provide poor service.

Phx,
The suggestion that people with impairments or disabilities should be prevented from flying if they need simple accommodations is so outdated and ridiculous it is hard to believe you are putting it forward as a serious point for debate. One day you may become the victim of your own hard nosed attitude.. you never know when you too may become disabled. It will be interesting to see if there is a change in attitude then!

[gizmolove]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

Are you running for office??

No Judge, I'm not qualified. In order to run for any office in this country and actually susceed you have to be able to be at the mercy of maga conglomerates that own your soul. You have to be willing to serve them and not the people that were tricked into voteing for you.

Unfortunately my personal ethics will not allow me to enter such an arena.

[gizmolove]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

gizmolove it seems to me your biggest problems are your health issues and not the airlines. If you need a pillow in order to be comfortable than why not bring one yourself? If an airline seat is so uncomfortable then why not charter a private jet? Or perhaps you should take a train? If you're too frail to travel then stay home. It's all about choices.

PHXFlyer,
Well, I don't know how old you are; but, at any age you try traveling 5 hours to Denver after a four hour airport enterance/delay out of in Mexico. Then, you have 3 check points in Denver CO. and a 4 hour layover. Now, try a 2 and a 1/2 hour trip home that turns into an 11 hour trip with the last 8 hours on a bus with no heat, seats worse than the airplane you just got off of, with no place to lay your head, and your carry-on on your lap.

Pardon the "you know what" out of me if I seam to "old" and decrepid to travel.

A fact that I must admit, I was concerned about before I left. Now that I am finally home after a night of pure hell on earth, I find that if I can endure United Air Lines, I can pretty much stand, ANYTHING!

Physically or mentally.

[gizmolove]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Not sure there is a direct correlation!! However, I agree that the only effective remedy is to stop buying services and goods from supplies who provide poor service.

Phx,
The suggestion that people with impairments or disabilities should be prevented from flying if they need simple accommodations is so outdated and ridiculous it is hard to believe you are putting it forward as a serious point for debate. One day you may become the victim of your own hard nosed attitude.. you never know when you too may become disabled. It will be interesting to see if there is a change in attitude then!

Jim,

Well Jim, here's the corrilation. There are only about 18% of the population of Spokane WA. that smoke. That's pretty much the national average. This amounts to only about 40,000 people. Although we are a small minority we evidently have some financial clout when we face choices at how we are going to spend our money. It obviously only took personal financial choices of sum 40,000 smokers to put over 100 restaurants out of business.

There was no greater pleasure to go out to dinner and drinks once a week with my husband. We'd spend literaly hours over coctails and food, talking the night away. Now, I find that steak and lobster, a bottle of wine, several rum and cokes for him and my pack of cigerettes once a week, is much cheaper than the $100 or more a week that we used to spend when we went out to eat. Several smokers must have come to the same conclusion as we did. (If consumer choices works with restaurants, it will work with airlines too).

As to PHX,

My last cruise in Oct. I traveled on Alaska Air. Going to SeaTac, then schedualed to San Fran and LAX. On the flight out at SeaTac they gave me one hour for my connection. I thought it was plenty of time until I got there and realized that I had to lug my carryon across five turminals, two elevaters, 2 esculators and a train. I got to the gate in time to wave goodbye to my flight which was just leaving the gate. I went to an Alaska counter and said, "I just missed my flight, and I don't care what you do about it, but I have a cruise out of L.A. that I will be boarding at 1 pm. You two work it out and let me know, I'll wait over here". After consultation they said that an hour between flights was "barely legal" and they booked me on another Alaska flight without the San Fran connection that would arrive at LAX earlier than my origional booked flight. It left in an hour and twenty minutes and I trecked back from whince I just came, and I made it 10 min. early (before boarding).

Checking in at Alaska after the cruise in L.A. I requested wheelchair transport in Seattle. Got wheelchair service in Eugene and Seattle, no problem. Staff friendly, good service, (very good Bloody Mary's), oh, and BTW: They must have hired someone other than the idiot at United, to design their seats!

[gizmolove]

PS: United can stuff (er, shove) their pillows!

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by gizmolove

Pardon the "you know what" out of me if I seam to "old" and decrepid to travel.

Don't put words in my mouth or twist what I said. My exact word was "frail." One can be "Frail" at any age and I never used the word "decrepid" [sic] to describe your physical challenges either. How about a little English lesson here since you seem to want to play the semantics game.

Main Entry: frail
Pronunciation: \ˈfrāl\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French fraile, from Latin fragilis fragile, from frangere
Date: 14th century
1 : easily led into evil <frail humanity>
2 : easily broken or destroyed : fragile
3 a : physically weak b : slight, unsubstantial

Main Entry: de·crep·it
Pronunciation: \di-ˈkre-pət\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin decrepitus
Date: 15th century
1 : wasted and weakened by or as if by the infirmities of old age
2 a : impaired by use or wear : worn-out b : fallen into ruin or disrepair
3 : dilapidated, run-down

Quite a difference in connotation.


My point is economy seats are pretty much the same across all US airlines. In order to fit in more seats and reduce weight the newer seats have less cushioning and by design do not recline to the same degree as the older seats did.


Your words: (Quoting directly here, not twisting what you said as you did to me!)

Originally Posted by gizmolove

The 2 and a half hour flight was painful but without incident, to Denver. The 5 hour flight to Cancun was painful, but without incident.

If you describe even a five hour flight as "painful" then you should really consider either paying for first class, traveling by some other means of transportation, or not traveling at all.



Just to add I checked the flight durations of both the Spokane to Denver and Denver to Cancun flights. Over the past month the former averaged about 1 hour and 45 minutes and not the 2 1/2 hours you claim. The latter averages between 2 hours 30 and 2 hours 45 minutes. Only twice in the past month has the DEN to CUN flight even neared the 3 hour mark. 5 hours? Really? A bit of an exaggeration wouldn't you say? What other details in your post are conveniently exaggerated as well?

[gizmolove]

PHXFlyer;

Since you are so fond of English lessons, here's a couple of words for you:

CHERRY-PICK:  
Pronunciation [cher-ee-pik]
–verb (used with object)
1. to select with great care: Ex: You can cherry-pick your own stereo components.
–verb (used without object)
2. (in retail use) to buy only the sale items and ignore the other merchandise.

OBTUSE:
Pronunciation [uhb-toos, -tyoos]
adjective
1. not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.
2. not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.
3. (of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity.
4. indistinctly felt or perceived, as pain or sound.

Related forms:
ob⋅tuse⋅ly, adverb
ob⋅tuse⋅ness, noun

Synonyms:
Unfeeling, tactless, insensitive; blind, imperceptive, unobservant; gauche, boorish; slow, dim.


RED HERRING:
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color
2 [Org: from the practice of drawing a red herring across a trail to confuse hunting dogs]
3 something that distracts attention from the real issue


I find it interesting that after all my posts you can center your comments on "frail" and, what was it? Oh yes:

"gizmolove it seems to me your biggest problems are your health issues and not the airlines. If you need a pillow in order to be comfortable than why not bring one yourself? If an airline seat is so uncomfortable then why not charter a private jet? Or perhaps you should take a train? If you're too frail to travel then stay home. It's all about choices."

"Frail" and "Pillow". I find it interesting that you think that my only problems were that my health was to "frail" and that if I needed a "pillow" to travel on an airplane that I should "... perhaps you should take a train? If you're too frail to travel then stay home".

What I find interesting about your reaction is the 3 words above. You have "Cherry-picked" my remarks to focus upon my physical problems while all the while ignoring, and bringing attention away from, any responsibility for any actions of the air carrier. That's called a "Red-Herring". I.E. Draging the subject in a lesser direction to take away the focus of, or to negate the real issues of a conversation. Now, I might call that being "Obtuse". However, being that deliberately obtuse is either a lack of intelligence, or a lack of feelings for others. Having a true lack of feelings for others is rare. So, I must conclude that there are more deeper motives for your being obtuse. I.E. either you are a sociopath or you are employed by the airlines. Because, it definately is not your lack of intelligence, only a lack of personal ethics and personal morals.

As to the timeing. I was ready for the van to the airport at the Cancun hotel at 10 am on the 19th. We were to depart Denver at 9:05 pm on the 19th with the ETA in Spokane of 10:37pm. Being on daylight savings time and PST so, we lost an hour in flight. This means that exact flight time was actually about 2 1/2 hours (not an hour and a half). But, what ever standard you want to use for time, Eastern, Central, Pacific or Cancun VS Spokane WA., the actual time I got home was 8:30 am Dec. 20th. Now, in my book, (and in most sane peoples books), that's just a tad under 24 hours.

Now, since you are so infamous for consulting airline scheduals, you could note the distance between Spokane and Cancun and you can estimate my MPH.
Also, a 24 hour trip would usually take me all the way to Australia, let alone Mexico. Also, if you check with the FAA you can see just where in my journey, if I were a flight attendent, would I have been afforded food and lodgeing by the airlines ??? (A distinction not afforded to airline customers. Evidently, if you're an airline now-a-days you can treat your customers any way you want!).

Personally, I find an airline that dumps it's customers in a strange airport just before closeing, then has total disreguard for it's customers needs and treats them rudely, like cattle and with distain, then tells them that they can either "get on the bus" for an over night bus trip home, or "you can get home on your own", does not deserve the right to stay in business.

And, if you think that I am the exception I am not. In web research I find that there are many examples of this. So many so that United should be called "United Air/Bus Lines". They in fact, make a habit of it. I was fortunate that it was at the end of my trip. United has done this to others at the beginning of their trips and they have missed their connection which extended their air travel for hours, (or bus travel time, or personal travel time at their own expense) for hours and others for days, and in some cases others have lost their travel all together!!!

If you think that these actions by United are reasonable, then THIS SHOULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

Because, "What goes around, comes around"!!!

Yes, "it is all about choices". As I said, we have the right to vote with our wallets. United has lost my business. I travel 3 to 4 times a year. Thats just me mind you, but if United is doing this to me, what are they doing to others? And, just like Spokane's 40,000 smokers, which have changed the restaurant industry in Spokane, we do have a voice, collectively ........(and, financially).

My voice says, UNITED SUCKS !!!!!!
(And, I will travel by foot from now on, if that will keep one red cent out of United's coffers).