[jimworcs]

Gizmo,
Whilst I am with you on the pisspoor standards of United and the US airline industry these days, and I am also with you on calling Phx on his obtuse, cherry picking red herrings.... this smoking thing you keep bringing up is a load of old tosh.

In the UK, loads of local pubs have closed over the last five years, and these closures appear to co-incide with the introduction of the smoking ban. Immediately, smokers, who seem to feel their rights are more important than the risk to the health of others, began to highlight this and argue that the smoking ban was destroying people's livelihoods.. the end of the world is nigh. Then someone decided to do some actual research... and lo and behold, we find that pubs which are directly run and owned by either a company or individual in fact were thriving. Those pubs which were "tied houses" linked to pub companies which had a monopoly on providing the beer were failing. This was due to the excessive prices charged by the beer suppliers who controlled the supply to the "tied houses". It had nothing to do with the smoking ban.

I bet you that in Spokane, 100 restaurants have closed because the economy has tanked... and that the link with smoking is tenuous..but if you have any evidence for your assertion, feel free to PM me..! Smoking is dangerous and something you should do in private.

[PHXFlyer]

I find it interesting that I called gizmolove out on his obvious exaggerations and he replies with more of the same.

[gizmolove]

What are you covering up? You can nit pick all you want about some phantom time schedual, doesn't discount a 11 hour delay to get home, over half of which was on a bus due to airline equipment failure. Doesn't discount United lack of concern for passanger comfort or safety. Does not negate United rudeness and complete incompetance. Doesn't hide the fact that they did not offer any compesation at all or any help with special need created by their incompetance. Doesn't discount the fact that two bus loads of people with home with no food, no water and no rest, sitting on a fridged cold bus where no one could sleep except by sitting up. Doesn't excuse the fact that a young couple with a child went without formula and had to find their own way back home at their own expense because they had too much compassion for others to take a screaming baby on a 6 hour bus ride. Doesn't even hardly make up for the fact that United's attitude was, "Get on the bus or find your own way home".

All that said, you can say anything about me you want. I could give a mouses tail. You can fuss, fume and insult me all you want. Won't take the fault away from United.

So, just who are you really??? HUMM???

One of their low life attorneys?

Save your time. I'm not going to sue. I won't waste one more second of my time with United. And, it is my furvent prayer that all the others they have dumped, put on busses, and in every other way screwed; join with me to make a small percentage that vows never,,,,,Never,,,,,NEVER EVER......AGAIN@@@@@

As for me, I'll be flying Alaska. The staff is friendly and helpful. The drinks are fairly good. You can actually sit in their seats without your back giving out. (The only other time in my life I was prevented from my destination was on Alaska. They overnighted us in a hotel by the airport, gave us vouchers for a meal, and overnighted our checked in bags if we wished.) AND THEY DON'T BUSSSSSSS their customers.

Alaska, unlike United, is an actual air line.

Chow. (Moron)

[gizmolove]

I must appologize to you. It was not an 11 hour delay. It was in fact an 11 and a half hour delay.

Sorry!

[gizmolove]

Jim,

I can only tell you about the restaurants here. I have talked to owners and I have been in since the smokeing ban. Our regular haunt hoped to pick up business from non smokers comming in. The last time I was there, there were 9 people in the bar. At one point 5 of us were outside by the ashtray takeing a smoke break includeing one who joined us while we were there, who was our waitress.

I can only speak from personal experience. It has hurt business considerably. People that smoke like to drink and talk and socialize a lot. Health nuts (for lack of another phrase, sorry) generally don't spend hours in bars or pubs drinking and eating and smokeing. They have a drink or two and maybe a meal, then leave.

I don't have anything against your good health. But, this local place is a family pizza parlor. The restaurant has games and TV and bar service in the restaurant area. Smokeing was only allowed in the bar where non smokers do not have to be, and kids are not allowed in there. Before you think about conjoined air, their wasn't any. The air filtration system is completely seperate (between the bar and the restaurant).

Now, I am the last person on earth to want anyone to loose their rights. Why isn't the rest of society just as gracious about mine? I don't need to go into all the restaurants, just one or two that cater to smokers. You don't have to go there, you can have the other 300 or so to pick from, if you like.

Oh and BTW, the smokeing ban here was a few years before 2008. Long before the economy that we face now.

Just because you may not be inconvienced by a smokeing ban, there may be a ban at some point that will make you feel like you are not valued as a customer. When you feel that your rights are being stepped on. Like a restaurant that doesn't accept kids. Doesn't provide for people in wheelchairs or walkers. Maybe we can go back to the 50's and get restaurants that don't accept blacks.

Discrimination is discrimination --- no matter how you want to white wash it. And, bad service still has it's consequences, as well as not catering to your customers needs (in a reasonable way of course).

We all have a choice in how we spend our money. My new years resolution is that I will no longer spend my money where I am not welcome, where I receive bad service or a bad product; nor, where I am treated like cattle. MY CHOICE.

[jimworcs]

Well clearly we are going to disagree about smoking in restaurants. I do not actually object to a restaurant or bar being a designated a smoking bar. I would not have passed such a draconian law on smoking. However, all restaurants or bars which allow smoking should ban children and have prominant signs outside. Smoking on airlines and other places such as shopping malls and public facilities should banned altogether. Then, if patrons decide they wish to go there, that is fine. However, having smoking and non-smoking areas within a single establishment is not acceptable, especially for staff who may have to go between both areas.

Just because you may not be inconvienced by a smokeing ban, there may be a ban at some point that will make you feel like you are not valued as a customer. When you feel that your rights are being stepped on. Like a restaurant that doesn't accept kids. Doesn't provide for people in wheelchairs or walkers. Maybe we can go back to the 50's and get restaurants that don't accept blacks.

Your stance which implies smoking is a civil rights issue is highly offensive. The smoking ban is not "discrimination" or it would be unconstitutional. There are perfectly valid health and public protection reasons for it. Your habit has the potential to kill other people. (If you google Roy Castle and Lung Cancer, you can read about a British entertainer who died of lung cancer caused by second hand smoke). To suggest that infringing on your freedom to smoke is analogous to the deprivation of the civil rights of blacks is deeply offensive and bordering on the racist.

I support an approach of not spending your money with suppliers who do not meet your expectations. However, to suggest you are not welcome at restaurants who do not allow smoking is just stupid. The restauranteur would be breaking the law to allow you to smoke. Your anger should be directed at the legislature. To take out your anger on the restauranteur, who has no means of controlling the law, is petty and ridiculous.

However, a more mature approach might be to be a little less selfish and more understanding of the needs and rights of others. I don't wish to see your right to smoke taken away, but you should equally respect the wishes of others not to be subjected to the smoke generated by your habit. The mutual respect of each others rights will make a more tolerant and livable society.

[PHXFlyer]

Originally Posted by gizmolove

As for me, I'll be flying Alaska. The staff is friendly and helpful. The drinks are fairly good. You can actually sit in their seats without your back giving out. (The only other time in my life I was prevented from my destination was on Alaska. They overnighted us in a hotel by the airport, gave us vouchers for a meal, and overnighted our checked in bags if we wished.) AND THEY DON'T BUSSSSSSS their customers.

Alaska, unlike United, is an actual air line.

While I agree with you that Alaska is a better airline than United, your statement that they don't bus their customers is not correct. They have, on rare occasions, had to bus customers when diversions or mechanical failures have occurred.

[sysadm]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer

This ticket was booked on United.com. So to all those who say, "I was never notified..." check your e-mail, including your spam folder! Sometimes these notices do wind up there especially if you have particularly restrictive spam settings. I suggest when you book a ticket with United that you add Unitedpreflight@unitedpreflight.p0.com to your "allowed" or "contact" lists.

Please note the <Unitedpreflight@unitedpreflight.p0.com> email address is a fake address. No wonder their notifications get blocked, discarded, rejected, or refused by many email servers out there. If the notifications reach the end user's email client at all, they will likely end up in the SPAM folder. So much about the knowledge of their experts. Shame on you UNITED.

[gizmolove]

Originally Posted by sysadm

Please note the <Unitedpreflight@unitedpreflight.p0.com> email address is a fake address. No wonder their notifications get blocked, discarded, rejected, or refused by many email servers out there. If the notifications reach the end user's email client at all, they will likely end up in the SPAM folder. So much about the knowledge of their experts. Shame on you UNITED.

When United refused to fly me to my final (pre-paid) destination, they gave me a phone # to call for complaints or "customer service". This number was also fake. Nothing about United would suprise me. They have no customer service, and it's quite obvious that they don't care to provide any. It is a prevasive attitude that permiates the whole company, from the top on down. I've made 2 trips since my last Dec. trip, and plan at least 2 more this year. UNITED WILL NEVER GET ONE MORE THIN DIME FROM ME, no matter who else I have to travel with, or at what cost!

[rosweed]

I booked our tickets on Continental. I used our Chase Continental One Pass credit card so that we would not be charged for our two bags. The outbound flight was fine. When we checked in for the return flight, which was on United (even though we had booked through Continental), we had to pay $25 per bag. We complained to the agent, who brought in a supervisor who told us that United does not honor Continental's fee waiver. I understand that when companies merge that there are going to be problems. However, that is not my problem. I want my $50 back from United. I hope somebody from United reads these posts, because this is really lousy customer relations.