[kirb20]

Please find below a detailed description of the series of delays and errors we encountered on our recent Honeymoon trip from Toronto, Canada to Valencia, Spain.

Our original itinerary was as follows:
Depart: 01:20 PM
Toronto, ON (YYZ)
Delta Air Lines
Arrive: 03:00 PM
New York, NY United States (JFK)
Flight 3948 operated by


PINNACLE DBA DELTA CONNECTION
(on Canadair Regional Jet)

Requested Seats: 3B, 3A
Total Travel Time: 1 hr 40 mins

For your boarding pass, use reference code DUHY01 for online or airport checkin.
Fri, Sep 3, 2010 New York J F Kennedy International Airport, (JFK) to Valencia, (VLC)
Depart: 04:25 PM
New York, NY United States (JFK)
Delta Air Lines
Arrive: 06:35 AM
Valencia Spain, Spain (VLC)
Flight 198
Next day

(on Boeing 757-200)

Requested Seats: 19C, 19B
Total Travel Time: 8 hrs 10 mins



We arrived at the Toronto Airport at approximately 7:45 am on September 3rd, we checked in with security and went to wait for the plane to take us to our Honeymoon destination. Our plane was an hour late to board with no explanation given.

Once on board the plane, we were told there was a weight issue, and that we were 300 pounds overweight so they had to reallocate some luggage. This took another 20 minutes to resolve. Once the weight issue was resolved we were taxied out to the runway where we proceeded to sit and wait.

After 20 minutes, the pilot came on and notified us that we were waiting for the okay to take off from the control tower, as there were “too many planes in New York” and that we would be updated within 45 minutes.

At this point, we were becoming concerned as we needed to make the connecting flight out of New York to Spain and had limited time to do so.

We continued to sit on the runway, each ‘update’ was another delay with another update coming. We were never given a clear explanation as to why this was happening or what was going on. Our flight attendant did complain about how we “should have never connected through New York” because “this always happens.” She told us we should book connections through Atlanta or Philadelphia, which we found very helpful. We called Delta from the plane and let them know the situation. The Phone agent told us “don’t worry, they know you are supposed to be on the flight to Spain, so they will hold it for you “, but she could do nothing to help us. After about 2 hours, we were told that we had to go back to the airport, as we were not allowed to sit on the airplane any longer due to federal laws.

We were then taxied back to the hanger and were told that if we have a connecting flight, to please speak to the desk agent. We went straight to the desk agent and let him know our situation. He looks for options and tells us “ I have no other flights to Valencia.” I ask what this means. He says “ I have no flights today and no flights tomorrow.” I ask what our options are and he says “I have no idea” and looked past us to try and help the next in line.

He then received a call to let him know that we are now cleared to take off. He tells us our best option is to go to New York and sort it out from there and rudely added “it’s only an hour flight if we’re delayed they’re for sure delayed.” We ask if he’s sure and he checks his system and tells us our flight from New York to Valencia has been delayed also, so we should still be able to make it in time, as it is now not slated to depart until 6:30 pm.

At this point, the desk agent informs all of the passengers who are waiting to reboard that we are unable to reboard because the entire flight crew, including the Captain and flight attendants, have left the plane and are nowhere to be found. He tells us this is “unbelievable,” and “not allowed” while he expresses shock and anger. They page the flight crew repeatedly but it takes them a good deal of time to return to the airplane, further delaying us.

We are finally able to reboard, where we wait again on the runway and eventually take off. We land in New York at 6:45 pm.

Once on the ground we are very anxious to get to the Delta desk and see what our status is but we taxi on the New York runway for almost an hour! We drove slowly in circles for 50 minutes before the plane finally stopped out on the runway where we were informed that a bus will take us to the gate. After all that waiting to take off and after landing, we are not even taken to the terminal. When we finally arrive at the gate we ran to the Delta desk. The time is now 7:45 pm.

We have missed our flight. It left on time. It was not delayed as the desk agent in Toronto had stated. The desk agent in New York also tells us there are no more flights today or tomorrow. She then rechecks her system and tells us we have two options. We can fly tonight to Paris, and then to Valencia, or we can fly tonight to London, and then to Valencia. She asks which we prefer. We let her know we have no preference, as long as we get there. She begins to book us in, and then realizes that both flights are sold out. Back to square one. She then finds another flight, leaving that night to Rome, with a connecting flight from Rome to Valencia the next day. This option will only get us to Valencia about 7 hours behind our original time, so we are quite happy with this.

She tells us that if we are going to make this flight, we will have to run, as it is leaving very shortly from another terminal. We say no problem! She prints out our tickets from New York to Rome, and from Rome to Valencia. At this point I ask “What about our luggage?” and she assures us she has transferred it to the new flight. I am skeptical, as I think, if we have to run, how will our luggage get to the plane in time? Regardless, off we run.

We arrive at the Alitalia terminal and check in and board the flight to Rome with no issues. We arrive in Rome the next morning and proceed to the Iberia desk, which is the airline that our tickets to Valencia are with.

We check in at the Iberia desk with the tickets that Delta had issued to us. We are told by the Iberia agents that the tickets are not valid, as they accept only e-tickets, not paper tickets. They tell us we must go speak to the Delta agent in Terminal 5, and they will have to change our paper tickets to e-tickets.

We hurry off to find Terminal 5 which ends up being very far removed from the rest of the airport. We take a shuttle and arrive at the terminal. We enter and the entire terminal is vacant. All counters are closed, there is no Delta staff, no one is there. We are now very concerned as we do not have a lot of time before we need to check in.

I search all the way to the back of the Terminal, and am able find a cleaning crew. They do not speak English, but I am able to convey that I am looking to speak to someone from Delta. They go into the employee area and find one Delta employee who was just leaving. He comes back to the desk to assist us.

We explain that Iberia has said we need to have our tickets changed to e-tickets. The agent checks the tickets and proceeds to tell us the tickets are invalid. We express confusion and ask “what do you mean?”. He tells us that while the tickets say Iberia, they are actually for a flight with an Iberia affiliate, Welling. He says that Welling does not accept Delta vouchers, and therefore our tickets are no good. He says that the Delta computer system shows the flight as an Iberia flight, but that if the agent in New York had “looked closely enough” she would have known that they actually were not.

We are in utter disbelief as we stand there, exhausted and holding hard tickets to this flight that we are being told we cannot board.

The agent now says the best he can do is get us on a flight to Madrid the next day, then an 8 hour layover in Madrid, getting into Valencia at 9 the next night. This will now mean we have lost 2 full days of our honeymoon.

We ask if there is any way at all they can get us on the (Welling) flight that afternoon that we have tickets for. He says no. When we ask for the number to call Delta to see if we can get anywhere with them he rudely tells us that he “speaks for Delta” and, “which do we want, for him to book the flight as he described it or do we want to call Delta?” We sense a breakdown in his limited helpfulness and begrudgingly ask that he complete the connection through Madrid and we will find the Delta number and call after we’re done with him. We beg one more time him to put us on the Welling flight, asking that Delta pay for the tickets to make up for all the mistakes we’ve been subjected to and help us get our Honeymoon underway. He says Delta has no way to pay for the tickets and the best he can do is give us a hotel for the night, with breakfast, lunch and dinner vouchers, which he says “will end up costing Delta more than it would have to get you on that flight”. He instructs us that there is a shuttle to and from the airport to the hotel. He then tells us we have to leave because the Terminal is closed, and locks it behind us.

We head back to the main terminal and phone Delta International at which time I speak with an agent over the phone. He looks up our file and tells us the tickets we have are valid. I explain that both Iberia and Delta in Rome have told us they are not. He says “Well then I don’t understand. You will have to go back and tell the Delta agent they are valid.” However, the Delta agent has now gone home and the terminal is locked. I explain this to him and he says there is nothing they can do.

We then proceed to try to pick up our luggage. Our luggage did not arrive. We check with the Alitalia desk to try to find out where it is, but no one knows.

We head to the shuttle to the hotel. When we arrive at the hotel, we are appalled. The hotel is old, dirty and absolutely the worst we have stayed in. There is no alarm clock in the room, the tv does not work, the bed is dirty and sinks in the middle.

We are too late for the lunch vouchers as lunch is now over, and we have to leave before breakfast starts, so we do not get any use out of either of these. The dinner buffet (which consisted of Salsbury steak and stale rolls) was so unappealing we ended up having to eat something else afterwards.

Our flight the next day is an early one and we get up and get ready to go. We are then informed that the shuttle does not run that early, so then we have to take a cab to the airport which costs us 34 euros.

We check in for our first flight and arrive in Madrid on time. We wait for 8 hours in the Madrid airport, before finally boarding a flight to Valencia. We arrive in Valencia late on Sunday night.

Our luggage does not arrive until Tuesday night, so we have no clothes, belongings or toiletries. As per law, however, this now falls on Alitalia and we are currently dealing with them on this issue, even though the bags were misplaced by Delta in New York.

We have now lost two full days of our vacation. We had pre-booked our accommodations in Valencia that has been paid for, so we had now paid for this time period for nothing. We’ve had minimal sleep over the 48 hour nightmare and are completely exhausted but the thing that was the hardest to accept was that no one at any time attempted to apologize or help us. There was a lot of shoulder shrugging and saying “nothing we can do.”

The entire sequence of events was a series of errors and miscommunications on Delta’s behalf. None of your branches seem to be communicating with the others, and no one is willing to offer any help or even the slightest bit of sympathy.

We are completely dissatisfied with our experience, and are looking for compensation for damages incurred over the course of this series of events. It has ruined one of the most important and highly anticipated vacations of our lives. A honeymoon is supposed to be peaceful and fun. This was anything but. Our tickets were contracted to get us from Toronto to Valencia by 6:45 am on September 4th. We would like a refund of the ticket price for this trip, as Delta fell far, far short of getting us where we were supposed to go within the timelines we were supposed to get there in.

We look forward to your reply, and appreciate you handling our complaint.

Much appreciated,

[kirb20]

not their fault, air traffic control issue, $100 voucher. Should I fight harder and how???

[jimworcs]

The problem here was not the original delay, it was the handling of the rescheduling that is the problem. I would consider filing a small claims court claim against Delta on this. In filing the claim, you need to emphasise that your complaint is about their handling of the delay and their incompetence and failure to mitigate your losses. Therefore it is not about the air traffic delay.

Incidently, it is almost NEVER the right decision to fly into the EU on a US based air carrier. Regulation 261/2004 would have applied to you if you had flown with Air France (Toronto/CDG/Valencia). This would have provided you with a refund, plus reimbursement for lost luggage, plus hotel and meals costs. By choosing Delta, one of the worst air carriers for customer service in the world, your honeymoon was doomed.

You may also be able to make claims about the failure to fly you from Rome to Valencia. This was entirely within the EU, so therefore 261/2004 could be applicable.

Delta staff lying to you to get you away from the desk is routine. There are hundreds of examples on this website and thousands on the web. Staff are either trained to lie to you (likely) or so badly trained, they don't care nor is there any sanction for lying to you.

Not very helpful, but perhaps others might get some warning that Delta in particular, and US based airlines in general are a total nightmare.

[kirb20]

Not sure if I am eligible for small claims court, as I am Canadian and this is an American Company. Do I have any other options? I have responded saying we are not satisfied with this resolution and asking to speak with a supervisor.

[kirb20]

here is Delta's response, and my response:

Hello Malcolm,

While I appreciate your response, this offer of compensation is completely unacceptable to us.

While you can certainly allocate the initial error in Toronto to an ATC control issue, you can certainly not allocate the error regarding the tickets from Rome to Valencia to anything other than a direct error by a Delta employee, and this error alone cost us a full day of our trip. Delta issued us tickets that were at no point valid tickets. You must take responsibility for this portion at least.

I understand that further compensation may be out of your control, but I would ask to be put in touch with someone in a supervisory position so we may discuss this further.

I appreciate your quick response and look forward to further discussions with either you, or your supervisor.

Much appreciated,

Jennifer

-----Original Message-----
From: Contact Delta [mailto:ContactUs.Delta@delta.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:06 PM
To: Jennifer Kirby
Subject: YYZ JFK FCO /RE: CC-Customer Care-Complaint-Flight Disruption-Delay (KMM3771279V4293L0KM)

Dear Ms. Kirby,

RE: Case Number 1478499

Thank you for writing about you and your husband's recent flight experience. On behalf of Delta Air Lines, I sincerely apologize for the delay of our flight due to Air Traffic Control (ATC) restrictions and the poor service you received from some of our airport employees.

I am truly sorry for the frustration you experienced when your plans were disrupted on September 3, 2010 due to the delay of our Flight 3948 for an Air Traffic Control (ATC) situation. However, please note that these disruptions are beyond our control. Also, during irregular operations, we do our utmost to reschedule affected passengers on Delta or partner airline flights on which space is available.

As our customer, you are in the best position to point out areas that need attention. Our goal is to provide consistent and accurate information to our passengers. We also expect our employees to be helpful and professional at all times. I am truly sorry in this instance you did not receive the service you expected and should have received from some of our team members. Feedback like yours will help us improve our airport process and overall customer experience. Please know I will be sharing your comments with our Airport Customer Service leadership teams for internal follow up.

Additionally, I apologize that your hotel accommodations in Rome, Italy were less than adequate. We work very closely with a vendor who monitors and retains a certain percentage of rooms at several hotels each night. When we receive a report like yours, we will ask our vendor to complete a thorough hotel inspection to ensure the property is rated as suitable for continued patronage. Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

I am also sorry for the inconvenience you were caused with your baggage.
Like you, we certainly wish that instances of mishandled bags never occurred.

We collect the applicable fares for transportation used. Since you did complete travel and your tickets have been used, I hope you will understand that no refund is due.

As a gesture of goodwill for the poor service you received from some of our agents, I have issued an Electronic Transportation Credit Voucher
(eTCV) in the amount of $100.00 for each passenger. Please note the voucher numbers and associated Terms and Conditions will be arriving in separate emails. I encourage you to add Delta Air Lines to your receiver list so the voucher documents are not misdirected to your spam folder. Please keep the voucher numbers and the Terms and Conditions since the numbers are required for redemption. It is also important to remind you that there is no Direct Ticketing fee for reservations confirmed online at delta.com.

I want to thank you, again, for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention. Your future business is important to us, and I hope you will continue to choose Delta for your air travel needs.

Sincerely,

Malcolm M. Pereira
Coordinator, Customer Care
Delta Air Lines/KLM R

[jimworcs]

Just to illustrate how contemptuous Delta are of their customers, read this:

http://www.airlinecomplaints.org/showthread.php?t=7693

This person's experience, whilst typical of Delta, resulted in arrival at the destination some 12 hours late. They were given a $100 voucher, exactly the same level of compensation you were offered. To offer the same compensation in this situation is insulting and derisory.

You certainly can sue a US carrier in a Canadian court. They provided a "service" to you under Canadian jurisdiction and you can take them to court to seek a remedy. I would not allow them to continue to blame "ATC problems" for the sequence of events which affected you. You are sueing not because your flight was late, but because the incompetence of their employees resulted in a significant disruption to your honeymoon.

You are entitled to reimbursement for any additional costs you incurred due to the delayed luggage. This includes the cost of purchasing additional clothing and toiletries. If you have receipts, you can claim any reasonable amount (Delta cannot legally impose an arbitrary limit).

I believe you also have a reasonable claim for the failure of the Rome to Valencia portion of the flight. Your entitlement under 261/2004 can be found here. As this was entirely within the EU, you may be able to write to Delta and/or Alitalia and demand your rights for this portion of the journey and the associated delays. There was no reasonable excuse for this delay and it amounts to a "denied boarding" or extended delay.

Your rights under 261/2004 are listed here. You might want to quote this regulation when you have an exchange with the supervisor, in relation to the specific problems you encountered in Rome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulat...g_or_refunding

If you get nowhere with Delta, who also operate a "refuse every claim" policy in the hope you will go away, with a standard canned response, I would encourage you to seek redress via the court. At least there you are guaranteed a sympathetic hearing. Delta's position that an ATC delay at the beginning of your journey indemnifies them from any liability for any subsequent service failure is legally nonsense and as usual, OUTRAGEOUS.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.o...urt_Addresses/

[kirb20]

Would I go through the American Court, or a Canadian Court? And when referring to 261/2004, does this apply? As it involves invalid tickets, would this count as denied boarding, or is it different? I am not sure if this statute would apply in this case.

[jimworcs]

You would sue in a Canadian Court as this is where you journey began and it is in this jurisdiction that you purchased the ticket. The small claims court link on the website I provided gives you advice and information on how to do this.

It is not a complicated as you may think. Read this...

http://www.airlinecomplaints.org/showthread.php?t=5672

As regards 261/2004, don't get hung up on detail. You had a booking for a flight from Rome to Valencia. The airline failed to deliver this at the time booked and in these circumstances the airline is responsible for your "care" and for refunding any additional expenses. On that basis.. you have a claim.

[kirb20]

Update - New correspondance. Seems like I am not getting any further:

Dear Ms. Kirby,

RE: Case Number 1478499

Thank you for writing and allowing me the opportunity to further review your concerns. On behalf of Delta Air Lines, I am genuinely sorry you were dissatisfied with my response.

I understand you feel I did not adequately address your concerns. I was happy to review your comments again to see if there was something I missed.

The gesture I extended was not meant to place a value on your experience; rather it was an attempt to make amends for your disappointment with our service. Also, the compensation provided to you and your husband is the maximum we provided in such circumstances.
Respectfully, additional considerations would not be due. While I certainly understand your wish to contact one of our senior officers, our Customer Care group has been designated to reply on their behalf. I am sorry to disappoint you, as I understand this is not the answer you were expecting.

Again, I apologize. Your support is important to us, and I thank you for your additional time and effort. We look forward to the privilege of serving your air travel needs again soon.

Sincerely,

Malcolm M. Pereira
Coordinator, Customer Care
Delta Air Lines/KLM Royal Dutch Airlines

Original Message Follows: ------------------------

Hello Malcolm,

While I appreciate your response, this offer of compensation is completely unacceptable to us.

While you can certainly allocate the initial error in Toronto to an ATC control issue, you can certainly not allocate the error regarding the tickets from Rome to Valencia to anything other than a direct error by a Delta employee, and this error alone cost us a full day of our trip.
Delta issued us tickets that were at no point valid tickets. You must
take responsibility for this portion at least.

I understand that further compensation may be out of your control, but I would ask to be put in touch with someone in a supervisory position so we may discuss this further.

I appreciate your quick response and look forward to further discussions with either you, or your supervisor.

Much appreciated,

Jennifer

[jimworcs]

I would sue, but you must decide if you can be bothered. The $100 would mean nothing to me.. as I would never fly Delta, but personallly I would go to Small Claims.

[kirb20]

I want to. But the whole thing is very daunting. I do not know if I need a lawyer, and if not, how to find the specific case law and clauses that would protect me. I feel like they will come in with a big lawyer and I will be blown out of the water.... Having said that, I am definitely still considering.

[jimworcs]

The system in small claims is designed to be able to proceed without a lawyer. You need to establish that Delta breached their contract with you and that they failed to make reasonable efforts to meet their obligations. The airlines rely on your fear. If you read many of the posts in here, you will find there is a pattern. They will make an offer just before you go into court. The worst that can happen is that you would lose. The cost of filing is small and you will at least have a sense of justice.

[The_Judge]

I am agreeing wholeheartedly with Jim. Delta isn't and never will take responsibility for anything they do wrong. It's amazing for me to see this now (the company backing the employee) as it never happened when I was employed with this monster. We were left blowing in the wind, the customer would hate us for following the rules and the company would break and offer what we couldn't in the field.

Your best chance is going to be small claims court. Keep all documentation, ie., receipts, tickets, baggage claims, correspondence, etc. and prepare your case. Delta has a history, it seems, of folding at the last minute and you may get a settlement before a court date. Show them you mean business and serve them with papers and maybe that'll wake them up. Best of luck and please come back here to update your progress.

[azstar]

Originally Posted by kirb20

I want to. But the whole thing is very daunting. I do not know if I need a lawyer, and if not, how to find the specific case law and clauses that would protect me. I feel like they will come in with a big lawyer and I will be blown out of the water.... Having said that, I am definitely still considering.

Airlines never send a representative to Small Claims Court. They will not show up, and you'll probably win by default.

[kirb20]

What sort of settlement would I be justified in asking for? The round trip tickets were $2100. If I asked for half of that (ie. the way there) and our associated costs (ie. the cab fare, the cost of the accomodations in Valencia we had paid for for those two days) would that be fair?

[kirb20]

Also, does anyone know how I would find out which Delta address to use on the documents?

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by kirb20

Also, does anyone know how I would find out which Delta address to use on the documents?

There is a member here, BCSH, that always seems to find the right one. I did find this one on their website. When you send the documents to sue them, make sure you send it registered with return receipt.

Appointments & Deliveries
If you have an appointment or are making a delivery at the Delta Headquarters, the physical address is:

Delta Air Lines, Inc.
1030 Delta Boulevard
Atlanta, GA 30320-6001

[kirb20]

Who would I address it to? Does it need to be a specific individual? Or just Delta Airlines

[The_Judge]

Did you click on the link provided by jimworcs earlier? It gives almost step-by-step instruction including how to find addreses and the correct name to sue. Please use the tools provided.

[kirb20]

I did click on the link, but it did not provide this information. One of the links was for the addresses of the Ontario courts, and another was to a thread where someone was describing their experience with taking Air Transat to small claims court. None of the links seemed to have the direct Delta information.

[The_Judge]

Yes....follow this man's advice. He is well versed in being a doofus and an *******. You really are an annoying little person, Cicero.

The link provided earlier by jimworcs has all the info you need to get started. You have to click other links such as this one.

[The_Judge]

Why did you have to edit your post? Did you spell "I" wrong?? Moron.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by Cisserro

You see what I mean Ms Kirby? This donkey Mr Doofus Judge is insisting that all the information is available on some site after you said you could not find it. You are asking pertinent questions as to who you should name and where you should serve the Defendant. Someone talked about breach of contract, but breach of contract is what is called a common law action while your claim should be worded such that it falls under the Montreal Convention. You are not allowed to bring a common law action where the Montreal Convention applies, otherwise your case will fall even before it starts and the airline will walk away laughing. If you want to listen to a so called Judge who got fired from his job at Northwest and ended up in Thailand living with a *****, so be it.

You've got some serious mental issues. This site can have you. I'm done with it. If you weren't such a condecending ****, you might be useful. And to presume you know about personal information and keep spreading lies is childish. But you can have it. I'm done with this board. Have fun.

[kirb20]

Judge, respectfully I disagree. I was asking for information on who I should address the legal papers to at Delta specifically, not where to find information on the Ontario court locations. None of the links dealt with this particular issue. Both the links from the previous posts, and the one you again referenced, did not pertain to this question.

I do appreciate your assistance and advice however.

[Butch Cassidy Slept Here]

The Ministry of the Attorney General of Ontario advises that claims may be filed, against a defendant…

“…where the party…carries on business…”

Accordingly you should file in the small claims court serving Pearson Airport (“YYZ”) As to where Delta should be served: Unless, like in the USA, Delta has a “legal process service address” in Ontario I would have Delta served at Pearson Airport.

A guide to filing a small claims action in Ontario can be found at:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.o...c/b4aClaim.asp

and,

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.o...a_Claim_EN.pdf


In addition you should consider mailing a complaint to the Canadian Transportation Agency (“CTA”) in Ottawa. Copies of all correspondence between you and Delta must be included with your complaint. The mailing address, and other contact information, for the CTA is at:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/doc.php?sk...ntact&lang=eng

Information as to what types of complaints the CTA will respond to is located at:

https://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/pta-atc/form_eng.cfm?Info


As a condition of doing business in Canada, Delta Air Lines, like any foreign corporation, must comply with the laws and regulations of the Governments of Canada and Ontario.

Finally, in the event you are successful in any court action or complaint with the CTA, Delta may try to avoid a cash settlement with you by offering flight vouchers. I would strongly advise against accepting such offers. This board has had more than one posting relating problems with using said vouchers. My opinion of flight vouchers is that, regardless of the airline, they’re not worth the paper they’re printed on.