[drmom]

Remember the Seinfeld soup nazi?? well jetBLUE seems to have taken his view of what service is.

I went to Vegas for a convention - got there Thursday night late, had meetings all day friday, a relaxing dinner then off to the airport for my red eye home to Boston. I knew I had a middle seat from check in - of course. But I bought a pillow, had my headset and ipod and planned to pop a sleeping pill when I got on.

As I boarded I took said pill. I walked down the aisle and there was this ENORMOUS guy - taking up his aisle seat and half of the seat next to him - armrest raised. Doom set in - yes of course it was my seat he was poaching. So I get to the row, point to my seat and say that I am next to him. He looks up at me like I am an invader and states that he has a bum leg. And I reply "whatever, you paid for one seat, I paid for a seat and mine is there". He finally gets up, I sit, putting the armrest down and proceed to get out my headphones....He takes a minute to talk to the flight attendant and then sits - spilling over and under the arm rest. That is when I am overwhelmed with the stench from him - I almost hurled my dinner - what, did his bum leg mean that he cannot shower either? Aren't there laws that you have to have SOME personal hygiene to fly? When the window seat occupant arrives and we stand, I walk over to the flight attendant and say that I am going to throw up if I am next to this person - he really stinks! She tells me to sit where I am assigned for now.

So I sit down, move as far away from gynormous smelly guy as I can - even with me making myself as small as possible, his enormous thighs are touching mine - half my seat is occupied by him. And I pull my sweatshirt over my mouth so that I can breathe without the urge to vomit.

Eventually there is a tap on my shoulder that seat 3E is available - fantastic - I get my stuff and walk forward - 3E is occupied. The flight attendant asks if I am looking for a space for my carryon - I reply no, I was told 3E was where I was to move to but it is taken - turns out it was 13E - ok. I go over, put my stuff in, and proceed to open the overheads - fairly full but I see space for my duffle. The flight attendant tells me snootily that the bins are full - I point and say there is space, and proceed to fit my bag and close the overhead - it is full so I have to use the usual force to get them closed.

The JetBlue ground guy (the one who tapped my shoulder to tell me of my new seat) asks if I am ok - and I say yeah - and then say that the guy just really smelled awful (health hazard bad). He then tells me he needs to speak to me off the plane. I am like what???? He says just for a minute, I can leave my stuff. So I go with him. He then starts berating me, telling me I cannot speak like that - accuses me of yelling....I stand there, agape, tired, and just take it in. He then tells me he needs to speak to the crew and makes me stay on the ramp.

He then tells me I AM NOT FLYING HOME!!!! WHAAAAT????? I am accused of slamming the overhead shut, and making a scene. WHAAAT??? and that the crew is uncomfortable with me being on board - me who is dying to go to sleep. I have kids at home, who expect me in the morning. now what??

I ended up sleeping in the airport and getting a United flight home via Denver, getting me to Boston at 4PM - I would have been home at 7:30AM


I was kicked off for complaining!!!!

On the ground when I told the guy that this horribly smelling guy was half way in my seat he responded that JetBlue does not have a policy of making people buy 2 seats - so I said instead you punish the person who is affected?

He used as defense the fact that no one else said anything - well DUH they were not next to him!

I did NOT make a scene, simply was trying to not get physically ill!

I am disturbed by all this. Do I have ANY rights??? Do we now have to just board planes, look down and not talk lest we are kicked off???


Their OWN contract of carriage states that they can refuse to transport someone with an offensive body odor!!!

But I was kicked off!!!!

Unsolicited, I heard from another passenger (a patient of mine who was on the flight) who as it turns out was right across the aisle from gynormous smelly guy and me. She asked me what happened? She thought the jetBlue FAs were horribly rude to me - she said she heard me ask to move and they told me to sit then turned around and rolled their eyes. Smelly guy did reek to everyone - the guy next to her was complaining to her!

She said I seemed a bit annoyed when I was told to sit down. She saw me close my eyes and put my headphones on clearly trying to zone out.

The next thing she said was - "my friend and I saw them take your bags and we were like huh????"

NO SCENE!!!

She laughed when I told her what they said to me. She said the only spectacle was when they took my bags off the plane and everyone wondered what was going on. She said that everyone was complaining to each other about the stench from this man.


JetBlue, after I pressed them, did refund that portion of my ticket but stands that the flight crew have final say period. They will not acknowledge any wrong doing, nor any misjudgment on their part. Gee I guess flight attendants never make mistakes.

If this is how the FAA rules work, then something needs to change. At WORST you could say I was snarky or rude - now that makes me a safety risk???? are you kidding me???

[jimworcs]

The airlines have become utterly unaccountable since de-regulation. The power to remove people who pose a safety risk is now abused to remove anyone the FA's take offense too, or who challenge the often unreasonable actions of staff. If you have ever seen Airline, it is not uncommon for a passenger making a complaint to be told that if they continue to complain, they will be removed from the flight. Equally, bogus safety concerns and security measures are used to justify the unjustifiable. The answer can only be in re-regulating the industry and that takes political action. After JetBlue kept some passengers hostage for over 8 hours (?), it was political action which forced the airlines to agree that they could not treat passengers in this manner. It will take similar concerted complaints and action before anything is done about this. Similar problems are occuring in Europe, particularly with airlines such as Ryanair.

[Jetliner]

I don't know about the first pots, but jimworcs you are wrong about Airline. There was one supervisor, Nicholas in Baltimore who was a bit obnoxious at times, but other than that they did not get told they would get removed just because they would complain. Those people were starting the yelling and cussing. Sorry, but when you get to that point, then damn right, you will be removed. Why? Simple. Once that plane takes off, you and everyone else are locked together with no outside help. If you are going to get irate over something on the ground, what's going to happen in the air? At that point there is no way for the crew to get outside help when someone crosses the line.

[rerere]

Well, it was rude of you to speak of that guy that way. Maybe he had a health condition.

[drmom]

Originally Posted by rerere

Well, it was rude of you to speak of that guy that way. Maybe he had a health condition.

If he had a health condition then he should have been isolated from others - that is the LAW.

and IF I was rude (again I have WITNESSES that say I was not) that is STILL not a reason to remove me from the plane!

Really??? you feel that if someone is snarky they cannot fly?

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by drmom

If he had a health condition then he should have been isolated from others - that is the LAW.

and IF I was rude (again I have WITNESSES that say I was not) that is STILL not a reason to remove me from the plane!

Really??? you feel that if someone is snarky they cannot fly?

What law is that exactly? I might become smelly and then I will be given my own area. One way to beat the system.

Not taking either side on the snarkiness (is that a word?) but if one becomes too snarky, they will be labeled "disruptive" and yes, they can be removed.

[drmom]

Originally Posted by The_Judge

What law is that exactly? I might become smelly and then I will be given my own area. One way to beat the system.

Not taking either side on the snarkiness (is that a word?) but if one becomes too snarky, they will be labeled "disruptive" and yes, they can be removed.

again, I was responding to the person who said it was rude of my to describe the other passenger like that. I described the situation pretty accurately - even had the person who was on the flight read it over.....

so hard to see how that was disruptive.

If a person has a medical condition that causes them to have an odor that is offensive they are supposed to be separated from other passengers. In fact it is even on the Jet Blue website IIRC. Since this happened a year and a half ago things might have changed. But yes, by law, if the odor is due to a legitimate medical condition then they need to be transported but apart from other passengers.

Just being odorous can get you NOT transported, or hosed down.

[The_Judge]

I can't find anything on their website. It may be there, I just didn't find it.

I still don't know what law/fed reg you are referring to. If a passenger is denied boarding because of his/her odor, I can smell (pun intended) lawsuit. This is discrimination. And where exactly could he/she be seated that is away from other passengers? That part is baffling to me. Other than the toilet, all seats are ajoining.

[rerere]

Originally Posted by drmom

If he had a health condition then he should have been isolated from others - that is the LAW.

and IF I was rude (again I have WITNESSES that say I was not) that is STILL not a reason to remove me from the plane!

Really??? you feel that if someone is snarky they cannot fly?

Yeah, well I still don't see why this is JetBlue's falt.

[drmom]

Originally Posted by rerere

Yeah, well I still don't see why this is JetBlue's falt.

opinions are like certain body parts. Everyone has one.

they were TOTALLY out of line. TOTALLY.

[jimworcs]

Judge,
Discrimination on what grounds? If someone has a very offensive body odour, I think it is reasonable to say that the discomfort to other passengers would require some action by the airline. In fact, I seem to remember an Airline episode where this very issue arose, and the passenger was disembarked, as to have a shower and given a Southwest Polo and flew later. Not discrimination unless it is on unreasonable grounds, such as age, disability, sexuality, race, gender, etc...

Dr Mom... will you ever get round to specifying what law you are talking about.... or are you just going to admit that there is no such law?

[rerere]

Originally Posted by drmom

opinions are like certain body parts. Everyone has one.

they were TOTALLY out of line. TOTALLY.

Yeah, but this could've happened with any airline, and they would've acted the same.

[Gromit801]

Originally Posted by rerere

Yeah, but this could've happened with any airline, and they would've acted the same.

Any your proof is....?

One of the things that earned me the big red banner, is recognizing we only ever get ONE side of the dispute in here. And those having a complaint will usually make themselves look great, peace loving, meek as a mouse, and the airline look bad. Human nature.

I've done enough flying to have watched passengers GO OFF over the slightest provocation. Maybe what the OP says is true, maybe it isn't. We don't know.

[The_Judge]

Originally Posted by jimworcs

Judge,
Discrimination on what grounds? If someone has a very offensive body odour, I think it is reasonable to say that the discomfort to other passengers would require some action by the airline. In fact, I seem to remember an Airline episode where this very issue arose, and the passenger was disembarked, as to have a shower and given a Southwest Polo and flew later. Not discrimination unless it is on unreasonable grounds, such as age, disability, sexuality, race, gender, etc...

Dr Mom... will you ever get round to specifying what law you are talking about.... or are you just going to admit that there is no such law?

Yes, it just happened last month again in Canada. You've inspired me to look around so I'll be back with my results later.......and on a personal note, good news for me. I think you know what I mean.

[azstar]

The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) prohibits public transport companies from discriminating against anyone for anything. The only exception is if their disability could be a safety issue. You cannot isolate, deny boarding, or in any way prevent a smelly person from sitting wherever they want on an aircraft. Period.

[jimworcs]

AZ
Being smelly is a disability under the ADA is it? Which clause? Is it the same one which allows Southwest to charge for a second seat for obese passengers? How is that not a disability under your somewhat fanciful definition. To put on an equal footing the challenges that people with significant impairments face and offensive body odour is a highly insulting definition and frankly outrageous.

The ADA defines “disability” as a “physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of the major life activities of such individual.”

Based on that, help me out and explain how having body odour substantially limits one or more of the major life activities of such individual. While you are at it, explain how being smelly is a physical or mental impairment.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the airlines are in any event exempt from the ADA and are instead covered by DOT rules relating to handling passengers with a disability. I would love to see the DOT definition of disability which includes having B.O.

This is a forum for passenger complaints and responses to them. Just making stuff up is a bit pointless AZ...

[azstar]

According to ADA, almost anything can be considered a disability. It doesn't have to be visible. The ADA is a blanket protection which prohibits airlines from discriminating in any way based on physical on mental capacity of the passenger. And, airlines are not exempt.

[jimworcs]

I have just given you the actual definition of a disability under the ADA... so what basis do you have for saying almost anything can be considered a disability? Back it up... provide some evidence..

[jimworcs]

Incidently, I believe it is the ACAA (Air Carriers access Act) which applies to airlines. Here is a clip from the FAA website relating to access to air services for people with disabilities. You will see that in fact, the definition of a disability is exactly the same as the ADA. Note the requirement that the impairment must substantially limit one or more major life activities.

In providing air transportation, an air carrier, including (subject to [49 U.S.C.] section 40105(b)) any foreign air carrier, may not discriminate against an otherwise qualified individual on the following grounds:
(1) The individual has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities.
(2) The individual has a record of such an impairment.
(3) The individual is regarded as having such an impairment.
AZ.. can we now debunk the myth that ANYTHING is a disability. It is rubbish..